Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 KaptainKrunch May 21, 2015 7:32:56	Having Treantmonk back on these boards made me think of the Malconvoker. I'd kind of like to see how that'd work for 5e. Ultimately I'd like to see an official release, but if you guys were to homebrew it, how would you make it work?       The main appeal of the Malconvoker was the Twin Spell effect on summons as well as general benefits to using Planar Binding. I don't think this translates directly into 5e, especially since twinning some summon spells might either make them especially overpowered, or underpowered, depending on how much you think the 1 minute casting time affects you. Ultimately I'd like to keep the theme and idea of the Malconvoker, but not necessarily the same mechanics   Here are some thoughts for benefits the Malconvoker could have: 1. Reduce the casting time of Non-minor Conjure spells - Making it an action might be too good, so maybe 2 rounds for the casting time? That'd make it restrictive, but not necessarily breaking for doing it in combat.   2. Allow you to summon Fiends- I've noticed that this currently isn't possible without Planar Binding/ Planar Ally. I dunno if this was a balance thing or what, but an ability or spell that lets you do this on the fly seems required for the Malconvoker. It doesn't even matter if this is twinned or not, I think, if the CR is good enough to be balanced with other options.   3. Bonus to Charisma Save DCs- Namely for planar binding - which could be explicitely listed in the benefit, but a general bonus to Charisma saves, even a +1, would be extremely good, and still flavorful since Banish also provides a Charisma saving throw. Attaching this benefit to a bluff check would also fit the flavor, since that's how the higher level ability worked with the Malconvoker. "If you succeed a bluff check vs sense motive, they have disadvantage on their next Charisma based save." would work fine.   4. Expertise - Bluff - Mimicks the old 3rd level ability.   5. Increased CR for summons - This would be more meaningful if there already existed a "Conjure" spell that summoned fiends, but I think there's a resasonable argument for this applying to Conjure Fey at least.     I'm thinking since Prestige Classes are the way of the dodo it'd probably be a Subclass (or its own class) but here's some thoughts for how they might be added to existing classes that would make sense.   Wizard - Mostly putting this here to say that, sadly, the Wizard has the least room for it. The Conjuration school already provides benefits to conjure spells and adding a "Malconvoker" school would be redundant and probably overshadow the normal option.   Warlock - From a flavor standpoint this one makes the most sense, but it also has a pretty hard fit. It wouldn't make sense to make it a new Pact since we already have Pact of the Chain, and we already have Fiend Patron. So if we were to give this to Warlock, it'd probably best fit as a few new invocations tied to the Pact of the Chain. For instance an invocation that mimics a conjure spell once per day would be a thought (probably with the Pact of the Chain prereq). This conjure spell would summon a Fey, Fiend, or Abberation depending on who your patron is. Then an invocation that gives Planar Binding called "Malconvoker" would work, though it would be unsatisfyingly underplayed that way.   Cleric - A "Malconvoker Domain" is probably the easiest fit overall from a mechanical standpoint, though from a flavor standpoint it's a little shakey. Still, with 4 class features and a list of spells coming from the domain, the Cleric seems to be the most affected by its subclass, thus making it a great fit to include something like Malconvoker.   Bard - The devil went down to Georgia.... From a flavor standpoint the Bard is a great fit and also gains Expertise at 3rd level as an option for bluffing anyway. Bardic Inspiration uses could be expended to give penalties to Charisma Saves (Powerful yes) and a few dictations could be given for Magical Secrets. The subclass only provides 3 features overall, but I think it could fit here.
#2 Treantmonklvl20 May 21, 2015 8:12:32	I think Malconvoker is a pretty hard fit for 5e.  That said, for the flavor alone, the only "must" is the ability to summon fiends.  In 3.5 "fiendish" was just a template you added to a summoned animal, and then you assumed it was an animal from the lower planes (and it had an Int boost).   Maybe you could work something like that with existing summoning spells.  Summon Elemental could summon an evil elemental from the lower planes for example.   Instead of "twinning" the spell, you could just provide a boost for the "fiendish" property.  Maybe summoned creatures get a +d4 to hit (like a bless) or a boost to damage from flaming teeth/claws (or both).  You could throw in fire resistance or immunity to top it off.   The trick, like any homebrew invention, is finding the right balance so it's a good, but not overpowered character option.   As for adding a Warlock Patron - keep in mind that Malconvokers weren't evil and weren't allied to the lower planes - quite the opposite, a Malconvoker was someone who was tricking the evil creature to work against other evil.  This means you would definitely need a patron quite different from "fiend".  Maybe more of a "trickery" patron or something.  Pact of the chain wouldn't need any change at all.   Wizard: I would just modify the "conjuration" school to have powers that aid in the summoning/binding of evil creatures (call it a sub-school, or increased specialization).  This would work pretty well I would think.  Switch out minor conjuration for Cha save proficiency.  Switch out Benign Transposition for the ability to summon "fiendish" creatures as suggested above.   Focused Conjuration and Durable Summons are both appropriate for the Malconvoker and I wouldn't change them at all.
#3 awaken_D_M_golem May 21, 2015 16:18:15	KaptainKrunch wrote: