| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
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| #1HeirRaktusSep 19, 2014 6:06:10 | I was reading some replies from Sage Advice when I realized that I didn't understand how some combinations went together to build up into a whirling dervish of blows. What character combos could give you the maximum number of attacks at the lowest levels possible? |
| #2JRutterbushSep 19, 2014 6:59:49 | Fighter 5/Monk 2 can get you the ability to make 10 attacks in a single turn, once per short rest. It requires the Battlemaster, and four of the attacks aren't new attacks, and deal only 1d8 damage. You also have to be using unarmed strikes or monk weapons (though short sword counts).
Extra Attack: 2 attacks Flurry of Blows: 2 attacks (must be unarmed) Action Surge: 2 attacks Sweeping Strike: 4 attacks (although each "attack" requires one of your other attacks to have already hit)
Then, for one other turn before a short rest, you get four attacks (extra attack plus flurry of blows), then you get three attacks per turn using Martial Arts otherwise. Three attacks at level 5 is the most you'll ever get at that level... at least for at-will attacks. |
| #3melloredSep 19, 2014 7:03:26 | Level 11 ranger, attacking a pixie mosh pit.
Could get 1000+ attacks. |
| #4YunruSep 19, 2014 7:10:19 | Lvls 1-4: Monks can "nova" for 3 attacks, otherwise tieing with a Human [Variant] with Crossbow Expert or Polearm Master, with 2 attacks per turn every turn. Lvls 5-10: Monks can "nova" for 4 attacks (this is also the most they'll nova for without MCing), although with more consistancy. Again Fighters (with the previously mentioned feats) tie here, at 3 attacks per turn every turn. Lvls 11+: The Fighters win it. No other class gets as many attacks per turn as a Fighter (with feats) now does. Although the last extra attack isn't until 20 so you may wish to MC at this point.
Overall a Fighter 11/Monk 9 will probably be the best for numbers of attacks, with a standard 4 per turn (Extra Attack nets you 3, Martial Arts nets you 1 as a bonus action, with the possibility of Flurrying for 2 instead, then there's Action Surge and Sweeping Strike) The full Nova would consume 8 Superiority Dice, 1 Action Point and 1 Ki:
That's a very grand total of 16 attacks on your Nova. |
| #5melloredSep 19, 2014 7:25:23 | Warlock 1 / sorcerer 3 / Fighter 2 / any 5
Quicken eldrich blast + eldrich blast + action surge = 9 attacks.
6 more levels of any class (likely sorcerer for the power points) and it goes to 12 attacks. |
| #6YunruSep 19, 2014 7:37:46 | Actually I was wrong. A Fighter 11/Monk 9 has a maximum of 14 attacks not 16, due to only having a max of 6 Superiority Dice.
Not actually an issue since you can just swap out two of those attacks you would've Sweeping Attack'd with for Grabs, prone them with Flurry of Blows and thus actually increase the DPR. Oh and of course, 6 of those attacks have to be against a different target than the triggering attack. |
| #7melloredSep 19, 2014 7:44:27 | But the real answer is necromancer + animate dead, with animate objects tossed in for good measure. Add valor bard to get an extra attacks of your own, without looseing spell slots.
Swift quiver is another option, though, not a winning one. |
| (Reply to #7)1eejit |
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| #9SorxoresSep 19, 2014 7:50:53 | In a round you get 1 action 1 bonus action 1 reaction and 1 move. At the moment, the move action cannot be used to make an attack leaving only 3 action type to attack.
ACTION: The attack action can do 1 attack then the barbarian/paladin/ranger/fighter gain a second attack at level 5 and the fighter gain a 3rd attack at level 11 and a 4th one at level 20. Action surge : The Fighter lvl 2 do 2 action per turn once per short rest and twice per short rest at lvl 17. Warlock Invocation lvl 5 let you do 2 attack with your pact blade weapon Haste (spell lvl 3) give you 1 extra action as well but allow just 1 weapon attack only) on every turn for concentration 1 minute (10 rounds)
BONUS ACTION: Two weapon fighting: everyon can use this is they use 2 light weapon to receive a bonus action for 1 extra attack Great weapon master: give you 1 bonus action to attack once IF you use a Heavy weapon and kill a creature or deal a critical hit. Very reliable specially if you attack hordes of small monster, considering that goblin has 6 HP and your great weapon will deal on 2d6+3 so on average 10 damage at level1). Fighter champion increase your crit range, increasing your chance for a crit and therefore increasing the chance to gain an additional attack. Polearm master: give you a bonus action for 1 attack IF you use a quarterstaff, glaive or halbert for 1d4+mod damage Crossbow Expert: give you a bonus action for 1 attack IF you use a one hand weapon and have a hand crossbow ready. Flurry of blow: give you 2 attack on a bonus action at the cost of 1 ki point and must be unarmed War priest: give 1 attack on a bonus action IF you used your action to attack and IF you are a war domain cleric (# of time = WisMod per long rest)
REACTION: Polearm master give you a reaction when enemy approach you AND a constant attack as a bonus action Mage slayer let you use your reaction for an attack if a creature cast a spell 5ft from you Wrath of the storm: If an ennemy deal damage within 5ft you can use your reaction do deal damage (# of time = WisMod per long rest) |
| #10HeirRaktusSep 19, 2014 8:10:34 |
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| #11melloredSep 19, 2014 8:16:45 |
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| #12HeirRaktusSep 19, 2014 8:30:02 | Does Eldritch Blast constitute an attack action?
Master Blaster v2 Race: Human lvl4: +2 Charisma lvl5: Otherworldly Patron, Pact Magic lvl6: Eldritch Invocations (Agonizing Blast, Eldritch Spear) Lvl7: Extra Attack (1)
Eldritch Blast d20+8 / d10+10 12 Blasts on a surge, 9 Blasts till you run out of Sorcery Points |
| #13melloredSep 19, 2014 8:35:54 |
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| #14HeirRaktusSep 19, 2014 8:58:25 | Welp, corrected that mistake then! Third Question: Does Eldritch Blast scale by Warlock level or Character level?
Master Blaster v3 Race: Human lvl4: +2 Charisma lvl5: Otherworldly Patron, Pact Magic lvl6: Eldritch Invocations (Agonizing Blast, Eldritch Spear) lvl7: Spellcasting, Draconic Bloodline (Draconic Resilience)
Eldritch Blast d20+8 / d10+10 9 Blasts on a surge, 6 Blasts till you run out of Sorcery Points |
| #15BillyCormanSep 19, 2014 8:44:26 | I know this is more on the theory side for attacks, but is this build better for damage than a pure Warlock or Sorcerer? |
| (Reply to #11)Sorxores |
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| #17melloredSep 19, 2014 10:22:20 |
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| (Reply to #17)BillyCorman |
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| #19melloredSep 19, 2014 10:38:44 |
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| #20NachturnusSep 19, 2014 12:24:59 | Specifically Dragon Sorcerer 3. |
| #21BillyCormanSep 19, 2014 12:30:47 | Thanks.
I can't get to this Monday's upcoming session, but I'll attend the one after that (29th?). I can get a better idea of the group and what they'd need. Again, as this build seems to be somewhat of a glass cannon, I'm hoping for a more traditional party. This way I can just open up during combat and relax at other times. |
| #22DireachSep 19, 2014 13:25:19 |
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| #23BillyCormanSep 19, 2014 15:28:30 | Thanks.
I liked the group I played with on Saturday. Trouble is, I'm a college football junkie and 1-5 on a Saturday just kills it. Also, I have something preplanned the next scheduled meeting. I'm the unreliable piece in that group currently.
I see what I can find via your suggestion. |
| #24HeirRaktusSep 19, 2014 19:46:42 | If you targeted one creature with all the rays of a higher level Eldritch Blast, could you then Twincast it? |
| #25melloredSep 20, 2014 11:06:57 |
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| #26HeirRaktusSep 20, 2014 12:04:34 |
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| #27melloredSep 20, 2014 12:15:25 |
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| (Reply to #27)HeirRaktus | Kind of funny that you posted the Warlock 17/Sorc 3 as your DPR canadite, where I got the idea of the reverse being true. :-) |
| #29melloredSep 21, 2014 9:47:15 |
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| #30Grichter7Sep 26, 2014 6:47:55 | It is possible to cast a twinned Eldritch Blast and a Quickened Eldritich Blast in the same round, therefore getting even more attacks?
Example - Fighter 5/Sorcerer 5/Warlock 1
1st attack - Twin EB - 6 rays Quicken EB 3 rays - bonus action 2nd attack - can only be a cantrip - EB 3 rays Action Surge - can only be a cantrip - EB 3 rays
15 rays
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| #31melloredSep 26, 2014 6:56:48 |
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| #32Danny_MontannySep 26, 2014 7:32:54 | How is it any more cheesy than a twinned Fire Bolt? Cause one attack roll vs four? Only one +Cha damage vs debatably four?
Just because EB can target more than one, it doesn't mean it has to. Did the spell target only one creature? Yes? Then it can be Twinned to target a second creature. Now if somebody wanted to target more than one creature with the second spell, that'd be a no, as it's not really the first spell's twin. |
| #33melloredSep 26, 2014 7:37:39 |
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| #34awogamanSep 27, 2014 21:21:30 | I don't think it's that much of an argument to say that "one target other than yourself," means it can't have an area effect and can't have a range of self. So I'm not seeing what the debate of Twinning Eldritch Blast is? Retawdud powerful? Yes, but that's prolly the idear of this thread, to come up with the most badass whirling death machine characters.
Each ray targets 1 creature at a time.
I forget, what did Merls say about adding ability modifier damage to multiple blasts / rays / magic missiles, etc.?
Did he say you get your mod on each one or total? I thought he had said each one but I could be making that up. But if that's what he said then that would further back up the intent that it's a ok to twin EB.
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| #35HeirRaktusSep 28, 2014 19:52:45 | "You can use only one Metamagic option on a spell when you cast it, unless otherwise noted." |
| #36dwgautierSep 28, 2014 22:37:23 | 17 sorc, 1 warlock, 2 fighter
Twined 9th lvl sorching ray for 10 attacks on two targets. Action Surge do it again but with an 8th lvl slot. Quicken an Eldritch blast just for fun at the target you have hex on.
Target 1 took 23 attacks, Target 2 took 19 attacks
*stands up and walks out of the room dusting off his hands* |
| #372ChlorobutanalSep 28, 2014 23:19:00 | I also agree that Twin Spell does not affect multi-attack-roll spells such as scorching ray, magic missile, or eldritch blast.
My reasoning is:
Anyway, spell attacks aren't generally as damaging as physical attacks.
I also don't think that Sweeping Attack should count as a separate attack, because you don't make an attack roll for Sweeping Attack and the "attack" damage is very small: 1d8 to 1d12 with no modifiers, as I understand it. It's basically the same thing as using "Tripping Attack" on one target in terms of damage, except that the damage is distributed among two targets.
I think 10 attacks per turn is the most we're going to see from a warrior-type. Fighter 20 can do this naturally, other classes may be able to re-create this at lower levels with multi-classing, but it's more or less a wash in the end.
Fighter 20 Attack Action - Extra Attack (3) [4 attacks] Action Surge Attack Action - Extra Attack (3) [4 attacks] Haste Action - Attack [1 attack] Bonus Action Attack - Polearm Master / Great Weapon Master / Two-Weapon Fighting [1 attack]
Assuming a huge number of closely packed targets, a Hunter Ranger has good options for attacks.
Ranger 17, Fighter 2 Volley Action with Horde Breaker - 16 targets [17 attacks] Action Surge Volley Action - 16 targets [16 attacks] Haste Action - Attack [1 attack] Bonus Action Attack - swift quiver effect [2 attacks] Total: 36 attacks*
(*Volley is considered "one attack with multiple attack rolls," but that's effectively separate attacks as far as I'm concerned. You would get to roll 36 attack dice in this made-up scenario.) |
| #38FrogReaverSep 30, 2014 16:46:31 | Haste? Reaction attacks? Opportunity attacks?Bonus action attacks? Multi attacks?
At lvl 6 a valor bard that hastens himself and has the pole arm mastery feat and uses a halberd gets 4 attacks per turn plus and a possible opportunity attack. Or just two weapon fighting with short swords and stay dex.
And he can meta game the dm by using shield spell alot. Dm will likely subconsciously not target a character that uses shield alot quite as often |
| #39FrogReaverSep 30, 2014 17:40:27 | I personally think the ranger makes a good dervish style. His lvl 3 feature gives an extra attack if near another creature. Go two weapon fighting and that and he reaches 3 attacks at lvl 3. At lvl 5 he gets 4 attacks. Though one must be against a different creature.
pretty much the only ways to get to 4 attacks per turn at lvl 5 all have restrictions on at least one of the attacks. Situational or hard per day/per short rest limits. |
| #40gworSep 30, 2014 19:16:46 |
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| (Reply to #17)-Aribeth- |
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| #422ChlorobutanalOct 01, 2014 19:44:51 | There's not an explicit statement in the rules (PHB) themselves that say "cantrips scale with your (character level)," because "character level," as opposed to "class level" is not a defined term in the game.
However, even though eldritch blast is highly regarded and often utilized by Warlocks, it is not a "Warlock class ability." It's just a spell, which could be learned by characters of many different classes. Cantrip scaling uses the word "level", just like the true polymorph and shapechange spells use the word "level" to mean total level. There is no need to explicitly say "character level" or "total level" in these cases. There is also no assumption in 5e of any spell scaling by "caster level," also not a defined term in 5e, so there is no competing rule to override.
There have been numerous tweets from the rules' authors stating that all cantrips (including eldritch blast) count your total multi-classed level in the case of multi-classed characters, as the spells just say "level." |
| (Reply to #41)bid |
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| (Reply to #42)-Aribeth- |
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| #45YunruOct 05, 2014 9:41:45 | Think I can push the previous 14 up to 16: Monk/Fighter Battle Master: Action Surge -> Two actions Haste already up -> Extra attack per attack action Two attack actions: 8 attacks, spend all your superiority dice for a further 6 against a different target. Flurry of Blows: 2 attacks as a bonus action. For fun you could also throw in a Stunning Strike on the first attack. |
| #46melloredOct 05, 2014 12:53:53 | Can allies help?
Magic intitiate + wacaster can net you 4 more with eldrich blast. If an ally uses disonant whispers to make the enemy provoke an OA. |
| (Reply to #44)bid |
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| (Reply to #44)awogaman |
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