Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Mephi1234 Dec 09, 2014 9:53:21	So, I'm messing around with a few different characters lately.    The question of Martial Adept comes up in my gaming group.  Now, access to manuevers is pretty nice.   Being able to trip, or rattle, or disarm is the kind of thing many melee specialists would tend to learn.    It just feels like getting one superiority die a rest feels kind of... weak.   A waste of a feat that barely lets you execute any of the techniques you just invested a fair amount in to learn.    Even the Fighter guide seems to hint that its not worth the investment for the extra die, and they get lots of spare feats.   Is there something with the feat that my group is missing missing?    Has someone had a good experience with Martial Adept that they'd be willing to share on how investing in the feat is good?   Some combat tricks that are worthwhile?   Are there magic items in the DMG to improve the number of dice you can use, kind of like we've seen a few that can replenish your spell slots?     Even just a theory build?
#2 mellored Dec 09, 2014 10:08:22	It's a bad feat.     Like you said, the manuvers are nice, but 1 die is just not enough.   I houseruled it to 2 dice, but i still havn't had any takers.   As for possible uses... Commander's strike can be pretty strong in the right party.  The wizard can hand an attack to the rogue, which would easily beat his cantrip. Feinging Attack doesn't require a weapon, and can give you advantage on contagion. Rally can be quite powerful at level 1, if your solo.  Though that quickly loses it's charm, and inspiring leader works in any kind of group. Menencing attack with a bow is simply good.
#3 cowleymen Dec 09, 2014 10:23:51	Its mostly about the number of dice you get. I agree that it should be two die instead of one. However, then your just one behind a full fledged Battle master, and then it would almost become manditory for them to take it. To be honest I love thinking about wonky ways to make manevurs work with bows. Gives a lot of fun. One thing ive noticed, Aragon , Gimili and Legalos are all fighters!!! Human and Elf are battlemasters with their fun tricks and styles, Gimili is just a Champion, basic good tech. and he hits hard alot!
#4 Mephi1234 Dec 09, 2014 11:05:50	cowleymen wrote:
#5 cowleymen Dec 09, 2014 11:57:02	Heres another question, would you let a battle master with that feat increase the Feat Superiority from d6 to a d8? and could they use any of the three Manuvers from the subclass, or the two Feat manuvers, with either one Set of Superiority die?
(Reply to #5) Varden_Khol	cowleymen wrote:
#7 Devilbass Dec 09, 2014 12:28:25	I think at two dice, it becomes worthwhile. No one in any of the groups I play in have even considered it as it's written.
#8 Mephi1234 Dec 09, 2014 15:24:30	Well, the standard for a feat is supposed to be "Worth +2 to an attribute."    The manuevers, on average, add 3.5 damage to a single attack once a rest, two rests a day, for an average of 10.5 damage a day.     Plus, a little extra thing on the side  - we'll say granting advantage, since that seems to be something that pops up a couple of times (that, or add the die to your roll or AC, which is slightly worse).    So, ~ +25% accuracy (increase from and 3.5 damage three times a day.       Just with a +1 bonus to your main attack stat, over 6-8 encounters a day, three rounds a battle (average 7 x 3 = 21 rounds a day) we'll say, at (50% - 5% = 45%) miss rate - that's an average of 11.5 damage... at level 4.   Double that at level 5 for pretty much every melee class.   Now, assuming a high end weapon of 2d6, hitting with 25% chance increase, and just 50% of hitting that 10.5 increase for hitting normally without advantage, assume 2d6 weapon for best case scenario...  3 * (.25 (2d6 + 4 str + 3.5 damage) + .5 (3.5)) = 3 * (.25 (7+4+3.5) + 1.75) = 3 (.25 * 14.5 + 1.75) = 3 * 5.375 = 16.125 damage increase a day.     Now, short of using Commander's Strike with a Paladin Smite or a Rogue Sneak Attack, I think my math is working out with that particular manuever.   If we looked at one of the other ones, such as Sweeping Attack that deals your Superiority Dice in damage to the guy to the immediate side (50% miss chance), its going to effectively just be a straight damage bonus we're talking - 7 damage over 3 rounds, with miss chance, for 10.5 damage...         The math seems to be working out to be slightly less than a +2 attribute increase before level 5.   And that's just pure combat damage -  it should be higher, because Strength and Dexterity are also very big attributes for exploration, plus Dex-builds miss out on the AC boost.    At this point, I'm wondering if there should be a small boost even beyond just the two superiority dice.   In a vaccum, I'd say its strictly worse than an attribute bump even after we double the amount of superiority dice the feat gives.
#9 bonethug0108 Dec 09, 2014 16:26:16	Change it to add +1 to Dex or Str. That keeps it from stepping on the fighter's toes and adds the ommph to it.