Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 KaptainKrunch May 25, 2015 10:19:06	Let's make a party to kill a Tarrasque in as few turns as possible.   Rules: 4 man party - Feats and Multiclassing allowed. No restrictions on class. All Characters level 20 Each party member gets the max of 3 attuned magic items and 3 no attunement magic items. Each party member gets one tome increasing a stat of their choice by 2 (Above the normal max 20 - a max of 22) Non-Magical items can be of any material desired.   RNG is determined by flat numbers and averages   To-hit is determined by adding up the chance you have to hit until it hits 100%. Multiple attacks add together and any excess of 100% is accrued into the next atack. Examples: -The Tarrasque has an AC of 25. If the character has less than a 6 in their to-hit, they accrue 5% each round representing their chance to hit on a roll of 20 only. - With a 7 in their to-hit, they succeed on a 19 or 20, or 10%, so they accrue 10% per attack for their to-hit. - A 14 to-hit suceeds on any roll equal to or above an 11, so they have a 50% chance to-hit, so they accrue 50% per attack.   Saving Throws are determined the same way, however, the entire party shares the percentage build up for each saving throw type. Examples: - The tarrasque has a +9 bonus to Wis saves. Character A casts Confusion with a saving throw of 20. This has a 50% chance of success, which does not equal 100%, so the spell fails. However if Character B also casts Confusion with a saving throw of 20. These added together equals 100%, thus the spell succeeds. - If a party member casts Banish, and another casts Confusion, they do not stack the success chance.   Advantage to-hit percentages are determined by multiplying the fail chance by itself, and then subtracting that number from 1. So in the 14 to-hit example, each attack would add 75% with advantage.   Disadvantage to-hit percentages are determined by multiplying the success chance by itself and then subtracting that number from 1.   Damage will always deal the average damage (Aka, if you land a Disintegrate, you   Critical Hits will accrue each round - Normal Crit is 5%, so a character with one attack will crit once every 20 rounds. Any character with 2 attacks will crit once every 10 rounds. A champion will accrue 10% and 15% per attack depending on which improved critical level they have earned. Crits are considered auto-hits and do not reset the normal to-hit build-up (However you cannot hit more often than you have attacks in a round.)   Tarrasque Actions Legendary Saves - It is assumed the Tarrasque will always use a legendary save on an effect that restricts its actions in any way. It will not use a legendary save on an effect that only deals damage.   Frightful Presence - Use the above RNG rules to determine the affect on each party member. This does mean that each party member will be affected for at least 1 round unless immunity is available.   Legendary Actions - The Tarrasque will use Attack and Chomp every round. Chomp will always be a bite.   Normal Actions - The Tarrasque will attempt a swallow every other round.   Movement This combat takes place in a large open space with no useful terrain, thus movement will not be considered.   RNG works the same for the Tarrasque as it does for players.   Am I forgetting anything?
#2 Eck May 25, 2015 11:49:49	4 Wizard/Diviners. Each casts Simulacrum, so now I have 8 wizard diviners. Each of them casts Meteor Swarm doing 20d6 fire and 20d6 blugeoning. 40 * 3.5 = 140 140*8 = 1,120 hp.   I could probably be more clever, but it's lunch time and I have to go.   - Eck
(Reply to #2) AaronOfBarbaria	Eck wrote:
#4 Eck May 25, 2015 13:40:00	Booo. I knew I shouldn't have rapid posted before double checking. Good catch Aaron.   I guess I'll dip two levels of fighter and action surge with my 8 wizards. They'll all cast Finger of Death (with their 8th level spell slot just for fun) 7d8 + 30 necrotic damage, Con save for half. We'll say he saves vs all 8. 7d8 + 30 = 61.5 / 2 = 30.25 ~30 30 * 8 = 240 more necrotic damage.   1,120 / 2 = 560 560 + 240 = 800 damage.
#5 reddaemon May 25, 2015 22:19:22	1 Wizard   1.  Cast Maze (it's impossible for the Tarrasque to escape unless you stop concentrating) 2.  Cast Prismatic Wall as a 30 foot diameter sphere 60 feet in the air above where the Tarrasque was 3.  Cast Reverse Gravity where the Tarrasque was (ending your concentration on Maze) 4.  Watch the Tarrasque tumble through the Prismatic Wall repeatedly until it either disintegrates or fails its save against the Violet Wall     GG.  Tarrasque dead (or banished to the Ethereal Plane) with 1 Wizard.  He might fail the save vs Frightful Presence, so a Paladin might be necessary.   For faster results, 4 Prismatic Walls
#6 transcendantviewer May 26, 2015 1:55:08	I was thinking just a whole bunch of Draconic Decent Sorcerers, all blasting it with Baleful Polymorph from the air until it turns into a girbil, then dropping the thing in the ocean and waiting for it to drown - because no matter how big you are, you can only swim for so long.
#7 Lord_Kadarian May 26, 2015 2:11:37	Just analyzing   1. Maze grants a int save, tarrasque has a +5 bonus to this save, and gets advantage on these saves: so he has a 51% chance of successfully escaping, also if it does fail it can expend a legendary save to free itself, based on the OP rules it will be free on round two either way.  Since maze banishes the tarrasque we are therefore gaining a maximum 2 rounds of prep time which could be very useful to the party if the tarrasque is a surprise.  2. prismatic wall is a nice touch mixed in with maze since the tarrasque is not currently there thus it does not automatically fail. Assuming that we boosted our int to 22, our total dc is 20 with advantage and with a +10 con save, (blindsight as well) (79.75% success) so unlikely to be blinded, or impared if it does fail. So then we get to the next part, damage from the wall we can ignore fire and poison, so we are taking damage from lighting and acid. so 20d6 so 70 damage the probabilty of halving the damage is 9.75% since he has no dexterity. So that is two failed saves based on the rules during round 1, but not enough damage to worry about. So now we are on to the last two layers. Indigo has a great use restraining the foe. Its chance of making its dex save are low so it would be restrained but it will use one of its legendary saves to resolve this, not being restrained it is not subject to the secondary effect of the layer, violet layer may cause blindness if it is not already blind, which means little to the monster. When we deal with the second save we have a 75% chance of success against the banishment, and if it does fail we use one more legendary save.    so the effects of prismatic wall, is 70 damage and the loss of one or two legendary saves. Still a good debuff to the monster if we consider it.   Now lets add in reverse gravity, this pulls the tarrasque up forcing it through the wall and then back down again when the spell is dropped, of course this only takes effect once, so we will have to make sure that the top of the gravity is within the prismatic wall since it does not have a save unless the gm gives the tarrasque something to grab on to.    One problem I see is that in the indigo it mentions that if you make the save three times the spell ends. Not the effect the spell. So this means that the tarrasque could use its three legendary saves to end the prismatic wall effect entirely. Since Maze will not hold it for long it probably won't use a legendary save on this. It will have three total uses, and being a con save has a high chance of making the save to not be turned to stone, and since he can make these saves automatically if it does fail. So that would be my worry with this strategy seeing as we have limited 9th 8th and 7th level slots and we have just used them all for this combo.    I will say this If you have some good remaining save based non fire, non poison attack spells, you can get some more damage in while leaving it floating upside down. I would also say that having some ranged party members to help you take down his HP since he cannot reach you from 100ft up although some jumping and chomping might have an effect. either way I think that reverse gravity is an amazing idea to use in this fight. Maze buys time or burns up auto successes, so buff time and prismatic wall may not be the most useful but should help burn up the rest of the auto saves in this battle.    Now then 4 wizards with 4 walls all taking effect at the same time, now we have taken away the abiltiy to auto save out of this problem. with also 280 damage from the prismatic walls. With having to make saves against greatly increases the chances of turning it to stone, or banishing it. Although I feel this takes a lot of the fun out of the fight.    Still 4 wizards with your strategy  I agree stand a very good chance to win especially since prismatic wall does not require concentration.
#8 Lord_Kadarian May 26, 2015 2:41:14	I think it would be fun to use 4 wizards with shape change. I would go with turning into Pit fiends: 300 HP for free, four attacks (while the poison and fire is worthless) the overall damage is not bad.  +14 to hit with a total of 4 of them flanking the tarrasque we can safely say we have advantage or ways to get it with flight. so we are talking a 75% chance to hit per attack so based on the rules first attack misses, second attack hits, as do third and fourth attacks this repeats each round of combat.    17+15+24= 56 damage per round per pit fiend, totalling 224 damage a round to the tarrasque also the damage counts as magic weapons so no resistance.  so the wizard team needs to last 3 rounds in order to slay the tarrasque.    Now then surviving 3 rounds is the question the tarrasque hits on anything but a 1, but does not have advantage in this situation. So we have a 95% to hit, this means that the first attack of combat will miss, but after words we can make 19 attacks before missing again.  the two claws deal 56 damage, then 32 from the horns and then 24 damage from the tail. 92 damage for its first round of attacks, and then gets to make a bite and a claw attack, 28 and 36 damage. so another 64 damage.   totaling 156 damage for the first round. The second round it would deal 192 so in two rounds the tarrasque can turn one of these wizards back to a normal wizard. (this wizard will then need to dimension door to a safe distance and use attack magic with saves to harm the tarrasque) Still with it taking two rounds to undue each shapechange spell on the wizards they should win in the end.
#9 reddaemon May 26, 2015 8:11:56	Maze is not an Int save. It is an Int Check. There is a big difference. Because it is an int check it is impossible for the Tarrasque to escape. And the tarrasque will take damage from the wall every turn while it is suspended by the reverse gravity. The tarrasque is fifty feet tall and seventy feet long which means while it is floating at the top of the reversed gravity, it is always occupying the wall. The tarrasque won't get an attack because it will fall up as soon as it returns from the Maze, assuming it doesn't kill you on turn 1 if it wins initiative. But just in case, cast contingency with a trigger to have Otiluke's Resilient Sphere come into effect on you just as you are attacked by the tarrasque. If you really want to auto win, throw in a Cleric or Druid and have them cast Contagion on the Tarrasque to give it automatic stun for 3 rounds (auto fail Dex saves)
#10 OnionDruid May 26, 2015 9:23:10	Yeah Int Checks are not Int Saves. There was an article that explained that Hex doesn't work on saves only on ability checks. Which means, just for the fun of it, bring a Warlock along. Give the big T disadvantage on the Int Check for giggles. The problem with Big T is the same in all editions. No mobility and the thing is just a stupid pile of HP... Lower CR Dragons are scarier due to their tactics.
#11 Horwath May 26, 2015 10:20:51	3 halforc bear totem barbarians and a life cleric.
#12 mellored May 26, 2015 10:34:18	3 birdman divination wizards 18/fighter 2, and a birdman monk 18/fighter 2.   birdmonk will flurry of blows (4 portent hits), do 3 stuns (3 portent fails) and 1 quivering palm. Action surge, and kill (portent fail save).     8 diviniation dice used, out of 9 possible.  You may have to wait a few days to get the right pre-rolls.   The divination wizard can also force failed saves with their own spells. Unless he's smart enough to not waste legendary resistance on a stuns.
#13 Krusk May 26, 2015 14:53:54	Level 1 fighter (or whatever, any class works, but fighter is better) with a magic bow and a horse. Hit with bow at max range. Never let your horse get within 120ft. Max bow range is 600ft at disadvantage.   The Tarrasque can move 40ft per round, 60 if it uses a legendary action and 100 if it uses a dash.    My horse archer can move 60ft per round. If the horse uses a dash every round it moves 120. Eventually it will die from your arrows. Even better, thanks to bonded accuracy, you actually have a decent chance to hit. Dex 20 and proficency of +2 means you get +7 to hit, sure its at disadvantage, but its not at "need a 20". If you chose a fighter, you get +9 with archery style. Note, if you can't roll an 18 (everyone I've ever seen roll stats usually has 2 on 3d6 whats wrong with you?), you can start with a 14 elfed into 16. In this case you hit on a nat 20 only, unless you are a fighter. Then you hit on a 19 or 20. So it takes longer and more arrows.    You can sit in a sweetspot withint disadvantage, but its a narrow band and will be tricky to not get hit. And if you get hit you'll die. So its probably better to sit the full 500ft out or something dumb and just pepper it. Your only limit is the DM being mad and telling you that you ran out of arrows.   My assumption is that your DM will eventually give you a magic bow if you explain your character "uses a bow as his primary weapon" but who knows. Its easier if i get a flying mount, but thats a little more dependant on your DM than assuming "a magic weapon at some point". Scale your fighters effectiveness to whatever level your DM gives you a bow.    This all assumes PHB. If you've got any of the other stuff, or want to comb through backgrounds, you could make it worse.    If someone wants to do math they can figure out how many arrows you need. I'm sure its a very high number.
(Reply to #13) AaronOfBarbaria	Krusk wrote:
#15 BRJN May 26, 2015 15:25:23	4 Wizards: they research and create the HotDQ ritual that transfers Tiamat from Avernus to the Natural World.  Run the ritual 'in reverse' so it moves the Tarrasque from the Natural World to Avernus.
(Reply to #14) Saeviomagy	AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
#17 AaronOfBarbaria May 27, 2015 1:36:32	I figure it closes in 30 rounds because I figure the DM is setting up a scenario where the tarrasque actually gets to use all of its legendary actions each round - and if we are going with a white-room 600 feet away with no cover or line of sight issues, it is only fair to at least let the tarrasque be more concerned with the mounted archer claimed as being all it takes to kill a tarrasque than with the other creatures enabling the legendary actions.
#18 RulesJD May 27, 2015 1:57:02	4 Wizards   Each casts True Polymorph -> Ancient White Dragon   Fly around and just blast with breath weapon from range   Done.
#19 AndrewJO May 27, 2015 4:11:21	Hunter Ranger 5, War Cleric 15, Sharpshooter feat. I don't have a dmg so I don't have access to magic item stats, but I'd say some sort of magic longbow, and any other item that will increase damage dealt or chance to hit. Wyvern mount if possible. Strap as many full quivers to the wyvern as possible. Remain 600 ft away from Big T at all times. Using swift quiver, Ranger gets 4 attacks per turn for one minute using a fifth level spell slot, dealing 3(3d8+8)+(4d8+8) per turn(+9 instead of 8 if we assume 22 Dex), assuming all attacks hit(I don't feel like doing the math on how often he hits). Once I run out of spell slots to cast swift quiver with(6 minutes total),I cast Hunter's Mark, increasing weapon damage by 1d6. I can make 3 attacks per turn for 5 rounds using War Priest(6 rounds if 22 Wis). After I have used up War Priest, I swoop within 60 ft of Big T, cast Spiritual weapon, then swoop out of range again. I continue using this tactic until I am out of 2nd-4th level spell slots(3 minutes dealing 2d8+5 damage, 6 minutes dealing 1d8+5 damage). Using this tactic, my character should remain unharmed, and with the assistance of 3 other PCs, Big T should be dead.
#20 Lord_Kadarian May 27, 2015 10:29:09	Just thinking over who my actual party is in game I am now wondering how we would do against the tarrasque at level 20 I think I need to get the group to level up for a single session to 20 and try it out.    Party: Wood Elf Druid Moon (likes wolf forms), Warlock Half elf pact archfey, tome, Human fighter Eldritch knight (abjuration all the way), Halfling Rogue lightfoot/assassin.  I will talk to my players and see what they would build if they got to level 20, and post how it goes probably will run it this weekend.
#21 Marandahir May 28, 2015 7:44:52	This thread just highlights to me how, despite efforts to balance martial and caster characters this addition by limiting the use of high level magic, we're still back at Quadratic Wizards. To my understanding, the Wizard is only really balanced this edition if it's the ONLY Wizard in the party. >_>
(Reply to #21) AaronOfBarbaria	Marandahir wrote:
#23 danyc May 28, 2015 10:20:13	Yeah, I think 5e does the best job of any edition yet of preserving value for both martials and casters while still allowing the casters to use different mechanics. For most of the game versus most enemies, martial damage is really important and spell casters really are limited in resources. And while high level casters deform play a bit, so can high level martials: a Champion with Heavy Armor Mastery can very likely kill an entire army by themselves, Rogues can regularly get unbeatably high skill check numbers that let them mess with the world with near impunity, etc. Generally the trick to high level D&D is making things more about the story and the grand ideas than the raw mechanics, and not being afraid to go beyond the book to come up with challenges that will really challenge.   As for Big T, it's just a badly designed monster, because there's enough fidly save based stuff that it isn't immune to and the range issues. If as the DM you really wanted to run it, I'd just advise making it literally immune to everything that isn't listed as a specific way to harm it, decide what ways those are that fit the party, and go from there.
#24 reddaemon May 28, 2015 11:22:54	Marandahir wrote:
(Reply to #24) AndrewJO	reddaemon wrote:
(Reply to #25) AaronOfBarbaria	AndrewJO wrote:
#27 Horwath May 28, 2015 12:23:22	Probles with Tarrasque as others have stated is that it's just a big bag of HP that has some minor limitation how to reduce that HP and some damage. Thats why I said 3 halforc beartotem barbarians with life cleric healer will man-fight him in melee. Hell, you could take 4 barbarians w/o cleric and just out DPS him he would be dead in 3-5 rounds.
(Reply to #27) AaronOfBarbaria	Horwath wrote:
#29 reddaemon May 28, 2015 14:43:32	If they are all Berserkers they are immune to the frightful presence. If one of them gets swallowed they could just simply keep attacking with Reckless attacks negating the disadvantage
(Reply to #29) AaronOfBarbaria	reddaemon wrote:
#31 reddaemon May 28, 2015 16:19:31	AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
(Reply to #31) AaronOfBarbaria	reddaemon wrote:
(Reply to #17) Saeviomagy	AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
#34 Horwath May 29, 2015 2:17:27	@Aaron, yes I agree that beserkers would be better in speed kill. But I said bear totem as a safety that none of them will get killed.    Also,I would rule that no mather the blinded conditions, you auto crit inside someones guts.
#35 AaronOfBarbaria May 29, 2015 2:29:03	Auto-crit when swallowed? Why would you want to turn a creature's dangerous special attack into the dumbest thing it could possibly do?
#36 Horwath May 29, 2015 2:39:35	Well you scrifice some HP to deal auto damage to it while freing your attacks for his friends.
#37 BRJN May 30, 2015 17:42:38	AndrewJO wrote:
#38 Krusk May 31, 2015 7:46:04	So just to be clear aaron, if the tarrasque is in a 600ft cubed box, with allies, and you don't give your fighter a magic weapon, the tarrasque can kill a level 1 fighter in 30 rounds?    Thats your defense to make the tarrasque look intimidating and tough? Because I think you just proved the exact opposite.
(Reply to #38) AaronOfBarbaria	Krusk wrote:
(Reply to #39) Saeviomagy	AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
#41 Kremlin_KOA_02 Jun 02, 2015 1:15:44	Okay Try 4 Battlemaster Fighters All fighter 20. All Dwarfs All have belt of Storm Giant Strength All Have Dwarven thrower x2 each has the 2 weapon fighting feat All have Lucky Feat Each has the Two-Weapon Fighting Style Each has the Precision attack maneuver. Each has a Carpet of Flying. The remaining 2 unattuned items, and the tome, will be ignored.   All fly in with their carpets, then attack with 2 weapon thrown attacks, and use action surge to get another attack set All use Precision attack on each attack until they run out of superiority dice, then use their lucky dice for the remaining 3 attacks. This gives each Dwarf 6 attacks at 105% chance to hit, and 3 attacks at 91% chance to hit (9+3+6) meaning 9 hits using the math in the OP Each hit averages at 21 damage (D8 + D8 + 9 + 3) 4 Dwarfs x 8 hits each = 36 hits 36 hits x 21 damage per = 756 Damage   4 Fighters can 1 round the Tarrasque.
#42 Synjin Jun 02, 2015 8:08:22	What, no flying cheese-mage with Acid Arrows?
#43 Yunru Jun 03, 2015 14:46:25	3 Divination Wizards with Simulcrum and a Open Hand Monk/Fighter 2. Tarrasque is so dead round 1.