Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 FrogReaver Feb 25, 2015 23:05:01	Rogue's should consider these level dips. 1.  Level 3 Fighter (Archery Style, Action Surge and battlemaster maneuver precision attack) Why?  Rogues hate missing.  All these features help the rogue hit much more often. How?  Use precision attack when it will give you a very good chance to hit.  Use action surge when your base attack roll is too low to hit.     2.  Level 2 Warpriest Cleric (1-5 bonus action attacks based on wisdom mod, +10 to an attack per short rest) Why?  Rogues hate missing.  All these features help the rogue hit much more often. How?  Use the +10 to an attack when it would turn a miss into a hit.  Use a bonus action attack when it will not.   Any other good ideas for rogues to level dip into?  I mean technically 5 levels into any class that gets extra attack, but I don't consider 5 levels as a level dip myself.
#2 FrogReaver Feb 25, 2015 23:40:41	Some math:   It' seems safe to assume the warpriests +10 to attack feature will turn a miss into a hit.  Since you can use this 3 times that means 3 misses into hits. It's safe to assume that warpriests bonus action attack feature will turn 1-3 misses into hits (depending on wisdom modifier)   This means you will turn between between 4 and 6 misses into hits.  This will be at the expense of 1d6 sneak attack damage that would have been done on each of the normally hit attacks.   Assuming a 50% base chance to hit at max level and 24 combat rounds around 2 short rests: You will sacrifice 12d6 sneak attack damage You will gain 10d6 + 5 damage per miss turned into a hit.  This transaltes to between 40d6+20 and 60d6+30 damage.  I think the gains are apparent!   ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ For the BattleMaster fighter:   We will assume a 60% hit rate from the archery style.   That already turns about 2 misses into hits.  =.6*24 = 14.4 instead of 12. Action surge 3 times per day should turn about 2 misses into hits, especially at a 60% chance to hit That leaves about 8 remaining misses and about 12 superiority dice.  This means I can use a superiority dice on each of those misses.     Since I have a 60% chance to hit that means I only miss on a roll of 1 to 8.  My average d8 precision attack roll is 4.5.  That means roughly half of those misses on average should be turned into hits.  That totals to 4 more misses turned into hits.     This should total to about 8 misses turned into hits.  That should translate into about 80d6 +40 damage per day.  This was the gain for sacrificing 12d6 sneak attack damage per day.
#3 FrogReaver Feb 26, 2015 0:01:34	Basically for the sacrifice of 24d6 sneak attack damage per day I can make my character have a very good chance to never miss.  This means I can assume full damage all day.   9d6 + 5 = 36.5 damage (A little more than this considering crits)
#4 Yunru Feb 26, 2015 2:08:41	Ranger 3 (Hunter), depending on campaign and DM.
#5 Eggnogfool Feb 26, 2015 5:36:57	Riposte = extra sneak attack, yes?
(Reply to #4) FrogReaver	Yunru wrote:
#7 1eejit Feb 26, 2015 9:52:08	Barbarian 2 for Danger Sense (advantage on most dex saving throws) and maybe Reckless Attack (if you use Str to sneak attack with a Finesse weapon), plus Rage for damage resistance (which stacks with Uncanny Dodge).
(Reply to #7) FrogReaver	1eejit wrote:
#9 slumgum Feb 26, 2015 10:49:17	Don't forget to calculate Stroke of Luck when you compare dips.  This only applies at level 20 (But most theory crafting on these forums does consider it).  Stroke up Luck, assuming 2 short rests per day, turns 3 misses into hits.
(Reply to #9) FrogReaver	slumgum wrote:
(Reply to #9) 1eejit	slumgum wrote:
(Reply to #4) Coredump00	Yunru wrote:
(Reply to #12) FrogReaver	I consider 3 levels max as a dip.     Though I agreed, going 5 levels in most extra attack style classes is great benefit that shouldn't be overlooked.   Coredump00 wrote:
#14 slumgum Feb 26, 2015 13:14:34	FrogReaver wrote:
(Reply to #14) FrogReaver	Still though I much prefer optimization looking at a particular level between 5-12 or so.   My problem with high end optimization is it mostly centers on building up a class to near max level and then multiclassing the last few levels.  Just seems like a mostly useless exercise that rarely applies to actual game play.  Lower level optimizations do favor actual gameplay for more people.   slumgum wrote:
#16 FunkySpunk Feb 26, 2015 19:32:53	5 or 6 levels of Fighter is perfect for a Rogue.  Gets you a fighting style, action surge, extra attack, and extra feat.
(Reply to #16) FrogReaver	Dont forget superiority dice!!!!   FunkySpunk wrote: