Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Durwan Aug 08, 2014 15:23:06	Hi. So i might be gravely mistaken and hope for feedback, but humans seems to be incredible powerfull with +1 TO ALL ABILITIES. Ok so we can look at the luck of the halflings and the dwarfs +2 options that give you an easy solution on the hard to get 18 on level 1. But still if you stack them up in a points buy the +1 on all human atributes realy does make a big impact. If I do set up a basic human buy and then replace with a dwarf, i wold not be able to keep the specs up even with the extra points i could shave of where the dwarf bonuses went. So are there something realy special i dont see, or are the hunans just great, specisly in a point buy situation.
#2 kanageddaamen Aug 08, 2014 15:36:16	+1 to all humans are kinda meh.     You have to remember that in general, odd numbered stats are as good as the even numbered stat that are one less.  5th helps this a bit with the +1/bonus feats, but in general you can make better classes as some other race.   They are usually 2nd or 3rd best choice optimization wise for any given class.  Varient humans (with the free feat) are usually the most powerful of any class, but that wanes as you level.
#3 mellored Aug 08, 2014 16:01:56	kanageddaamen wrote:
#4 GladiusLegis Aug 08, 2014 16:30:37	Beyond your top 2, or maybe top 3 stats at best, the rest of the +1s are pretty much dead weight. It's really better just to go Variant Human if you're going to be a Human at all.
#5 mellored Aug 08, 2014 16:34:49	GladiusLegis wrote:
#6 Durwan Aug 08, 2014 23:44:33	Hm ok, am I doin it wrong somehow then since im new to this?   Take this cleric im building with heavy armour. Im looking at wis,str and con as its main atributes. So I looked at human and the 2 dward builds as the best options. To maximaze the output and my buy of 27 points I put the basic stats on odd numbers for the human so the +1 would get me up to one more modifyer. I did the same to the strengths of the dwarf traits. So I come to this:   Human: +1 to all Wis    15  cost 9 total 16 +3 STR  15  cost 9 total 16 +3 CON 13  cost 5 total 14 +2 CHA  10  cost 2 total 11 +0 Dex    9  cost 1 total 10 +0 Int      9  cost 1 total 10 +0     Hill dwarf: +1 to wis,  +2 con and +1 to hp each level(a bit like +3 to con) I lovered the con due to the +2 it reciees in addition to the +1 hp pr level so it maches the human. Also added the +1 wis, and had do drop dex/int. Wis   15  cost 9  total 16 +3 STR  16  cost 12 total 16 +3 CON 10  cost 2  total 12 +1 CHA 10  cost 2  total 10 +0 Dex    9  cost 1  total    9  -1 Int       9  cost 1  total    9  -1   Mountain dwarf: +2 str, +2 con. Got boosted by the nice +2 on str and +2 con, but even with that had a minor loss on dex/int due to lack of points. Wis   16  cost 12 total 16 +3 STR  14  cost 7  total 16 +3 CON 12  cost 4  total 14 +2 CHA 10  cost 2  total 11 +0 Dex     9  cost 1  total 9    -1 Int        9  cost 1  total 9    -1
(Reply to #6) reddaemon	Durwan wrote:
#8 Durwan Aug 09, 2014 1:34:39	Noted reddaemon. But looking beyond my calculation and writing flaws, i would love some feedback on the building of this clericand race :-)
#9 Thank_Dog Aug 09, 2014 6:58:22	Durwan wrote:
#10 Durwan Aug 09, 2014 10:25:35	I can understand to take the dwarf by the dwarf traits itself. Like darkvision and not to forget the ability to use a warhammer 1d8 instead of a 1d6 wep. But since people say that human are so far behind, ihope someone xan help me put me in the right direction :-)
#11 Mephi1234 Aug 09, 2014 10:38:42	Every (sub-)race has a favored class, when you get right down to it.    They are awesome at said class.  Not surprisingly, since they were literally made for that class.   Half-elf bard.   Tiefling warlock.   Wood Elf ranger.    Lightfoot halfing rogue.   Mountain dwarf fighter.       The human, meanwhile, is the best at extra stuff for any build you need.   Going MAD?   Have a feat hungry concept?   Humans are good for that too.
#12 Polaris Aug 10, 2014 15:26:59	Funny that the Tiefling was 'made' for the Warlock since the Half-Elf seems to be the better warlock hands down.   -Polaris
#13 Psikerlord Aug 10, 2014 15:48:16	Human is the best race with the free feat option, imo, and the +1 to two of yr choice.
#14 Polaris Aug 10, 2014 15:50:36	Psikerlord wrote:
#15 ppaladin123 Aug 10, 2014 17:33:47	Human can either get +2 in a primary ability by taking one of the "+1 and also you can do some cool stuff" feats (which is great for non-MAD classes like wizard) or take resilient to get another saving throw proficiency and a bit of a stat boost. That second option is great for paladins since they can pick up constitution save proficiency and they want a decent constitution score anyway. They are a strong choice for most classes and possibily the best for some.   If they were stuck with the +1 for all option, they'd be just average at everything.
#16 Kattahn Aug 12, 2014 7:46:32	the +1 option really shines in point buy's. Melee can snag 16 str/dex/con, casters can grab 16 caster/dex/con. Or, if you want to keep everything at positive bonuses, you can do any setup of 16/16/14/10/10/10. The feat humans, taking a +1 to stat feat @ lvl 1, can be 16/16/14/10/10/8, but can't triple 16 anything.   I've found myself using a good mix of both normal and variant human in my testing.   Also, hello again Polaris and Mellored!
#17 Lawolf Aug 12, 2014 9:34:38	kanageddaamen wrote:
#18 mellored Aug 12, 2014 10:12:13	Kattahn wrote:
#19 Thank_Dog Aug 12, 2014 15:42:46	Once people start planning characters with point-buy and feats, the +1 to all stats human will take precedence. I'm telling you this because I have seen the future and it's filled with +1's.
#20 Polaris Aug 12, 2014 16:08:30	Thank_Dog wrote:
(Reply to #19) canamrock	Thank_Dog wrote:
#22 Thank_Dog Aug 12, 2014 18:41:23	You're both so wrong. You'll see. I merely want to state this unequivocally for posterity so that I can point back to it and say, "Told you so."