Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 FrogReaver Jun 25, 2015 1:13:15	Let's look at pure classes for a moment.   One of the easiest to consider is a battle master fighter.  Assuming a 50% chance to hit and 2 short rests and 6 total 4 round encounters in the day:   A battlemaster fighter using a maul will average (8.33+4)*24 + 12d8 + (8.33+4)*3 damage at level 5.  (ignoring criticals)   Level 5 battlemaster fighter 295.92 + 54 + 36.99 = 350.91 total damage in the day   A level 4 fighter will do:     147.96 + 54 + 18.495 = 220.455   That comes out to 59% more damage over the course of a day.   While I don't think anything will be able to completly bridge that gap for a level 5 character there are many options that can get the damage much closer.     However, please keep in mind that other weapons will vary slightly.  For example let's look at a longbow archer --------------------------------------------------------------------------- At level 5 a longbow using fighter assuming 60% accuracy (4.5+5)*48*.6 + 54 + (8.5)*6*.6 =    244.8 + 54 + 30.6 = 329.4   A level 4 longbow fighter does   (4.5+4)*24*.6 + 54 + (8.5)*3*.6 =    122.4 + 54 + 15.3 = 191.7   This comes out to 71.8% more damage. --------------------------------------------------------------   If the 5th level was spent on level 1 rogue instead of the extra attack feature: 3.5*24*.6 = 50.4 damage   With sneak attack added in it's a 36% damage increase by going for extra attack over sneak attack from the rogue (assuming sneak attack can be acheived on every shot).     -------------------------------------------------- So yes you will likely be weaker at level 5.  The question is whether you had enough strengths in the levels preceding 5th level and after 5th level that it compensates for that.
#2 Sorsohka Jun 26, 2015 5:37:46	this is why if you ask to most optimizer about dipping, they will tell you to get your level 5in your main class, then multiclass (excepted for some special purpose build) because the extra attack for martial character and spell level 3 for spell caster is so important, that it's really hard to explain why you took your rogue level earlier.   The same exsit with spell caster: a sorcerer level 5 can cast fireball : 8d6 in a 20ft radius within 150ft from  the sorcerer. a sorcerer 4/wizard1 can cast a level 3 burning hand : 5d6 in a 15ft cone with the origin point being the sorcerer.
(Reply to #2) FrogReaver	The actual point was that a 1 level dip doesn't create nearly as large of a gap as most would have you believe.  36% more damage while important isn't so much more that you lose because of it.  Especially considering that doing such probably increased your early game damage by about the same amount compared to the pure classer.  So yes, you can look at level 5 and say I don't want to be behind at level 5.  Just keep in mind that with the right level dip it's not nearly as big of a gap as they have you believe.