Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 PhyrexianKitsune Dec 15, 2014 15:58:09	As the title asks. A concept that often pops up in other editions is a necromanticly inclined bard. Sometimes refered to as "dirge bards" or "dirgesingers" they are still bards, but are focused on composing funeral balids, dirges and songs related to death....in short, they are the emos of the bard world. However, with an intrest in death also, usually, comes the aqusition of some necromantic magics and skills. In past editions, this would usually take the form of songs that could animate the dead as well as acssess to a limited selection of necromancy spells and the ability to buff the undead. However, in 5e there is yet to be a "dirge" college for bards, and there may never be one, but after looking at the Lore college I started thinking that maybe I could pull off a simmilarly fluffed character using the crunch of the lore college to pick up the undead animation spells I'd need to see the idea fully realized. The character would take both animate dead and create undead with the lore college, and if he could spair the room maybe a single necrotic damage effect or the spell death ward as well. He'd not be focused on offensive necromancy casting, though. Rather, he would be more of a support character who's intrest in death and undeath would take the form of magics that "undo" death rather then deal it I.E. healing, ressurection effects and undead animation. He may still have the odd necrotic spell for fluff, but it's not nessicary in the end and would just be icing on the cake.     Anyway, with all that said, would a "animatior bard" like this be viable? Would create undead and animate dead be worthwhile to grap with a lore bard or not? Any thoughts/opinions would be welcome!
#2 mellored Dec 15, 2014 16:17:10	Animate dead is a good choice for bards. Hold person followed by a horde of skeletons for lot's of damage.
#3 PhyrexianKitsune Dec 15, 2014 16:24:33	Would picking up Create Undead at higher levels be worth it as well? Also, what, if any, non-animation necromancy spells do you suggest?
#4 mellored Dec 15, 2014 16:26:58	more undead is still good. Circle of death is a nice big AoE.
#5 Ashrym Dec 15, 2014 17:06:32	Between necromancy spells on the bard list an magical secrets the lore bard can have half the known spells as necromancy spells and fill the rest in thematically. Blindness as a second level spell is the first necromancy spell available at 3rd level, bestow curse and speak with dead become available at 5th level, and extra secrets opens up 2 more necromancy spells at 6th level so 4 decent spells will be known. I think speak with dead is fun to go with them.
#6 PhyrexianKitsune Dec 15, 2014 18:43:44	Good to know that the Necromancy bard is certainly a viable option. Would it be worth using extra secrects to pick up a necromancy cantrip, just to have a spammable necromancy option or would that be a waste in your opinion?
#7 Ashrym Dec 15, 2014 19:42:41	The options are spare the dying or chill touch.  Chill touch is twice the damage and range of vicious mockery, prevents healing, and has a minor benefit against undead. It's not a bad choice for secrets.
#8 Ath-kethin Dec 16, 2014 5:55:27	Viable in what circumstances? In the kind of campaign I run, this character would be amazing, and is in fact very similar to a major NPC I drop in occasionally. On the other hand, this is simply not a viable character for soloing Tiamat.
#9 PhyrexianKitsune Dec 16, 2014 8:04:15	Ehh, I'm not looking for total min-maxing, but I want to contribute and be effective in combat at the same time. Basicly, I don't want to be the gimp. Either way, it seems that this concept works just fine and isn't totally gimped out, at least from what everybody here has been saying. In addition, I discovered a way I don't have to use extra magic secrects on chill touch: the vairent human + the magic initiate feat. Selecting Sorcerer as my casting class for this feat lets me use cha as my casting stat, and I can use the 2 sorcerer cantrips to pick up chill touch as well as something generally useful which greatly increases my cantrip versatility(Bards start off with just 2.)  As for the 1st level sorcerer spell castable 1/day at the lowist possible level, the choice is obviously mage armor. While there are necro spells on the sorc list at level 1, they all have level dependent vairables, making mage armor the superior choice since nothing about it is dependent on the level at which it's cast. Even further, it lets me walk around in normal cloths rather then light armor, both freeing up carrying capacity(Likely dumping str on this character and using either ranged and/or finess weapons) and giving me more option for deciding how my character looks, which is always a bonus. Oh, and mage armor gives me more armor then the strongest of light armors, at least before magic bonuses come into play, and if I really want to I can still strap on light armor in a pinch.....just the option of being able to go it with mage armor instead is very nice to have.
(Reply to #9) Ashrym	PhyrexianKitsune wrote: