Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Talreign Mar 18, 2015 14:11:15	So, I'm looking to, with DM okay, run a Kobold as a PC. My biggest thing is adhering to standards: nothing overpowered, good fluff, and no negative stat attributes (5e for life). Sunlight Sensitivity is balanced by Pack Tactics, or not? It seems like it would make you too good underground. A melee class with advantage on every attack with an ally nearby is quite peppy.   So my thoughts were:   +2 dex +1 other Darkvision: 60 ft Sunlight Sensitivity: as is. Pack Tactics: advantage on the first attack made against a creature targeted with an attack by an ally since your last turn. Trapsense: double proficiency (or add proficiency if none) to attempts to perceive or discover traps so long as you can see them. Language: Yippy Draconic, Common   Anything more fluffwise than Trapsense? I considered disadvantage on fear saves.
#2 NeoRealist Mar 18, 2015 18:18:18	It is really hard to balance out what is essentially "advantage on every single attack roll where you have any melee based allies around" but, how about something like this?
#3 Talreign Mar 18, 2015 18:19:26	In addition to these changes, or change Pack Tactics back to DM rules? I'm not certain how disadvantage on strength rolls beats advantage on all hits in melee, so long as your best buddy forever is 5 feet away.
#4 Matau99 Mar 18, 2015 18:21:50	Page 282 of the DMG is the "RAW" version.   -4 on Str, +2 to Dex Pact Tactics Sunlight Sensetivity Small size, darkvision 60 ft Common & Draconic   >inb4 Pun-Pun
#5 Talreign Mar 18, 2015 18:25:21	Yeah, I've seen that. Those are for NPC character adjustments only. Not intended for PC race use. There's no way in hell a -4 strength is going to work. And I'm not interested in "BUT YER A KOBALD" arguments, really. Adventurers aren't trumped up commoners. Neither should a Kobold be worse than a commoner automatically if it's managed to live long enough to reach 1 class level of anything. 5e means no negative modifiers.   And if a halfling can be stronger than a half-orc using point-buy, a kobold should be able to do the same.
#6 NeoRealist Mar 18, 2015 18:24:58	I'd considered it along with your modified 'pack tactics', not the original MM rules.    Having disadvantage on all strength rolls would (when combined with the disadvantage on all attack rolls made in bright light from Sunlight Sensitivity) cancel out having advantage on your first attack roll every round in my opinion, and be at least somewhat flavourful in respect to kolbolds being considered relatively puny even for their size
#7 Matau99 Mar 18, 2015 18:29:30	They might be aimed at NPCs only, but they sure work for PCs too. I'd love to play a Zombie Abjurer. Disregard that -6 Int, -4 Wis, and -4 Cha! I'm putting 15s in them all, and with my Undead Fortitude, I'm the tankiest level 1 wizard ever, and the most astute, charming zombie in history!   Anyway, back to the issue at hand, I think the DMG/MM option is nice and balanced, but if you don't want a negative bonus, you might as well impose disadvantage on all Str attack rolls, ability checks, and saving throws. That's effectively a -5 bonus, which works fine.
#8 Talreign Mar 18, 2015 18:30:55	They already have disadvantage to the things that matter, such as grappling, due to being of a smaller size than medium. Sort of just like halflings and gnomes. In fact, shouldn't gnomes have the same disadvantage, since they're the same size/frame of a kobold?   Anyway, back to the issue at hand, I think the DMG option is nice and balanced, but if you don't want a negative bonus, you might as well impose disadvantage on all Str attack rolls, ability checks, and saving throws. That's effectively a -5 bonus, which works fine.
#9 Batgirl_III Mar 18, 2015 18:33:34	I'd follow in the footsteps of 4e, which gave Kobold's the "Shifty"  At-Will Racial Power. Don't give player character Kobolds Pack Tactics at all and give them the "Nimble Escape" ability that Goblins have.   If you want an explanation: they're more individualistic than the pack-mentality of the other Kobolds that never become adventurers. Those guys stick to the same caverns and tribes they were born into and their cowardice influencea their fighting style. Heroic Kobolds strike out on their own... But are still naturally cunning little guys that fight dirty. Hence, Nimble Escape.
#10 Matau99 Mar 18, 2015 18:33:57	Talreign wrote:
(Reply to #9) Talreign	Batgirl_III wrote:
#12 NeoRealist Mar 18, 2015 19:21:12	In that case, maybe just swapping the 'pack tactics' trait out entirely in exchange for what is essentially two feats worth of stat additions (+4) to strength compared to normal kobolds is the way to go? You'll be playing the professional lifter of kolbolds, who just doesn't happen to play nice with others as much as his kin.   Seems more balanced that way.
#13 Talreign Mar 18, 2015 19:39:34	+2 dex +1 other Size: small Move Speed: 30' Darkvision: 120 ft (sunlight sensitivity or bust) Sunlight Sensitivity: as is. Trapsense: double proficiency (or add proficiency if none) to attempts to perceive or discover traps so long as you can see them. Wiry: advantage on saving throws versus being restrained. Overlooked: enemies are likely to consider you a non-threat when first encountering you. Language: Yippy Draconic, Common   Although without Pack Tactics, I don't see the point of sunlight sensitivity with this setup. Sunlight Sensitivity works for Drow (or doesn't, but that's another story) because they get 120', but Kobolds only get 60'.
#14 Matau99 Mar 19, 2015 9:44:24	Talreign wrote:
#15 Talreign Mar 19, 2015 12:49:47	I'd play a Kobold Sorcerer in a second, but I wanted to play a Barbarian for this campaign coming up, and a Kobold Barbarian just sounds like all kinds of fun waiting to be had. My big draw to 5e was that race no longer decides class. Picking a race does not gimp a class. I'm not going to give that up.
#16 Matau99 Mar 19, 2015 12:58:33	Fair enough point. I'd play it as in the DMG, but if you don't want to, it's up to you.
#17 Talreign Mar 19, 2015 13:07:01	It's actually up to our DM, but I was hoping to have something compelling to offer other than "Are you sure you want to be a Barbarian that starts with 11 strength and Light Sensitivity?"
#18 Matau99 Mar 19, 2015 13:19:18	If you are going as in DMG, demand Pack Tactics. It's essential to the whole character, and very well fluffed.
#19 awaken_D_M_golem Mar 19, 2015 16:06:49	Deep Gnomes are the 1st comparison available, between the DMG NPC version and EE official race, and the PHB other Gnomes.
#20 BRJN Mar 24, 2015 18:16:29	Maybe this will help (or maybe it won't): Edit Pack Tactics so you must have a Kobold ally for it to trigger. Of course if I was the player, I'd then try to Persuade my friends to play melee-loving Kobolds too...   Alternative: Pack Tactics triggers with any willing ally who also has Pack Tactics - would allow you to work with hobgoblins, wolves, and similar coordination-loving creatures.
(Reply to #5) CCS	Talreign wrote:
#22 Rowan_Whispercloak Mar 24, 2015 21:44:34	Not meaning to derail, but I have never understood the appeal/desire to play a kobold?
(Reply to #22) Keaerin	Rowan_Whispercloak wrote:
#24 Matau99 Mar 25, 2015 7:14:25	Keaerin wrote:
#25 Bullywug Mar 25, 2015 16:02:33	+2 dex +1 Intelligence Darkvision: 60 ft Size: Small Speed: 30 feet Sunlight Sensitivity Pack Tactics Language: Common, Draconic   The small size and sunlight sensitivity make pack tactics balanced, and since thats thats there only racial feature that is good it is not overpowered. Intelligence because Kobold Wizards.
#26 transcendantviewer Mar 27, 2015 8:12:52	Talreign wrote:
#27 TomCosta Mar 30, 2015 18:23:55	Here's a slightly different version that I had starting working up....   Kobold, Draconic You come from a more advanced culture of kobolds more closely tied to dragons.   Draconic Kobold Traits As a draconic, you have the following racial traits.   Ability Score Decreases and Increases. Your Strength score decreases by 2, your Dexterity score increases by 2 and your Charisma score increases by 1. OR double all decreases/increases. OR give disadvantage on Strength checks because slight. Age. XXX. Alignment. Lawful Evil. Size. Your size is Small. Speed. You are quite fast and nimble for your size. Your base walking speed is 30 feet.   Bite. You have a natural bite attack with a reach of 5 ft. that deals 1d4 piercing damage. Born Miner. You have proficiency with the war pick. Darkvision. Accustomed to hunting at night, you have superior vision in dark and dim conditions. You can see in dim light within 60 feet of you as if it were bright light, and in darkness as if it were dim light. You can’t discern color in darkness, only shades of gray. Draconic Nature. You are considered a dragon. Natural Armor.  You have a +1 bonus to Armor Class. Pack Tactics. You have advantage on attack rolls against a creature if at least one of your allies is within 5 feet of the creature and the ally isn’t incapacitated. You cannot use this trait again until you complete a short or long rest. OR REPLACE WITH Swarm Buddy. You are adept at fighting communally. You can use the Help action to aid a friendly creature in attacking a creature within 5 feet of you as a bonus action. You can’t use this trait again until you finish a short or long rest . Slight Build. You can squeeze without having to spend extra movement. Moreover, while you are squeezing, attack rolls against you do not gain advantage because you are in a smaller space. Sunlight Sensitivity. You have disadvantage on attack rolls and on Wisdom (Perception) checks that rely on sight when you, the target of your attack, or whatever you are trying to perceive is in direct sunlight. Trap Detector. You have advantage on Wisdom (Perception) and Intelligence (Investigation) checks made to detect the presence of secret doors and traps. In addition, you have advantage on saving throws made to avoid or resist traps and resistance to the damage dealt by traps. Finally, you can search for traps while traveling at a normal pace, instead of only at a slow pace. Trapper. You have a natural cleverness for trap making and disabling. You gain proficiency with a trapmaking kit and thieves’ tools. Languages. You can speak, read, and write Common and Draconic.
#28 TenaciousJ Mar 30, 2015 19:52:57	Rowan_Whispercloak wrote:
#29 SeamusTheBard Apr 16, 2015 8:48:46	In my group we had a character who wanted to play a Kobold. I used stats from the DMG with one of the following (to help offset the -4 Str penalty and represent that he is "better than the average Kobold"):   +1 to any two ability scores (or +2 to any one, including Strength if you wanted) Wings (a 30ft fly speed) a feat. ​So far there have been no complaints on either side of the DM screen. It's worth keeping in mind that not every race should necessarily be equally good at every class or role. Kobolds are physically weak. They've been physically weak for a few decades now. That's what makes the idea of a kobold barbarian intriguing and new.  Just tossing that in the bin entirely isn't necessarily the best solution.
#30 Regin_Vargtass Apr 16, 2015 9:50:10	I like the idea with +2 Dex, +1 Cha, and disadvantage on Str checks and saves.   I would give proficiency to either trapmaking kit or thieves' tools, not both.   Perhaps a penalty to carrying capacity to go with the slight build.   Finally, I would test Swarm buddy (help action to adjacent ally's attack as a bonus action) without any limitation. Using it will put the kobold in harm's way, so it might balance it.
#31 guachi Apr 16, 2015 16:17:55	Matau99 wrote:
#32 OnionDruid Apr 17, 2015 7:39:18	+2 Dex Small Size Speed 25 Darkvision (normal, none of that sunlight sensitivity bull crap for PCs) Shifty Tactics: Can take disengage or hide action as a bonus action. Crafty Tactics: Choose a 1 handed simple weapon. When you use that weapon in 1 hand you may count it as finesse. Once you make this choice it can't be changed. Subraces Tuckers Kobold: +1 Int, Gain proficiency with Investigation. Dragon Soul: + 1 Cha, Gain +1 HP at first level and each level after that.
#33 Talreign Apr 24, 2015 14:35:16	I ended up running a Kobold Paladin straight out of the MM. It works pretty good in buildings. A Dex Paladin can do just fine. Pack Tactics is pretty useful, as I can either run up and stab on other people's targets, or defend the squishies and get a benefit from it.   So far, my DM has said +2 Dex, -4 Strength, +1 Other (Half-elf ftw), Pack Tactics, SS, Darkvision 30 ft., and gave me the Halfling "move through larger creature's space" and "can hide behind any larger creature" abilities as an afterthought. He offered to remove my -4 Strength for me, but I was like "No, this is fun." So he okay'ed it.   So far, he plays like a cranky, overconfident paladin who manages to be both demure and unassuming, and an overzealous go-getter, depending on the situation. He agrees to anything that sounds good, "ON HIS HONOR," and has so far pissed off the NPC boss with how many nice things he's agreed to do, all while being on the payroll of someone else.   Eats pickled eyeballs, chews on unknown herbs when offered them by the Druid, and generally has an "I'LL GO FIRST IN CASE EVIL IS AFOOT AHEAD" way of approaching life, even though he's the smallest character in the group, and has been nearly eaten by a darkmantle and kicked to death by a CR2 giant chicken after challenging it to a fight.
(Reply to #33) AlnSue09	My take on a Kobold Barbarian   Kobold Barbarian  +2 Dex, -4 Str, +1 Other (reflects different tribal characteristics) Small Size Darkvision 60ft Pack Tactics  Sunlight Sensitivity  Alignment: Any (Usually Lawful Evil) Speed: You are quite fast and nimble for your size. Your base walking speed is 30 feet. Languages: You can speak, read, and write Common, Draconic, and one language of choice.   Kobold Barbarian Option: Aggressive Weapon Training: Choose a two-handed simple or two-handed martial weapon. when you use that weapon in two hands you may count it as finesse. Once you make this choice it can't be changed. You have disadvantage when using any other two-handed or martial weapon.  This reflects your extensive training with your weapon of choice.     Trap Specialist: (replaces background) Trap Detector: You have advantage on Wisdom (Perception) and Intelligence (Investigation) checks made to detect the presence of secret doors and traps. In addition, you have advantage on saving throws made to avoid or resist traps and resistance to the damage dealt by traps. Finally, you can search for traps while traveling at a normal pace, instead of only at a slow pace. You gain proficiency in either Investigation or Perception. Trapper: You have a natural cleverness for trap making and disabling. You gain proficiency with a trapmaking kit and thieves’ tools.