Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 SirCabbage May 26, 2015 13:05:19	Ever since the 5th edition players handbook released I've been obsessing over making a detective. And now that a friend is creating a campaign spanning 1st to 20th level, I have my chance.   My problem? I'm a perfectionist.   Not in the way that I want to break the game, but rather that I want to make this character as consistantly useful to the party as possible while keeping with theme.   I've considered multiple class options such as Wizards, Arcane Tricksters, and Lore/Valor Bards.   Wizards a good choice, however they lack in the skill department and would have to compensate by using it's all important spell slots.   Arcane Trickster seems like a great choice with it's strong skills, sneak attacks, and it's versatility in it's action and spell choices. However it has much fewer available spell slots and when exhausted, could devolve into sneak attacking every round.   Lore Bards have even stronger skill versatility than the rogue and the same amount of spell slots as Wizard. However, they do lack the versatility in possible actions and sneak attack damage  the rogue abuses.   Valor Bards lose some of the skill and spell versatility but get an extra attack which eventually turns into 1 attack and a spell.   So, what do you think? Am I missing something? Do you feel I over or underestimated a factor? I could really use some help to get my mind thinking on the right path.
#2 mellored May 26, 2015 13:24:33	For a single class, lore bard is probably your best bet.   Plenty of skills, and spells like detect thoughts and zone of truth.  You can flavor your cutting words as insight into the enemy.  ("The way your postering, it's clear your mommy didn't love you" or "You must of been bullied by your big brother, poor baby").   They do plenty in combat as well, just not directly.  Tasha's hidious laughter and hold person can "kill" creatures by having it sit on the ground for 4 turns, just waiting for the fighter to come along and cut it up.
(Reply to #2) SirCabbage	mellored wrote:
#4 Bloodscythe May 26, 2015 14:15:06	Does your DM allow feats?  If so, observant and the feat that grants you proficiency in skills will help boost insight and perception skills.   As far as classes go, I'd go with a lore bard, diviner wizard, or cleric of knowledge since they seem to fit the theme of a detective.  Really though, magic isn't required as long as you have good insight and perception.   When you say "detective", do you mean Batman, Sherlock Holmes, Dick Tracy, Adrian Monk, Harry Dresden,...?
(Reply to #4) SirCabbage	Bloodscythe wrote:
(Reply to #5) Bloodscythe	SirCabbage wrote:
#7 Suppoko May 26, 2015 15:19:36	Dresden would make an awesome concept!!
#8 Slit518 May 26, 2015 16:44:48	Lore Bard, human variant as the race.  Intelligence, Charisma and Wisdom as your highest stats.  Choose the feat at 1st level that allows you to remember details really well up to a month ago, down to exact phrases (I think it's Keen Mind).  Skills should include Investigation, Insight, Perception, Persuasion, Stealth, Athletics.  Use Divination spells off of the Bard's spell list.  He might want some tools, perhaps Theif's Tools.
#9 demon_idol May 26, 2015 17:22:39	I like the idea of a Arcane Trickster/Wizard (diviner) better than a lore bard for a detective. A charisma based detective is certainly possible, but its not as Sherlock Holmes-ish as a Wizard.   Start with Arcane Trickster. Make your goal Arcane Trickster 6th, Diviner 5th+. That gives you access to a large number of divination spells, expertise for 4 skills, rituals, 4th+ level spell slots. Also, you will have intelligence as a primary statistic, will have taken expertise in it, and so will be amazing at investigate.   If I were to make this character, I would run a gnome, and start with a 17 intelligence   Start with stats strength 8, dexterity 13, constitution 12, intelligence 15, wisdom 14, charisma 10. As a forest gnome, you would have stats: 8/14/12/17/14/10. At 4th take observant or linquist (observant if the DM uses passive perception/investigation in a manner that suites your detective abilities).   Use arcane trickster to specialize in perception and investigation at 2nd level. At 4th level, your investigation would be +10 and your passive investigation would be +15.   For a background, start with charlatan for disquise and forgery, both of which require intelligence. At 6th level of arcane trickster, add stealth and deception to improve your infiltration abilities, or add stealth (always useful) and sense motive to improve your people reading skills.   Use charm spells to persuade people just like the bard would.
#10 SterlingRat May 26, 2015 18:46:24	Why hasn't anyone suggested Knowledge Cleric yet?   You are looking to create a person charged with enforcing laws in a world where each area's laws are drastically different. Your character will have to carry a set of laws with him that he feels are higher than the local baron's law... sounds like a Cleric or Paladin to me.   Knowledge Clerics have any skill they need exactly when they need it, plus expertise in a couple of the knowledge skills that will help you figure out what the clues you find mean.    When you get high enough a level, you can actually do that thing detectives do where they pick up a seemingly unrelated item and tell you all kinds of wierd crap that happened around it.    That's what I was doing, anyway. Be prepared for your DM to hate you, though. Questioning witnesses is generally unpleasant for the witnesses, and your DM is going to be every witness you question. My DM and I went through roleplaying it a couple times; now we just skip it and I make a roll. It was either that or he might accidentally kill me... and my character, too.
#11 supreme_slayer May 26, 2015 19:55:16	When I think investigator, I think Arcane Trickster. After all, it takes a thief to catch a thief, and the spells add a lot of flavor. You can multiclass into Wizard for things such as Locate Object and Identify that you might need.
(Reply to #10) Bloodscythe	SterlingRat wrote:
(Reply to #12) SterlingRat	Bloodscythe wrote:
#14 Danny_Montanny May 27, 2015 7:17:45	Here's hoping your friend likes that type of stuff and writes it into their campaign or you're gonna be super bummed. If they're good at adjudicating, the stats might not play the greatest role, though they shoul still be a reflection of your character as a whole IMHO.   Assuming that the DM will have plenty of ways for your character to shine, there's a few things I'd consider. How educated are they? How much of a connection do they have to the seedier side of life? Do they rely on their knowledge, or more on intuition? Answering who the character is will help you find a class/background that fits your detective concept. I also suggest not worrying about your character being "perfect".
#15 Horwath May 27, 2015 9:40:32	Half elf lore bard and observant feat. Expertise candidates; perception, investigation, insight, perusade, intimidate, deception.
#16 Weedeater May 27, 2015 15:49:47	I was thinking of making a warlock one complete with gruff sidekick familiar. But you might want to multi with rogue in that case to pick up expertise idk. But warlocks get some cool detective abilities such as (essentially) true sight, the best darkvision, reading anything, etc.
#17 Saeviomagy May 27, 2015 19:56:17	I'd probably get some diviner and lore bard (probably bard first), and possibly grab ritual caster (cleric) to get access to augury, divination and zone of truth.
#18 Mommy_was_an_Orc May 28, 2015 8:12:21	I like Rogue 1/Cleric(Knowledge 1) 1/Book Warlock X a lot as an investigator. By 4th level, you have 8 skills from class and expertise in 4 skills. Because you have Cleric, you don't need to invest too heavily in Dex. You gain access to every ritual in the game. You have tons of cantrips including Guidance. You get Telepathy. And some of the invocations are just tons of fun for investigative - Disguise Self at-will, Speak with Dead at-will, eventually seeing the true forms of shapechangers, seeing through even magical darkness, etc... And because you have Eldritch Blast, you'll contribute in combat reasonably well.
#19 SirCabbage May 31, 2015 16:28:23	Thank you all for your insight, suggestions, and most of all your time.   I've made the 'Detective' as a Bard from the College of Lore archetype. So far it's been going well,   Danny_Montanny wrote:
#20 BRJN Jun 01, 2015 17:14:11	SirCabbage wrote: