| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| #1ElfcrusherOct 20, 2014 16:24:34 | I want to play a character who uses a longsword, either 1H or 2H, no shield, and either light or no armor. Light offhand weapon ok but not desireable.
Any suggestions for class/sub-class, build, etc?
Barbarian, maybe? |
| #2Danny_MontannyOct 20, 2014 16:53:05 | You don't have much to go on. What do you envision your character being able to do? Magic? Be the best swordsman? Using a longsword and no armor is going to require both high STR and DEX scores.
You could go Warlock and pick up Armor of Shadows as one of your first Invocations for a 13 + DEX AC. Pact of the Fiend will give you some survivability with Datk One's Blessing. Go Blade Pact at level 3 for an early magic weapon, and an extra attack at level 5. |
| #32ChlorobutanalOct 20, 2014 17:03:05 | Warlock, Eldritch Knight (or other Fighter), or Barbarian all seem like reasonable choices. Additionally, an Elf Wizard or Sorcerer could do the same, thanks to racial weapon proficiency and their general lack of armor.
The advantages to a Warlock, Wizard, or Sorcerer should be obvious - you're basically a normal spellcaster but with a special weapon that spellcasters don't normally use. Light armor can be acquired through a feat or just left off in favor of mage armor.
The advantages to a Barbarian or Fighter are that you are a pretty good grappler and yet can use a 2-handed weapon when not grappling. You get to use Great Weapon Fighting style or Brutal Critical decently while still keeping open the option to grapple at any time- Barbarians have advantage on grapples while raging. A Barbarian can supplement the no-armor AC with his or her Con score, but a Fighter would need to probably wear light armor.
Since you have an open hand, you can pick up spellcasting feats or multiclasses relatively painlessly. If you want to go the grappling route, multi-classing as a Rogue to pick up Expertise and Cunning Action may make you a lot more adept at grappling - although a longsword would not mesh with Sneak Attack. |
| #4Moirdryd2Oct 20, 2014 17:04:05 | Why did he/she choose the life perilous of an Adventurer? What family did or does he/she have? Rural or city raised? Why the Longsword (theme, not mechanical reasons)?
These all help. |
| (Reply to #3)Yunru |
|
| (Reply to #5)Danfmac |
|
| #7Coredump00Oct 20, 2014 18:11:16 | Are you tied to a 'longsword' or would a rapier or scimitar work for you?
|
| #8ElfcrusherOct 20, 2014 20:25:37 | Thanks for the all the replies so far.
1) I wasn't thinking of a caster with a sword, but I didn't clarify that either. The warlock idea is interesting, but I'm really envisioning a character who's just really good with a sword. (He doesn't have to be a min-maxed killing machine, and I suspect he won't be, but I'm looking for as good of a build as I can manage.) 2) Longsword because....I like it thematically. Rapier or scimitar would make for an easier build, sure, but it's not what I'm picturing. And greatsword is just too...unwieldy. 3) I don't have a background character concept yet...just the idea that I want a good swordsman who doesn't lug around a suit of metal (I just have never liked the idea that adventurers wear metal armor all day, Dwarves excepted)
So Fighter/Barbarian multi-class might be interesting. Barbarian for armor class and grappling (I hadn't considered the grappling angle...going to read up on it now), fighter for fighting style and reduced crit range. Still have to have both strength and dex, which is kind of a pain. But I guess that's what ability improvements are for. |
| (Reply to #8)forthrightdnd | You can always use a scimitar/rapier/whatever and refluff it into a longsword. This opens up a lot more character configurations without being tied to a very specific weapon. |
| #10LawolfOct 20, 2014 23:15:49 | Options:
1. Rogue using a refluffed rapier. 2. Barbarian with a low Dex. Con can be used for AC do you don't need more than 14 Dexterity. 3. Tavern brawler (1st attack is unarmed, all other attacks are with the sword. Use your bonus action to grapple). 4. Battlemaster Fifghter
Multiclassing will only hurt you in terms of effectiveness. Don't be a champion if you are only using a d8 damage weapon. It just isn't worth it. |
| #11OrwellianHaggisOct 21, 2014 0:17:33 | I'd go barbarian to begin with (rage damage resistance and bonus damage) and multiclass into fighter (for action surge, extra durability from second wind, the dueling fighting style (+2 damage with one weapon in one hand), and the battle master archetype). Depending on how you see the character progressing you could take more barbarian levels (for higher HP gain and extra rage features) or fighter levels (extra manoeuvres and superiority die).
Personally I'd go with barbarian 3, totem path, bear option, and the rest as fighter levels, battle master archetype, picking disarm, trip and push manoeuvres to begin with. |
| #12Danny_MontannyOct 21, 2014 6:04:02 | I would go straight Battle Master. As this is what your character concept most represents. Definitely look at taking the Mobile feat. Positioning will help keep you alive with the lower AC. Defensive Dualist will help as well. I would go variant Human with 16 14 14 10 12 8 stats and the Mobile feat. |
| #13TimboramaOct 21, 2014 6:49:53 |
|
| #14jozuaOct 21, 2014 9:09:22 | Blade bound fiendish warlock would be my first choice, as some have mentioned.
What about a valor bard? Swordplay is his performance. Maybe he is the royal sword master who teaches swordplay to young nobles. You get the extra attack, hand out inspiration dice as you tell others how to improve their form, and boost a ton of skills. You viciously mock your opponent to give them disadvantage and your spells are really just your wit and charm. You would have a bunch to contribute to your group and be a good bard instead of a meh fighter.
Or what about a paladin who uses shield of faith and then uses his other spells to fuel smite?
|
| #15Coredump00Oct 21, 2014 9:24:51 | Talk to you DM, he may be willing to create a Feat to help with the AC issue.
|
| #16ElfcrusherOct 21, 2014 10:23:55 | Lot's of good input, thanks!
I'm liking the battlemaster concept. It does fit thematically. |
| #17TherosOct 21, 2014 11:02:34 |
|
| #18Setzer_GOct 21, 2014 11:24:56 | The "longsword" we see a lot in film can really be more of a rapier. The longsword in the phb is really more of a hand and a half or bastard sword. If your're looking for something Aragorn-y, then the phb longsword is what your're looking for and is definately a Str based thing. A decidedly one handed sword with a long blade can still be longsword-like but still have the balance, grip, and weight of a rapier, being a Dex based thing. Either is viable, but I would go with Fighter in either direction.
as others have mentioned, theres a lot of synergy for dex based swashbucking things. If you're into the sword weilding, light/no armor, weapon as scholarly pursuit kind of guy, maybe Monk/Fighter and use a short sword (which can look longer and still be a "short" sword). |
| #19ElfcrusherOct 21, 2014 23:02:02 | Ok, thanks to the grappling suggestion I think I have a build:
A Fighter (Champion) with Tavern Brawler and Grappler.
Tavern Brawler lets me attempt a grapple with my offhand every round, with Grappler I get Advantage against opponents I've grappled, and with both advantage and the expanded critical threshold of Champion I'll have a 28% chance of getting a crit with every attack (at higher levels), in addition to a reduced chance of missing.
Am I misreading anything in the rules?
Battle Master is probably closer to what I was envisioning...a "sword master"...but the grapple build actually kinda sounds like fun. Grab a bad guy by the collar and beat on him with my sword.
EDIT: THis is starting to smell like a Half-orc |
| #20ElfcrusherOct 21, 2014 23:47:43 | Ok, that raises a question: with Tavern Brawler my open hand attack does 1d4. If I'm doing that with my offhand as a bonus action, would fighter's Two Weapon Fighting style grant ability bonus to that attack? And, if so, does Dueling style still grant the +2 to the mainhand weapon?
And one more question: does Savage Attacker apply to all dice rolled for damage, including criticals? If my Half-orc Champion is getting two extra dice nearly 30% of the time, maybe I want to be rolling 3d8 twice and taking the higher roll. |
| #212ChlorobutanalOct 22, 2014 0:00:23 | Well, some points to clarify:
First, if you attempt a grapple with Tavern Brawler, at least one of your attacks must be an unarmed strike (for 1d4 instead of the longsword's 1d8 or 1d10).
For example:
At level 4, you could swing your longsword for 1d10 (versatile) or you could make an unarmed attack for 1d4 and, if you hit, then use your bonus action for a separate grapple check.
At level 5, you could swing your longsword for 1d10 (versatile) and make an unarmed attack for 1d4 and, if you hit, try to grapple as a bonus action. (Or you could longsword twice, or unarmed strike twice- for instance if you miss the first strike but still want a free grapple).
In lieu of making the unarmed strike for 1d4, you could just choose to grapple instead (and not use your bonus action, but not deal the 1d4+str damage).
Second, unarmed strikes are not "light" and thus cannot be used for dual wielding. Two-Weapon Fighting does not apply to unarmed strikes.
Third, Grappler is kind of a "bad" feat right now because A) the "creatures one size larger..." part doesn't technically do anything right now. B) You can get advantage against a grappled opponent by shoving them prone. (This does require one extra "attack" for the shove, but it saves you a feat slot - your mileage may vary.)
As for Savage Attacker, I don't have my PHB handy, but I believe it would let you re-roll all your dice. Note that this is roughly +1 damage per "die" of your d8 attack, or about +3 damage on a critical hit. That may or may not be worthwhile to you.
If you are going Champion with advantage, you may want to consider the Great Weapon Master feat. The second part (-5 to hit/+10 damage) doesn't work with a longsword, but the first part (an extra bonus action attack on a critical hit or finishing blow) works with any weapon, including longswords and unarmed strikes. |
| #221eejitOct 22, 2014 1:35:52 | You could always refluff a shortsword and use a monk. |
| #23TherosOct 22, 2014 4:14:27 |
|
| #24ElfcrusherOct 22, 2014 8:02:03 |
|
| #25ElfcrusherOct 22, 2014 8:19:44 |
|
| #26YunruOct 22, 2014 8:07:05 | Dual wielding is possible, Two Weapon Fighting is not. Unless you get the feat Dual Wielder (which further confuses the names of the two). |
| #27ElfcrusherOct 22, 2014 8:18:55 |
|
| #28YunruOct 22, 2014 8:30:53 | You can wield two weapons and attack with either. But you can't get a bonus attack just from wielding them unless they're light (or is it just one light) or you have the Dual Wieldr feat. |
| #29ElfcrusherOct 22, 2014 10:25:03 | Oh, now I see the problem: in Tavern Brawler it says if you strike an opponent with an unarmed strike or an improvised weapon you can attempt a grapple as a bonus action. But if that unarmed strikes is the bonus action (i.e., if I'm using a weapon in my mainhand and punching with my offhand) then I've already used my bonus action. So I can't really attempt to grapple as a bonus action; I have to give up an attack to do so.
EDIT: I suppose by the time I get both feats I'll be able to use one attack to make an unarmed attack, the bonus action to initiate the grapple, and then the 2nd attackSince bonus actions are used when the player wants, I can specify that I'm making the grapple attempt in between the first and second attacks. And then on subsequent turns I'll already have the grapple, so will be able to attack normally with both attacks (assuming the grapple isn't broken.)
Correct?
P.S. You know how sometimes you repeat a word too many times and it starts to sound strange? I'm definitely there with 'grapple'. |
| #30YunruOct 22, 2014 10:29:39 | If you've Extra Attack and Tavern Brawler (DM dependent) you could use an Improvised version of a weapon, Shove, Attack and then Bonus Action Grab. No need for Grappler. |
| #31ElfcrusherOct 23, 2014 11:38:32 | I think I'm giving up on this idea. Now I'm leaning toward Half-orc Barbarian with Shield Master. Knock them down, then go crit-fishing with Advantage. |
| (Reply to #31)Finieous |
|
| #33LawolfOct 23, 2014 12:36:35 |
|
| (Reply to #33)Finieous |
|
| (Reply to #34)Timborama |
|
| #36FinieousOct 23, 2014 13:31:04 | I agree with everything you've said, except the "gamey" part. The feat lets you attack with your weapon and bash with your shield in the same turn. Saying, instead, "You can attack with your weapon THEN bash with your shield, but you can't bash with your shield THEN attack with your weapon" would seem "gamey" to me. ;) |
| #37ElfcrusherOct 23, 2014 14:55:20 | I'm with Fin. Knocking somebody down with your shield and then whacking them while they're squirming on the ground doesn't feel exploitive or gamey to me. Effective, yes, but it costs your bonus action, it takes a Feat, it's not guaranteed to work, and they don't lose their turn (and if you have any ranged companions it can actually make things harder for them.)
And just narratively I love the idea of a Half-orc with a shield knocking foes around like bowling pins, regardless of crunch. |
| #38LawolfOct 23, 2014 15:21:50 |
|
| #39SaelornOct 23, 2014 15:51:18 |
|
| (Reply to #38)2Chlorobutanal |
|
| #41ChrisCarlsonOct 23, 2014 19:15:01 |
|
| #422ChlorobutanalOct 23, 2014 19:40:35 | No, sorry - just on your turn. I took that for granted. But if you have multiple actions, such as from haste or Action Surge, your bonus action and movement can be during or between them. |
| #43ElfcrusherOct 23, 2014 19:44:18 | What lawolf is saying is logical, in that if the rules said that I would accept it as reasonable. But as far as I can tell the rules don't say that. |
| (Reply to #41)Finieous |
|
| (Reply to #38)Danny_Montanny |
|