Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Ancillary Sep 27, 2014 16:04:15	I am trying to decide on what spells to pick for my College of Lore Bard at 6th.  I decided to try and list out all the choices to help with my and possibly other's decision.  I am only including spells that would be a very strong pick depending on party make-up, so there is no need to color them. Generally your best pick will be one that fills a hole in your party composition.   The way I read it you can't swap these spells for others later on when you level up, or maybe you can but only for spells on the bard list. So I am taking into consideration that it will always be on my list.    Healing Mass Healing Word- This will do work in combat Aura of vitality- for raw healing this wins by a long way (20d6) but awkward in combat Revivify - solves a problem without any other answers   Nuke Fireball - a solid classic Lightning Bolt - an alternate, probably less resisted Scorching Ray - single target   Buff Haste - strong if you have a good target. Crusader's Mantle - strong if you have a lot of targets   Utility Find Steed – Style Points, Movement Find Familiar - all around usefulness, make touch range spells better for you Counterspell - Jack of All makes you second best after Abjurer Shield - dramatic increase in survivability   Hitting People  Blinding Smite - if you are going to do this pick a strong one I guess Shillelagh - you would most likely have built your character with this in mind   With the people I play with I'm between Aura of vitality, Revivify, Lightning Bolt, and Counterspell But I'm definitely looking for feedback.
#2 Gruff_Ironfist Sep 27, 2014 16:49:48	IMHO, this completely depends on your game and allies. The answer will be different if you're the only PC spellcaster and your game is all about challenging combat vs. if you've got a cleric, paladin, and wizard as allies and combats don't tend to drain your resources that much.   For our game, Revivify (for sure) and Aura of Vitality (or Leomund's Tiny Hut or Rope Trick for rests) would be the picks hands down, because our fights are tough and no one else in the group has access to these spells. Bringing back allies, healing them and/or finding a safe place to rest is top priority. We don't face off with enemy casters very often, so Counterspell can be delayed until later. And we tend to "focus fire" rather than do area attacks (spreading out damage [that doesn't drop the foes anyway] never ends up working well for us).
#3 AtomicPope Sep 29, 2014 4:56:11	I said this in another thread:   AtomicPope wrote:
#4 dwgautier Sep 29, 2014 9:16:18	For single target burst I would go Hex and Scorching Ray.  Now you are doing 4 attacks at 3d6 damage each at lvl 6.
#5 2Chlorobutanal Sep 30, 2014 2:48:28	Counterspell (or dispel magic) is indeed somewhat better for a Bard when rolling to dispel, but it competes with the Cutting Words reaction of the College of Lore.  Still, using Jack of All Trades to boost spellcasting is a neat trick.  Shield also competes with Cutting Words, and Cutting Words is about as powerful for a single attack.  If you're getting attacked repeatedly or by magic missiles, shield may have some merit.   If you're looking for sustained damage, spiritual weapon could be a contender.  It competes with your Inspiration bonus action, though, or any other bonus action you may have.   I'm not sure about lightning bolt versus fireball.  My gut feeling is that fireball will hit more creatures on average and be better at avoiding party members.  Also, I believe that a few monsters are vulnerable or afraid of fire and that a few are energized by lightning.  However, the goal of the spell would be to decimate ranks of weak monsters, which generally don't have resistance.  Even if they do have fire resistance, you may end up doing the same or more aggregate damage by hitting twice as many targets.   Shillelagh and find steed are fairly build-dependent spells in my opinion and require some additional planning to truly optimize.
#6 the_move Sep 30, 2014 3:32:03	Would Eldritch Blast and Hex be worth it, or is Vicious Mockery always the better option?
#7 Yunru Sep 30, 2014 3:47:41	Depends how much you're going to be hitting. Support Bard? No. Combat Bard: Yes. 1d6 on all attacks against a target for a single bonus action is awesome. Although Hex means you can't run any other concentration spells.
#8 Zardnaar Sep 30, 2014 4:01:20	I think I would rather get hex via magic initiate feat and take haste as a buff spell as a valorious bard and maybe a paladin spell or 2. An extra +1d6 damage per hit may be cute but faerie fire should probably be the default bard buff spell as it is almost as good as bless anyway. I would also be inclined to level dip a warlock level if you care about hex that much.    Still for a valorious bard hex may be worth it IDK.
#9 Rancid_Rogue Sep 30, 2014 5:18:32	Conjure Animals = conjure win.
#10 mellored Sep 30, 2014 6:24:17	If your going to be using EB + hex, you might as well take 2 levels of warlock.  Bard's 19 and 20 is pretty meh.   Though hypnotic pattern is likely going to do more then hex would.  Similarlly for haste, and crusader's mantle.
#11 utktrumpet22 Sep 30, 2014 7:43:55	I have the same question as the OP. Played our first dungeon the other night and I really just spamed Vicious Mockery to the amazement of the rest of the party. I single handedly managed most of the encounters while the other party members whiffed again and again (short of a well placed guiding bolt by the cleric) and I kept them safe by imposing disadvantage and pecking away with my D4 psychic damage. It was also quite humourous. Bard is fun.   I'm leaning toward one of the following:   Fireball, just to drop a bomb every once in a while. Our DM likes packs of weaker mobs. We do have a Sorcerer, though. Counterspell, because I feel this fits what a Lore Bard should be trying to do, utility support by stopping that incomming bomb. Aura of Vitality, though this is dropping on my list because it apparently isn't great for combat, and we get healing song already. Shield, emergency defense. OR... Mage Armor, I have a 14 AC with leathers on and a +3 dex mod. I'm thinking drop the leathers and use this for a 16 AC at the cost of a levle 1 spell slot. Lightning Arrow, this sounds fun, but maybe not as potent as another crowd control like fireball.   We have a cleric of life, so much of the healing end is covered.
#12 Ashrym Sep 30, 2014 10:26:34	I prefer prayer of healing for more healing. It's not as flexible as aura of vitality but it starts in a lower slot, cures more total hit points, and can be used in higher slots. In combat I like beacon of hope for better cure wounds.
#13 Ancillary Oct 01, 2014 16:55:13	Thanks for the feedback, although my decision is still a tough one.  I changed my list to include scorching ray for single target damage, and noted that revivify is a front runner for my picks.     Just to show I read everything here is my reasoning on not including other suggestions in my list at the top. Hex - undeniably strong, but as this requires other investment to be useful either in feats of futher spell picks like scorching ray it is too niche for a generic top spot. Prayer of healing - Aura of vitality is awkward in combat but the fact it gives the choice knocks this spell off the list for me. Conjure Animals - This scales too poorly in my opinion, I would rather be patient and get a later conjure spell. Beacon of Hope - For this to be top tier I think the party needs another healer, which probably means a cleric who can cast it themselves.  If its you and a druid than its a solid pick. Mage Armor - only giving one more AC than studded makes this less useful than Shield in my opinion, although being armorless is cool.   In previous editions I have found lightning bolt to be equal to fireball, it comes into its own once the battle lines start to get mingled.  There are few better feelings, though, than dropping a fireball on all the enemies to start a fight.   The party my bard is in is made up of a Paladin, Warlock, Barbarian, and Rogue so healing is what is lacking.