We are all lvl 3 in our little group of 5 players and we are all new players.
I have no idea what the other class can do (iam a sorcerer) but they do A LOT more dmg then i do.
- My Fire Bolt does 1d10 (i have other spells i know, but thats the most used spell atm)
- Our Fighter does at least 1d10+8 dmg every time (with a shild and sword)
- Our Pala does 3d10 with a spell (he broke his Oath or something..but he didnt do anything for it)
- Our Druid is pretty useless infight. Maybe you can give him some tips
- And our range does 1d8+6 and 1d8 if the target is wounded.
So my Questions:
Are these classes so strong or do they "cheat".
And if they are so strong how do that work
..or iam just whining?
I hope you can help me out.!
(Sry for my bad english)
No, that's not quite correct.
Your Firebolt is a Cantrip. That's your fallback attack, filler to be used when you don't want to use a spell. It does 1d10 now, and at level 5, goes to 2d10. And it continues in that trend.
At lv6, you can add +Charisma Modifier damage to your damage rolls with all spells of your selected damage type (Assuming you went Dragon Sorcerer). So whether it's Fireball doing 8d6+Charisma Modifier, or Firebolt doing 2d10+Charisma Modifier. If you went with another Sorcerer option, such as Favored Soul or Wild Magic, you do not get to add your Charisma modifier to it.
I don't know how your Ranger is doing +6. He should be doing his Dexterity modifier damage, which is likely 3 or 4 right now. He may be using Hunter's Mark, which is a spell, allowing him to deal another 1d6. Or he has a magical item, perhaps Bracers of Archery.
Your Oathbreaker Paladin is likely using Inflict Wounds. That's 3d10 Necrotic damage. It's a lv1 spell that Oathbreakers get. However, he has fewer spell slots than you do. You should be able to cast more spells than him in a day.
Your Fighter is doing +8? I don't know how he has a 1d10 weapon AND is using a shield. He should be having a Longsword, which does 1d8, or a similar weapon (one handed weapons typically cap out at 1d8 damage). He should be adding his Strength modifier, which should be 3 or 4, assuming 16 (3) or 18 (4) Strength. These numbers stay the same even if he's using a Finesse weapon like a Rapier which allow him to attack with Dex and not Strength.
What might be happening with the Fighter and Ranger is they're using their attack bonus for damage rolls. That's wrong. For example, your Ranger. Their proficiency bonus should be +2, and assuming +2 Dexterity, that means for his attacks that he is rolling 1d20+4. This is to see if he hits his target. Let's assume he took the Archery Fighting style and is using a bow. This grants him an additional +2. So now it's 1d20+6. Again, this is only for accuracy against his target. For damage, he should only be doing +2 (assuming 14 Dex). He shouldn't be adding on any damage from having Archery Fighting Style, or from his proficiency bonus.
Okay thx you!
Maybe i have to talk with my GM.
You are right, warrior does 1d8+8
The Pala can use that 4 times before short / long rest (not sure) like me, or am i wrong?
Welcome to the game!
pyramid1908 wrote:
How were ability scores distributed? Did your group use a dice rolling method? If you used point buy, did your group allow for more points? I'm suspecting something other than the norm, as there seems to be higher than average damage values than should be expected otherwise.
The biggest red flag here is the fighter. There's simply no way I could reach that number for all attacks under any reasonable interpretation. Even assuming they somehow started with a 20 in Strength or Dexterity, the most I could get is +7, which includes +5 from Strength/Dexterity and +2 from the Duelist combat style. They might pull off such numbers with a 16 strength/dexterity and the Charger feat, though only situationally. If it's not that, there's either some funny math going on here, or the fighter's got some extra help with magic items and such to help them out.
The ranger's damage seems more plausible, but again, higher than what's expected from standard point buy at that level. Assuming a starting STR/DEX of 18, they're able to dole out such damage with the Duelist combat style easily.
Aside from these two things, I can't really say if anything else is out of line or not.
Thats what i thought about! Thx guys..
I think they added the str. and dex. mod to the normal dmg.
How often can the pala use his 3d10 (i dont have the playerbook atm 
)
Is there any good way the tell them that they are playing "wrong"? I dont wanna be the "spoilsport?" guy...
pyramid1908 wrote:
OK, in light of the strange way people build characters, please allow me to help out a bunch of people so you guys can have some basic readiness.
First of all, if you have two light weapons, you can dual wield, even without any special class or feat abilities. Daggers, Rapiers, and Scimilars are light weapons. The penalty for two weapons is written as follows:
Two-W e a p o n F ig h t in g
When you take the Attack action and attack with a light
melee weapon that you’re holding in one hand, you can
use a bonus action to attack with a different light melee
weapon that you’re holding in the other hand. You don’t
add your ability m odifier to the damage of the bonus
attack, unless that modifier is negative.
If either weapon has the thrown property, you
can throw the weapon, instead of making a melee
attack with it.
ok, so look at all the simple weapons that have the light modifier. My wizard dual wields daggers. He has a 12 dexterity, which is +1 to hit on both attacks. With a proficiency bonus of +2, thats +3 to hit on both attacks, and +1 damage on one of them. 2d4+1 damage, with range. He can also magic missile and automatically hit, for 3d4+3. That's a damage range of 6-15.
Now, looking at the rogues and rangers, they might have a 15 dexterity, 16 or 17 after racial modifiers. That's +3. Using d6 light weapons, two attacks through two weapon fighting, thats
2d6+3 damage, which is a damage range of 5-15, and +5 to hit on each attack.
A Warrior type, like a Fighter or Barbarian, might have a Two handed Weapon. That does 2d6 damage. Adding their Strength modifier from a 16 or 17 stength, is +3,
that's one attack at +5 to hit, but again, 2d6+3 damage, with a range of 5-15.
A ranger with their first spell at level 2 or 3, might have a spell up that grants +1d6 damage for an hour, that's like the whole battle. Even using a short bow, that's 2d6+3...again.
A rogue might sneak attack with a finesse weapon, dealing 1d6+3 from a 16 dexterity, +1d6 from their sneak attack, yielding 2d6+3.
Anyone else noticing this pattern? 15 damage can be produced pretty reliably at levels 1-3.
Now, cranking it up, if you had a human fighter with a 16 strength, and they had a two handed weapon and took the two handed weapon feat, they could sacrifice a 5 point attack penalty, bringing their bonus from +5 to +0, but if they hit, they score +10 damage. Now they have 2d6+13 (25 max), with about a 25-40% chance of hitting, but if you have a Bard in the group, they can add d6 to that attack roll, roughly negating the -5 penalty about 2/3rds of the time. The bard can do this in addition to attacking with cantrips or physical attacks, etc.
Now lets assume you actually rolled for your stats, you have a base of 18. You take a racial trait, +2, bam, you are at 20. alternatively, you take a human, 18, +1, makes 19, and then take one of the feats: 20 stat plus side bonuses. Your bonus to hit is now +7.A Fighter can take two weapon fighting and add their +5 damage bonus from their relavant stat. Now you have 2d6+10 per round with +7 to hit.(22 max).. at level 1. Alternatively, you could take Dueling, since a shiled is 'no other weapon', get your +2 ac from shield, +2 from dueling, and +5 from your 20 stat, giving you 1d8+7 with +7 to hit. Again, you are back down to 8-15 damage, but with a really good chance of hitting and probably nice armor class.
Did anyone remember that rogue weapons are usually light? Yeah, so you could totally do a backstab for 2d6+3, but with a 20 stat, its 2d6+5, but with a second weapon, you can follow up with another d6, so you are now at 3d6+5 (23 max)
We don't really need to go into what happens if you play a conjurer wizard and stare at various inspiring substances for weaponized conjurations like acid and molten gold, which then disappears after the interaction with melting enemy faces damages it. We just need to remember 10 lbs of acid is alot of acid.
pyramid1908 wrote:
shintashi wrote:
Tempest/bid - i think i was addressing a bigger issue with character generation i saw at my last session. Lots of people are building lame duck characters that can't survive a battle against anything above challenge rating 0. Even when I lowered the AC of a few goblins from 15 down to 12, my new players were hopelessly outclassed, averaging 4 damage every other round, the almighty 7hp goblins just slaughtered them. I mean, sure, coddle them, treat them like special snow flakes, but holy hell, when do we as DMs get to see real heroes step up to the plate? I never thought I would have to say "Please don't write your character sheet in ink..." again until last week. "no, your AC of 18 does not make you invincible.." to which the player basically responded "yes it does! AC 18 is awesome!" before they died.
So now we have a sorcerer who's main attack is a cantrip that misses half the time. That's the real issue of this thread right? Fire Bolt, averages 5 damage on a d10. If it misses half the time, the OP is doing 2.5 damage per round, meaning it will take them 6 rounds to take out one Orc. And the OP is wondering 'why are all the other characters doing so much damage?" and cites
- Our Fighter does at least 1d10+8 dmg every time (with a shield and sword)
possible with a +1 weapon, 20 str/dex, and duelist. Also possible with a belt of strength.
- Our Paladin does 3d10 with a spell (he broke his Oath or something..but he didnt do anything for it)
inflict wounds isn't a traditional paladin spell, it is a cleric spell, but as you say they broke their oath, so they get inflict wounds and can do 3d10 damage, as outlined on page 97 of the DMG.
Oath Breaker is a special "4th" category of paladin, which i know nothing about. In older editions, it used to be really easy to fall from grace. You could walk up to some bar maid at 1st level, and in the first five minutes, say some Gamergate stuff and lose your Paladinhood. According to the DMG "
A paladin must be evil and at least 3rd level to become an Oathbreaker"
I'm guessing your paladin was playing an evil guy the whole time and was waiting for 3rd level to get their new class options.
- Our Druid is pretty useless infight. Maybe you can give him some tips
give him either a wooden shield or two scimitars. Have them memorize spike growth in dungeon halls, centering the AOE between your party and the monsters, and the druid will yield up to 16d4 damage to every creature that crosses. This is particularly useful in the low level starter dungeons.
- And our ranger does 1d8+6 and 1d8 if the target is wounded.
Rangers do 1d8 for a bow, +1 if they have an enchanted bow, +5 if they rolled an 18 and took a +2 dex modifier. Hunter's Mark also adds +1d6. If the Ranger has 1 level of rogue, and you are within 5 ft of the enemy they are shooting at, they can tack on their 1d6 sneak attack to their 1d8 base. At 3rd level, a ranger can get +1d8 damage for wounded targets, it's a basic class ability. The +6 must be coming from somewhere, the question is where.
shintashi wrote:
is the OPs stat high enough to make it hit? i had a player last week with a breath weapon as a dragon born, but he actually put constitution as his lowest stat, so his DC to save was like 8+2-1, i.e., 9 DC, instead of ya know, 8+2+3 to 5, i.e. 13-15 DC.We used to be able to rely on people properly placing their stats, but perhaps too much fear of min maxing has produced habits that are incapable of handling standard encounters in modules.
Okay Thats a lot of information and thx to all of you!
(as an example
Warrior:
1d8+4 - (with 17str and enh. weapon +1) - and another 4 to hit the target (d20)
Me:
1d10 - ((lowest) fire bolt + no extra dmg befor lvl 6) - and 5 to hit the target (d20) from cha (3) and prof (2)
And so on..
..or do i misunderstand something completly wrong?
What you need to take into account pyramid1908 is the following.
Firstly early on castor's have it hard due to lack of spells and find them selfs stuck using cantrips. As for Firebolt yes its 1d10 with out a mod till 6 but you have the bonus of it being Ranged and Magical as i am guessing that the whole group does not have magical items.
But lets compair your capability to that of a 6 level fighter.
Fighter
1d8+5+1 x2 due to extra attack so average 20-22 damage if both attacks hit double that if he action surges and both hit.
Sorcerer
2d10+5 x2 due to fact you could twinspell or quickcast so average 18-22 and thats your cantrip.
Fireball
8d6+5 so its a massive aoe and on average it deals 29+ damage if they don't save and half if they do so at this point you walk into a room with 10+ guys knowing that this is probly the big bad boss fight, fireball quickspell fireball thats 60+ damage you can deal to the whole room if they fail there saves if not its just mop up duty for the fighter who was standing there jaw gaping open thinking lets not upset this guy.
Also some dm's are open to players crafting magical items and in that respect if yours is one of them then suggest this.
Rod of the pact keeper is a warlock weapon but there is no reason you could not make a version of this for your castor within reason due to the fact warlocks can recover any level slot with this since they only get 2-4 slots total that is why your's would probly be limited like this.
Staff Of Dragon's Might +1
This staff grants a bonus of +1 to saves and attack rolls of your spells, Once per a day as an action you can regain 1 spell slot of 3rd level or lower. (bare in mind a +2 version may grant 4-5th and +3 6-7th)
As in the item crafting section an uncommon magic item can have up to a 3rd level spell inside it.
As for crafting since it gives you a slot most dm's rule in the creation you have to give up 1 slot per day in the creation of the magical item just like you would if you wanted to make a wand that casts a spell for you. but you can reduce the time if there are other castors in the group and they help you and a good dm does have some downtime so players can craft. but it all depends on the dm.
ah sorry
What i did was worked out average damage based of Max capability by level6 using a standard array and on the pretense all the attacks hit as that is just random and it was damage you was mainly talking about.
thus why i used +5 from modifier as by level 6 you can get a +5 if your min/max and it sound like you guys arnt but its easy to compair based off a maxed version of the character for that level.
what i was trying to get across to you may be weaker now but as it goes on you will overtake him in leaps and bounds and you always have the fact that your more versatile than him due to ranged, magic, and the sheer number of utility your spells can bring. So stop worrying and just enjoy the story as combat is not everything.
jaappleton wrote:
Mazoshi wrote:
pyramid1908 wrote:
pyramid1908 wrote:
An Oathbreaker Paladin using Inflict Wounds is screwing himself. Badly.
Lv. 3 attack (16 STR, longsword) + 1st-level Smite = 1d8 +3 + 2d8 = 16.5
1st-level Inflict Wounds = 3d10 = 16.5
Same raw damage ... but the Smite can be hit-confirmed. Inflict Wounds cannot. There's a reason I rated it red in my paladin guide.
GladiusLegis wrote: