Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 KaptainKrunch Apr 11, 2015 7:02:08	Hey guys, had a quick question about rules I might not have caught somewhere in the book regarding knocking targets prone.   The Battlemaster's Trip ability specifically calls out that you can't knock targets prone unless the target is at most one size larger than you. This is the same as the Barbarian's 14th level Wolf ability.     However there are several abilities that don't make this call.   Monk Way of the open hand Water Whip Fist of Unbroken Air (Monks can also apparently push and pull anything up to 15-25 feet with their monastic tradition abilites.)   Casters Command (This one makes perfect sense though.) Destructive Wave Earthquake Grease Sleet Storm Tasha's HIdeous Laughter Thunderous Smite     All Characters Ball Bearings - DC 10 check or fall prone (This would especially be embarrasing for the huge dragon - but also a hiliarious way to make them spend their legendary resist just to avoid the humiliation, even if it's only a 15% success chance on an adult red dragon.)     Now as a condition, Prone is only okay since in 5e it only takes a movement to get back up again, and you don't even provoke attacks of opportunities for getting up next to someone anymore. The advantage it gives to melee attackers is party specific, and depending on your turn order may or may not be utilized effectively (Definitely want the Monk to go after the BBEG, for instance.) So, from a balance perspective I don't think this is extremely off kilter.     But I was wondering whether there was some other general rule I'm missing that prevents at least the non-magical options listed above from affecting larger creatures.  (Namely Way of the Open Hand, aka, Way of the Dragon ROFLCopter.)
#2 Kentus Apr 11, 2015 7:45:31	Rulewise you're certainly correct and didn't overlooked something.   But for my game tables, I often give advantage for some saves/checks due the sheer size difference between hazard/PC and enemy. Or disadvantage sometimes. ;)
#3 supreme_slayer Apr 11, 2015 9:55:13	Way of the Open Palm IS magical tripping, though, at least from what I gather from the descriptions. You send small amounts of Ki into the opponent's body, causing them to lose their balance. Could simply be reflavored as a trip of course. But that's how you can also knock prone something that's airborne. The push is a ki-empowered shove (possibly even like a burst of ki akin to a blast?), and so on and so forth.
#4 pauln6 Apr 12, 2015 5:20:42	My preferred way to approach gauntlets of ogre power and girdles of giant strength is to grant a +2 or +4 bonus to stat capped at the strength of the relevant type but allow the PC to be treated as huge or large for the purposes of tripping etc.  You can also provide a bonus to strength cheecks equal to the bonus of the relevant creature.  This takes care of the tricky issue of low strength characters getting a ludicrous boost but also makes them feel more special if you have a chance of wrestling a dragon to the ground.
#5 Danny_Montanny Apr 13, 2015 6:57:26	My suggestion is; don't always think prone as "fall flat on your face". You can add the melee advantage and recovering movement requirement to all sorts of effects. Rattled, staggering, off balance, or even agitation. "Man, you really pisses that dragon off. Everyone will get advantage on melee attacks against it as it thrashes around blinded by rage." The disadvantage on ranged attacks would be because of their sudden jerky movements.
#6 QwertyAzerty Apr 13, 2015 7:28:00	KaptainKrunch wrote:
#7 BRJN Apr 14, 2015 17:19:16	Keep in mind that Way of the Open Hand works with Flurry of Blows attacks and the enabling weapon attack, which are all melee.  I'm not aware - pro or con - if you can attach the Open Hand effects to a ranged attack.  I'd never thought of that before - crashlanding after being struck by a Dart !   Kalani had an experience where somebody used Command: Grovel on an airborne dragon.  It crashed to the ground immediately.  Upon further review, there were problems and rules issues (out of range, for one) with the event.  I would have ruled that the dragon must land during its turn and prostrate itself at his feet and may not take off until the next turn.  (This WOULD NOT prevent the dragon from trying a Bite attack on the Command-er though.)  I would rule likewise in this case also.
(Reply to #7) Danny_Montanny	BRJN wrote:
#9 BRJN Apr 15, 2015 16:37:30	Danny_Montanny wrote:
(Reply to #9) Danny_Montanny	BRJN wrote:
(Reply to #10) QwertyAzerty	Danny_Montanny wrote:
#12 BRJN Apr 17, 2015 19:16:46	Danny_Montanny wrote:
#13 Danny_Montanny Apr 17, 2015 20:23:33	Whatever the PCs do is up to them. I know if I was the dragon, I'd wait till a few of them got close and hit them with a wing attack before my next turn, though.