Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Fallstorm Aug 14, 2014 18:46:57	One thing that is disappointing in 5E is the lack of a “controller” style wizard.  To define the term “control” I mean a wizard who has area effect spells that hinder multiple opponents to an effective degree.   I started playing DnD in the very early editions.  This style was present in all editions of DnD with 4E being the pinnacle representation of the style.  Yet, I find the style virtually non-existent in the 5E PHB.  The wizard class seems to lend itself to the Blaster Caster model as the penultimate build type in this edition.     In prior editions a level 5 wizard (just using the PHB) could have a good range of solid control spells.  For example in 4E:  At Will: Thunderwave doing area damage and a push, and Cloud of Daggers which could be used at low levels to close off a square (upon fear of damage) , which wasn’t much but definitely stopped minions and so forth . Encounters:  Lv1-Icy terrain to make an area difficult terrain and knock opponents prone, Color Spray-to make a group of creatures Dazed Dailies: Lvl1-Sleep and Lvl 5 Web-which actually worked as they had to pass your save DC or get immobilized Even in 3.5 a wizard had a fair amount of area based control options: Lvl 1: Sleep and color spray  Lvl 2: Web, Glitterdust, Lvl 3:  Slow and Deep Slumber, etcetera. In NEXT there really just seems to be on overall lack of control.  Sleep is still present but there is no deep slumber equivalent but the spell is still nearly an automatic encounter winner at level 1-2 I will say that.  Even spells that do exist that use to impact multiple creatures now only impact a single target; slow would be a good example of this.  Then you have spells that just seem weaker.  As an example Web allows a dexterity save and a strength save to break.  Given the standard point spread a wizard will have a DC 13 instead of 15 or higher like in 3rd and 4th edition.  A lot of classes have advantage on dexterity saves so that will not be impacted by this spell then even if they are effected if they have a decent strength like say fighters they will not care as they will probably break free at the start of their turn.  The only classes that will not break free or maybe wizards and other casters types but they are ranged attackers anyway so being immobile really doesn't matter to them. Even from a blaster caster standpoint the only at-will area damage spell is acid splash and that is pitiful.  The spell only effects one other target and that target literally has to be standing right beside the primary target.  The designers couldn’t have come up with a spell like say scorching burst that does d3 damage to all targets in a 10 ft. radius or something?  Am I missing something when it comes to available control options?  Am I not looking at the spells deeply enough?   If one wanted to build a hard control style wizard what spells, arcane traditions, feats, etcetera would be good? Have at it.
#2 Thank_Dog Aug 15, 2014 2:32:27	Fights should be chaotic.   /thread
#3 reddaemon Aug 15, 2014 3:30:13	Fallstorm wrote:
#4 mellored Aug 15, 2014 5:49:29	The issue with control is that there's not enough hit points.     You could cast sleep, and the kobolds are stunned for a while.  Or you can cast burning hands, and the kobolds are dead.
#5 aurionshidhe Aug 15, 2014 8:12:10	Cantrips such as Ray of Frost and Shocking Grasp are at-will and provide secondary control effects (without saves to resist).  Thunderwave is a first level spell and still has the push effects.  Cloud of Daggers is a second level spell and has no attack roll or save.  If anyone enters the space (or starts their turn there) they take damage.  And never forget the control given to a creative illusionist.  You can still do a control wizard.
#6 Mephi1234 Aug 15, 2014 8:58:36	You'd be surprised at what a well built lore bard can do with illusions, enchantments, and some druid spells.    Do not mess with.
(Reply to #4) Ashrym	mellored wrote:
(Reply to #6) Ashrym	Mephi1234 wrote:
#9 mellored Aug 15, 2014 10:54:15	Ashrym wrote:
#10 DrDragonlance Aug 15, 2014 10:57:06	I do not think control is possible with Concentration. Almost all control spells require it or are useless by level 2.
#11 Mephi1234 Aug 15, 2014 13:05:17	DrDragonlance wrote:
(Reply to #9) Ashrym	mellored wrote: