So I just recently joined a 5e campaign, my first D&D game in over 20 years, and rolled up a Level 1 Wood Elf Fighter, primarily attacking with the longbow. His starting stats are: Str - 12, Dex - 17, Con - 14, Int - 10, Wis - 14, Cha - 8. I was allowed to tweak the default Warrior background(making him more of a Scout type), so his starting Proficiencies are Acrobatics, Athletics, Perception, Stealth and Survival. My goal is to be the guy who's first in the Initiative order as often as possible, preferably sniping from the shadows before the enemies even know I'm there. I'm leaning heavily towards taking at least 3 levels in Rogue for Assassinate, so I can eventually try for a surprise Nova Burst round of auto-crits. I'm hoping to take the Sharpshooter feat at some point, as well as Alert(like I said, I want to be going first EVERY time). There are three things I'm still trying to settle on when it comes to my plan for the guy, however:
1) What to do about that single odd-numbered stat. The obvious plan is to take a Resilient feat at some point to even things out. I'm already proficient in Str and Con saves as a Fighter, so the clear choices are Wis or Dex. Any thoughts on which would be more useful? My gut says Wis, since it seems like failed Dex saves are mostly just to save HP, which I should have plenty of as a Fighter. Failing a Wis save on the other hand could impose an unpleasant condition on me. Of course, as a Wood Elf I'm already immune to charm/sleep effects. Plus, Resilient(Wis) will require 3 ASI slots total(1 to raise Dex to 19, 1 for Dex19/Wis15, 1 for Wis16), while Resilient(Dex) will burn one less ASI slot.
2) When's a good time to dip for those Rogue levels? I'm thinking wait until getting the extra attack at Fighter 5, or maybe Fighter 6 to grab that 2nd ASI/Feat slot. I'm not sure if this campaign is going to take us beyond 15 levels total, so I'm not counting on more than 3 Rogue levels, because I definitely want to hit Fighter 11. Whether I go Fighter or Rogue beyond 11/3, I'll decide when I get there.
3) I'm still torn between Champion & Battle Master, though I'm leaning more and more towards Battle Master. The improved critical chance from Champion is REALLY tempting, since between my Stealthiness and Assassinate I should be attacking with Advantage a lot. Plus as Rogue 3 those Sneak Attack dice will multiply on crits as well. But I like the idea of being the guy perched up high, controlling the battlefield with those Battle Master maneuvers.
Any thoughts on good ways to progress this character? A couple of things: No, I don't want any suggestions about other classes. If I'm dipping in anything other than Fighter, it's going to be Rogue. I have nothing against those other classes, but they aren't who this guy is. Also, please keep the feedback light on the math. I'm not trying to micro-manage this guy to death, and I'm not looking to build the absolute most optimal version of this guy. I just don't want to be falling behind my party because I'm making dumb choices at level advancement.
1: Generally Wis > Dex > Con. Unless your a caster and need to make concentration saves, then it's Con > Wis > Dex. As you say, Dex is mostly damage, and AoE damage at that, so even less importaint for someone in the back.
2: IMO: Start rogue for Dex saves and an extra skill. Then fighter 1 for archery style. Then it's a toss up. Either rogue 2 for cunning action, or fighter 6 for multi-attack and feats, then rogue 3.
3: The more rogue you dip, the better champion becomes. But only 3 levels isn't muh, so i'd take battlemaster for precision strike.
I'd go Battlemaster over Champion. The Battlemaster abilities can be applied to damn near everything, I think they're overall much more useful than the static bonus to crit. As a part Assassin Rogue, you'll be critting in the opening round enough. And your Sharpshooter's -5 to attack rolls can be mitigated with a combination of Archery Fighting Style and Battlemaster maneuvers.
At the end, you say you aren't looking to fall behind your party... You won't. What you've already stated to be aiming for is regarded as one of the most talk about DPR builds. Battlemaster/Assassin with Sharpshooter. What you should be worrying about instead of falling behind is other players at the table getting a little jealous at your DPR (Though you know your table, it varies greatly).
As for progression? If you scout ahead of the party, which as a Wood Elf you should be able to do due to its racial ability to blend into natural environments, you should be able to get surprise attacks. That means Alert can wait a little.
Lv4 - Sharpshooter
Lv6 - +2 Dex
Lv8 - Alert
Lv11- Resilient: Dex (This brings you to 20)
Dex saving throws are applied a lot for AoE damage, like Fireball, or Lightning Bolt. Yeah, being in the back (or in a tree or something) should typically mean you aren't in the blast radius when a Fireball is being tossed at your allies. But Dex STs can also be applied to a lot of things. I assume you'll be the scout and taking up positions at high ground. That means a lot of climbing, jumping, etc. It's also going to help you get up there, and to avoid pitfalls and traps.
I'm not saying Wisdom doesn't matter, or that it isn't important. It's the most common mental save. But if you do your job as the "One shot, one kill" kind of guy, then the enemy spellcasters (your first priority) should be dying very quickly to mitigate that.
pdegan2814 wrote:
Wow, some great responses already, thanks guys! Let me try and offer my thoughts on what you guys have said so far:
mellored
1. That's kinda what I was thinking. I'm more worried about being debilitated than about just getting hurt. We do have a Cleric in the party, plus a Barbarian who plans to multiclass Druid, so there should be some healing options available.
2. We already started the campaign, my guy started off at Fighter Lvl 1, didn't give multiclassing serious thought until after we started playing. I'm tempted to dip that first Rogue level right away, for that first die of SA damage and to double my proficiency bonus on two skills(likely Stealth and one other). I'd probably go right back to Fighter for a while unless I was sure to be taking Rogue beyond Lvl 3, I don't want to put off that first ASI too long.
3. Yeah, I can definitely see that, the extra SA dice making those extra Crits that much beefier. Guess I'll need to figure out how deep into Rogue I plan to go before I hit Fighter 3. I like the idea of just being the no-nonsense guy that hits HARD. Then again, we've got a Half-Orc GWF who's planning on going Champion, and some of the Battle Master's maneuver's are pretty nifty. I kinda like the idea of using Goading Attack on a guy, then using the Rogue's Cunning Action to Hide, giving him basically disadvantage against everyone until my next turn.
jaappleton
Yeah, like I said I'm leaning more towards Battle Master right now. Initially I was thinking Champion, just because the abilities were less limited/situational. They were just "always on". Straight-up bonus on skill checks, straight-up bonus on crit chance, etc. As mentioned in my first post it's been over 20 years since I last played, and back then I usually got stuck being the DM because no one else was willing to put in the time or buy the books(this was 1st Edition AD&D days). I enjoyed it, but I practically never got to play a character. I'm still settling in. 
But there are definitely some cool aspects to Battle Master. I'll probably talk it over with the other players, make sure that the maneuvers which would involve them are things they're actually going to want me doing on the battlefield. I just joined up with this group of people, so I'm still getting to know them and am not very familiar with their playing styles yet.
The climbing/jumping/etc stuff you described as needing Dex Saving Throws for actually sound more like things that would involve Skill checks like Athletics, Acrobatics, etc. It's my understanding that the general rule of thumb is Skill checks are for when you do something, Saving Throws are for when something is done to you. I've got proficiency in Athletics, Acrobatics, Perception & Stealth, so I think I'll be pretty well equipped to parkour my way around, Assassin's Creed style.
You're right though that if I'm doing my job right, I'm getting a surprise attack round to take out the caster before he has a chance to force a Wisdom Save on me.
bid
Yeah, my main thought about hitting Fighter 11 is that third attack, 6th when I use Action Surge.
Fighter 5/Rogue 9 is only 3 ASI's though, which matters when there are feats that I want AND stats I want to boost. Fighter 4/Rogue 10 and Fighter 6/Rogue 8 both offer 4 ASI's and leave me two levels away from a 5th if our campaign runs that long. Of course, Fighter 11/ Rogue 3 is also just 3 ASI's. I really don't care about the Assassin's higher-level abilities, the only reason I'd go beyond Rogue 3 is to his the sweet spot for ASI's and for extra SA dice. I have a feeling if I go Champion I'll stop at Fighter 4 and go Rogue up to 10, then switch back to Fighter if the campaign's still going. If I choose Battle Master, it'll basically be the opposite. Stop leveling Rogue at 4(for the ASI), go Fighter up to at least 10, probably 11 for that third attack.
I get that the extra Rogue levels mean more SA damage, but that's only for one attack per turn. It's a question of doing massive spike damage against one target, or spreading the damage amongst multiple targets in one round, especially during a surprise round where you're auto-critting due to Assassinate. Having the multiple attacks gives me the flexibility to focus my fire or spread it around depending on the situation. I'm not sure I want to give that up, even for the massive single-target damage I could do with a higher-level Sneak Attack. If I had to choose right now, I'd probably stop leveling Rogue at 4, and aim for more attacks vs. more SA damage. I think it suits the way I want to approach combat, and suits the kind of character I want him to be. The Deception aspects of Rogue/Assassin aren't really in line with who he is, especially with his Charisma score.
Again, a big thank you for the responses thus far, they were exactly the sort of replies I was looking for, and have given me some valuable insights to consider. Our next session is this Saturday, and we're expecting to hit Level 2 at some point, so I'll have to at least decide whether to get my Action Surge or start dipping Rogue by then.
Hmmm, interesting thread. Having started as a fighter, I would dip in rogue right away to get SA and expertise, and then take my 3rd level as a fighter, so that you would be fighter 2/ rogue 1. Then it all depends on if you want to focus on your assassination or on your round-to-round damage. If you want to be able to assassinate people as eraly as possible, the proceed by taking 2 more levels in rogue, making you Fighter 2/ Rogue 3, and then take 3 levels in fighter, so that you will be fighter 5/ Rogue 3. If you want to focus on your dpr, then after fighter1/ rogue 1, take 4 levels in fighter to get that extra attack, so that puts you at fighter5/ rogue 1, and then take 2 levels in rogue for that assassination feature, putting you again at fighter5/ rogue 3. To sump up, since you started as a fighter, I would suggest to dip in rogue straight away, then take another fighter level for action surge, and then take fighter levels if you want to boost your dpr, or take rogue levels if you want to assassinate people from early game. Granted, your feats/ASIs would be delayed a bit, taking your first at 7 level, your second at level 9, and your third at level 11 (provided you are Fighter 8 / rogue 3), but that is always the price of multiclassing, and I always found class features more important than feats/ASIs.
I would suggest battlemaster over champion, for the reasons people mentioned in the above posts, but also because as you said you already have a champion and your hybrid battlemaster would offer something different in the table, which is cool. And between you and me, the champion is a bit boring (but I guess that is just my humble opinion).
If you become a battlemaster, precision strike is a must, as good mellored pointed out. You might find it very handy on those surprise rounds. I would also go as far as to suggest using expertise on stealth and athletics (since your acrobatics is already good).
Very interesting character btw, hope you ll have fun playing him!
Corran21 wrote:
pdegan2814 wrote:
Something I'm noticing as I'm reading up on things while deciding which stat to become Resilient in, it seems as though a lot of the spells out there that require Wisdom saves are charm effects. As an Elf, I already have advantage on saves against being charmed, does that advantage apply to all of those spells, like Enthrall, Dominate Person, Geas, etc? Plus, as a stealthy SOB attacking from a distance, I'm less likely to be targeted. If so, I'm starting to wonder if maybe it's worth it to go Resilient in Dexterity instead, which will let me even out my stats with 2 ASI slots instead of 3. That would put the Alert feat within reach much sooner(I'd still wait to get it until after Sharpshooter), especially if I stop my Rogue levels before I get stuff like Uncanny Dodge & Evasion. Wis14 is nothing to sneeze at, and eventually Indomitable will let me re-roll at least one disastrous saving throw per day. Is my reasoning sound, or am I just looking for an excuse to free up that feat slot?
pdegan2814 wrote:
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
jaappleton wrote: