Is a party of warlocks viable, assuming some dipping into other classes?
What might you see as some of the advantages or disadvantages? And how might the disadvantages be mitigated?
Warlocks are an extremely versitbile class. Warlocks can do melee with the right build, they can cast more spells, or even make good scouts. I see a few advantages to a party:
- Imagine if everyone in the party could see through darkness to 120', and could potentially cast it.
- Warlocks gain back most of their spells and abilities after a short rest, which means more encounters per day and less need for long rests.
- Imagine if everyone in the party could cast disguise self at will. It would actually be pretty cool for a city adventure.
There are however a few big disadvantages that come to mind. But they would lack any kind of healing for the group.
One fun thing either way would be coming up with cool backstory or reason for them to be together.
What are your thoughts on a party of them? Or would they make better npcs or villians?
~imaginary
A party of all warlocks is very viable. You don't need to multiclass but it certainly opens up additional options. The first question is do you want to multiclass? A fighter, cleric, and rogue splash in the mix kind of enabled you to a rather classically balanced party.
Avoiding MC still allows healing via the healer feat and store potions, and short rests. Extra temp hp can be available with inspiring leader but considering the everyone in the party already has the fiend patron option and/or armor of agathys and/or fiendish vigor options it becomes less important to add more temp hp that won't stack. Unless the group doesn't want to take those.
If the group is all going with the darkness / devil's sight combo then the advantage gained will give great damage early going with heavy weapon master on blade warlocks. You'll have to cut back that option against others who can see through magical darkness so someone going chain for chains of carceri and picking up banishment are good ideas. The chain familiar makes a decent scout so that will help, and someone would likely want a criminal or urchin back ground for thieves' tools proficiency.
Ideally, I think one chain, one tome, 2 blade plus feats and backgrounds covers you rather well.
2 cp anyway. I might need more thought when I'm more awake. 
Healer feat will help.
Also this party composition will work far better in a setting where potion shops do exist, even if it is just the alchemy basic healing potion...
You know, you will be about as potion dependent as a Witcher.
But yeah, it would be awesome if you guys work together.
What they said.
Warlocks are plenty versitile, and you can adjust with feats.
one of the drawback that I can see is some item you find in AD will be utterly useless to the party (splintmail+1), and some item (rod of the pact keeper) might be desire by the entire party but only one is available.
So magic item distribution might cause additional tension.
QwertyAzerty wrote:
I'll just say that on the thematic front, an entire party of warlocks all sworn to the same patron (or at least to allied patrons) could provide a cool campaign.
You can always have dwarf warlock who uses armors, so the splint mail can be put to good use. Party of warlocks is not only good, but actually broken if abused.
Lore Bard 6/Life Cleric 2/Blade Warlock 12 with aura of vitality - dedicated healer, debuffer and still a mean beatstick with a heavy weapon in hand.
Fighter 2/Tome Warlock 7/Dragon Sorcerer 11 - Ritualist and Artilery.
Blade Warlock 5/Swashbuckler Rogue 15 - Sneak attacker, infiltrator, skill monkey and party face (not that the rest are not).
Chains Warlock 5/Ancients Paladin 12/Champion Fighter 3 - Another heavy weapon master and nova dps, best anti-fireball aura in the game.
At that point, your only problem will be keeping enemies from running away.
Having party members with the right Backgrounds would also be important.
You'd want a Criminal, or some other background with Thieves' Tools proficiency.
The Outlander background is key for wilderness survival.
The Noble or Guild Craftsman backgrounds can both provide political connections if needed. Otherwise, they're optional.
The term "viable" implies that the party might be not "viable", as in unable to handle challenges thrown at it.
5e's done a great job of making most classes capable of handling most challenges, just by adjusting their tactics.
For instance, warlocks generally aren't good in melee (though a multiclass or Moderately Armored bladelock, especially a Fiend bladelock, bucks that trend), so you might legitimately worry about what to do if big beefy monsters get close. But, unless you're holding territory, you won't need to fight in melee - keep your distance and concentrate fire with Eldritch Blasts instead. And if you do need to hold territory - such as to keep that big beefy monster away from civilians - overlapping Repelling Blasts can accomplish that while racking up plentiful damage.
Similarly, you and others have mentioned the lack of healing. That is an issue, yes, but if you play your cards right (especially with Fey or Old One trickery spells), you can prevent yourself from being hit at all. And remember that you can spam False Life to buffer up some HP between fights if you want to act as a frontliner (i.e. a Fiend bladelock).
All of this is before you consider feats, multiclassing, or your actual spells to round out the options, or what to do outside of the Combat pillar.
Basically, if you stop thinking in terms of the "Fighting Man, Magic-User, Priest, Thief" boxes, and consider alternative tactics, you'll quickly see that most party compositions are indeed quite "viable".
I want to play in this campaign. Require a minimum of 3 levels in warlock for each character.
I suspect a party of Warlocks would be just fine.
I suspect a party of Clerics, Rogues, Bards etc would be fine too.
That said, I would find it boring to play a character who has the same abilities as the rest of the party, regardless the class.
Treantmonklvl20 wrote:
I'm still trying to figure out how to solve the healing problem in a party full of warlocks.
In another forum, I thought I read that if a warlock multi-classes with another spell class, they gain access to the spells that class would provide, and can cast them using their warlock spell slots. So for example, multi-classing with a bard 1/warlock 10 would allow the warlock to cast the cure wounds spell for example at level 10, twice per short rest. Would this be correct?
The Healing feat that was suggested by Ashrym and other is also a great option. And of course, temp hps are a great option for mitigating damage, almost as good as healing. Other thoughts welcome.
FactOfFiction wrote:
Another source of temp HP would be the Inspiring Leader feat. It's not a typical choice for Warlocks, but since they're Charisma based casters, Warlocks get more out of this feat than most.
This would basically function like the Fiendish Vigor Invocation for the entire party, although once the temp HP reached 9 or higher it would be even better than that.
Viable? Borderline broken.
5 warlocks, all with Eldritch blast, agonizing blast, devils sight, and some way of casting Darkness.
It would be a blood bath. probably pretty boring after awhile, but a bloodbath none the less.
imaginari wrote:
JackOfAllTirades wrote:
Coredump00 wrote:
imaginari wrote:
Coredump00 wrote:
I feel like the hardest part is defining "Viable". A combat heavy campaign where fighting a series of orc raids who are assaulting a fleeing caravan refugee fleet would be very different from a political intruge game where subterfuge is key because a two magic weapons, an imp and a guy with a few more cantrips and is the Ritual master is not gonna help when you bust into a fight during an open court of the local nobility and his guards descend upon you. I believe the Warlock can either be the most flexible casting class or the least flexible casting class depending how often the party uses their spell slots and how much short rests go around.
That said, i would love to see a kind of Jim Butcher dresden files novel "Skin Game" heist styled campaign where you have a bunch of Warlocks coming together to steal from a Diety's vault, and their patrons all have an agreement/grudge against the target.
Thanks all for the feedback and ideas. You've convinced me that indeed a party of all warlock could be viable, but also interesting and fun. My interest in exploring this concept came out of two desires. I was trying to think of a party that won't be dependent on long rests, which in my mind can be a big limiting factor to play. And I wanted to create a team who’s abilities would synergies well, for example the darkness + devil's sight. Warlocks are also quite versitile as a class, and might actually be able to pull off a relatively homogenous class party.
Which leads me to my next question. I’ve now started thinking about what the individual party members might looks like, and how they could work together to overcome some of their homogeny. What do you think would make for a cool party of warlocks?
FactOfFiction above had some great ideas to start with. Here are the rules that I’m setting up for myself:
Rules
- Come up with a party of 4-6 members
- Max level of 8 for each member (though assume the characters would continue to advance)
- Multi-classing is okay, but Warlock needs to be the primary class
- Race can be anything
- Each member should have the Devil’s Sight invocation for the combo with Darkness to work
If you’d like to suggest characters, builds, or an entire party, list the following information for each member:
Characters
- Role (general role in the party)
- Class/Level (& starting class)
- Race
- Primary Stats
- Patron (Archfey, Fiend, or Great Old One)
- Pact Boon (Chain, Blade, or Tome)
- Invocations
- Feats
- Primary Prof
- Background (if important)
- Cool Factor/Flavor (if any)
- Optimizations
For example, so far I’ve created one character:
Role: Eldritch Sniper & Scout
Class: Rogue 2/Warlock 6+ (starting Rogue)
Race: Human
Primary Stats: Dex, Chr
Patron: Archfey
Pact Boon: Chain
Invocations: Devil’s Sight, Agonizing Blast, Repelling Blast
Feats: Spell Sniper, Alert
Primary Prof: Stealth, Perception
Background: Soldier (scout in an army)
Cool Factor: You’ll never see him or catch him while he pelts you with eldritch arrows. His rod is shaped more like a bow, and his blasts take the form of shadowy arrows that burn and vanish after impact.
Optimizations: The dip into Rogue is mainly for Cunning Action, which let’s him stay out of combat and keep mobile. But it also gives him enhanced stealth and perceptions skill. Unfortunately his sneak attack ability goes to waste. His invisible flying Imp familiar makes a great scout and can also see in Darkness. His Archfey patron is primarily for the Greater Invisibility spell access, but he could just as easily go with The Great Old Ones as telepath would make pretty awesome party communication method. His perception expertise and Alertness could also be a boon to a party without any Wisdom. Other than that, he’s mainly focused on being a crack ranged attacker, whether from hiding or long range. And his repelling blast both keeps enemies away, and gives some battlefield control. If you’re shooting out of a darkness sphere, do you have advantage against someone who is outside of it? Do you qualify as hidden if they can’t see you, even if you don’t take the hide action?
What do you think of the above character, how might you improve him? What other ideas do you have for members of a warlock party?
~imaginari
p.s. Here’s a blank one for easy copying and pasting:
Role:
Class:
Race:
Primary Stats:
Patron:
Pact Boon:
Invocations:
Feats:
Primary Prof:
Background:
Cool Factor:
Optimizations:
FatherLiir wrote:
JackOfAllTirades wrote:
JackOfAllTirades wrote:
Kremlin_KOA_02 wrote:
Oooh! I wanna build one too! How about a meat-shield Warlock?
Role: Front Line Fighter
Class: Fighter 3(Battlemaster)/Warlock 5+
Race: Variant Human
Primary Stats: STR, CHA
Patron: Fiend
Pact Boon: Blade
Invocations: Devil's Sight, Thirsting Blade, Agonizing Blast
Feats: Polearm Master, Sentinel
Primary Prof: Athletics, Intimidate
Background: Outlander
Cool Factor: Stands out on the front lines, coldly waiting for the enemies to come, just daring anyone to attack him. Just try and see what happens. Ans if you don't want ot attack, heal make sure you pay.
Optimizations: A slightly shrunk version of the suggested multiclass on the Warlock Guide. Primary goal of the build is to get all the enemies focus on the Bladelock, while the other Warlocks snipe beyond their reach.Just enough Fighter to get those sweet Superiority Dice, along with Action Surge, Second WInd, Heavy Armor Prof.,and Great Weapon Fighting. Manuvers are Distracting Strike, Goading Attack, and Menacing Attack, designed to screw with the opponents ability to challenge the party, and making it more vunerable. Not as focused on dealing direct damage, to the point that Armor of Agathys and Arms of Hadar usually take precedent over Hex in spell slots. Glaive gives the Bladelock increased range with the melee weapon, and also combos well with Polearm Master and Sentinel. Outside of combat, would function as the big, strong guy, ready to break down doors and "convince" people to listen to the party
First time I've attempted optimization builds, so ready for any advice.
There was some discussion right after release that a party of Bard/Warlocks in varying combinations could be a very powerful party... Pact blade/valor melee type, book/lore for skill monkey, 3 lock/17 bard support+healing, 3 bard/17 lock blaster... The entire archetypical party (all with brutal eldritch blast combat options at the least) together in one high-charisma package
Estralita your combo really needs warcaster. Unless you want to lose Arms of Hadar, or the Glaive.
Glaive being a 2h wep you can't cast somatic component spells with it. (versatile weps like quarterstaff get around that.)
Also Agonizing Blast is kinda useless for your build. As the ront line tanky guy, Eyes of the Runekeeper would let you read any writing in a dunbgeon, or Otherworldly Leap might hepp you get into the fight faster.
In higher magic games don't bother putting too much into Str and just use gauntlets of Ogre Might/Belts of Giant Strength.
Other than that, a retributive tank is interesting, invest in many potions
OOh, I just realized, that particular fighterlock build combos very well with a Deep Gnome Abjurer Wizard.
As Armor of Agathys is seriously multiplied by someone providing extra ablative HP to the Fighterlock so it goes off more times before collapsing
Kremlin_KOA_02 wrote:
eldrich blast isn't high damage. it's mid tier. Above other casters but below fighters and barbarians. along with paladins and rogues.
much of the warlocks power still resides in his spells. lobbing 10+ or so fireballs a day
mellored wrote:
FrogReaver wrote:
Kremlin_KOA_02 wrote:
Estralita wrote:
OP:
A Warlock party that has each member optimized for a different role should do fine.
Bard'lock: Anything you can do I can do ... maybe not better but I can do it too !
I think it could be a lot of fun to play in an all-Warlock group where everybody has the same Patron (but not necessarily the same Pact). With proper fluff, you can have Sith Empire enforcers. Or you could totally mess with a Rage of Demons campaign !
A Rogue'lock can both sneak and talk his way out of trouble.
Here is a quick warlock concept inspired by many of the suggestions above.
Role: Healer/Utility
Class: Bard 2/Warlock 6+
Race: Human
Primary Stats: Chr, Dex
Patron: Great Old One
Pact Boon: Tome
Invocations: Devil's Sight, Agonizing Blast, Book of Ancient Secrets
Feats: Healer, Inspiring Leader
Primary Prof: Medicine, Persuasion
Background: ?
Cool Factor: When a song get stuck in your head and you can't forget it, you might wonder where you heard it last. But sometimes it is someone else who puts the song or poem there. I might hear poetry or lyrics on a beautiful day, or in the middle of a bloody battle. Yet the sounds never get drowned out by the clashes and yelling of battle, because it is not through my ears that I hear them.
Optimizations: Since warlocks in general lack much healing ability, this character tries to help maintain the health of the party as best she can. Inspiring Leadership provides temp hit point all around every rest, and the healer feat helps provide some extra HP out of combat. Song of Rest also helps with a few HP between rests, though I'm not totally sure if it is worth the second level? With the Bard levels, she can select the Cure Wounds or Healing Words spells, and can then cast them with her Warlock spell slots at her Warlock's level every short rest. However the more levels of Bard the character takes, the more diminishes the effectiveness of the warlock spell slots for healing, so finding the right balance is a change. When she is not healing, she is throwing her eldritch blast at ranged to support the other characters, and her numerous cantrips can help in the odd cases they are needed. With 3 levels of Bard, she chould get more skills and more spells, but she would have to trade off her warlock powers, spells and level. What do you think is the right balance?
BRJN wrote:
The PCs are pawns - of course - of a Greater Power, who is involved in a chess-like game using living 'pieces'. GP and his Rivals are trying to gain advantage in the politics of the Hells (or wherever - the patron could equally be a Yugoloth) via resources collected in the Natural World. The PCs get sent on missions to help their Patron directly, or to hurt a Rival's pawns.
You get sent on a caravan raid and told to be sure to destroy any wagon with a -merchant house's- symbol with acid not fire; you are not told why - you have no need to know, but the impressive explosion suggests your patron does in fact care about your welfare ... I think?