Meditation, Mediation, Devastation: A Monk's Guide
How does one Monk? A Monk is a fast, hit and run style character. They get in, they trash the place, they get out. They are, without exception, the fastest class, and the only thing that could improve that is dipping two levels into Rogue for Cunning Action.
Stats:
Strength: Thanks to your Martial Arts, you can completely ignore Strength in most cases. If, however, you want to make a Grappling Monk, this will be your main stat.
Dexterity: AC, Intitaitive, Attacking and Damage, all of it can be done with Dexterity for you. Even if this isn't you're main stat, you're going to want it quite high for the first two reasons.
Constitution: You don't want to get hit. Both your playstyle and your Hit Dice suggest you really don't want to get hit. But more likely than not, you will get hit at some point. And have HP when you do is good.
Intelligence: Monks are wise, not book smart. But really, intelligence does nothing for you.
Wisdom: Your ability to spot the hidden, the saving throws you inflict, and a large portion of your AC will all come from your Wisdom. That said, it's not as essential as Dexterity, so if you're stuck between which to boost, Dex first.
Charisma: All that time meditating hasn't really helped your social skills much.
Class Features:
Unarmored Defense: Your stuck with it and it scales slowly. Good news is the only class that can out-AC you by level 20 is the Barbarian. Well, assuming you maxed Wisdom and Dexterity. Unfortunately it doesn't work with a shield, unlike the Barbarian's.
Martial Arts: Now you're talking. This is, without a doubt, the easiest way to get a bonus action attack with full modifiers, ever. Also all your Monk weapons (including your Unarmed Strikes) can run off of Dexterity.
Two very important things to note here: Both the damage die and the using of Dexterity are optional. You'll want your Unarmed Strikes to use the Monk's damage die for sure, but stick with a weapon until 5th level at the earliest (11th if you're using a Versatile weapon two-handed).
Ki: Ki, all your really good stuff revolves around Ki. You have to pace yourself, as it only regenerates when you rest (short or long), but when you do use it, it can be brutal. You also get your Ki Save DC defined here, it's exactly what you'd expect it to be.
- Flurry of Blows: In most cases, if you're going to spend Ki, it's going to be here. Especially if you're an Open Hand Monk.
- Patient Defense: It can be useful, namely because it lasts longer than Disengaging.
- Step of the Wind: Outclassed If you pick up Cunning Action, but otherwise being able to not provoke when you retreat is good.
Unarmored Movement: You're a squishy striker, having enough speed to get in, do your job and get out is essential. Being able to water walk and go Matrix style is also cool.
Deflect Missiles: Reducing the ways you can effectively be attacked is good. Being able to redirect attacks is just icing on the cake.
Slow Fall: Or as I call it "Why Not Jump". The amount of times you'll be falling will vary quite massively, but it's handy to have when you do.
Extra Attack: More attacks is good. Plain and simple.
Stunning Strike: But when combined with this, well. Stun on your first strike and your second (and possibly your Flurry) has advantage. It can't attack you, can't move and can't make Strength or Dexterity saving throws.
Ki-Empowered Strikes: Not that you have a choice about it, but this is needed for keeping up late-game.
Evasion: This lets you make a Badass Dexterity Saving Throw to allow you to stare down avoid area attack's damage. Combined with your speed and Deflect Missiles there's no easy way to hit you if you're not in melee range.
Stillness of Mind: Yet more ways to stop you being locked down. Charmed and Frightened are bad when you want to take someone out, spending an action to avoid that, while painful, is your best course of action while under either.
Purity of Body: Flat out immunity to Poison and Disease is nothing to sneeze at.
Tongue of the Sun and Moon: It's use depends entirely on how much your DM uses other languages. That and in general most things speak Common.
Diamond Soul: Look closer. Do you see it? All saving throws. So that includes Death Saving Throws. Not that great since you want to avoid being in that situation in the first place, but helpful when you've no choice.
Timeless Body: Unless your campaigns last for a century or more, this is basically useless.
Empty Body: Ignoring the second part, unless your opponents have True Sight you are going to want this in every combat. Even if they have True Sight you might still want it for the damage resistance. And it's all concentrationless. Even better (somehow) if you've Cunning Action (Rogue 2), as you can sit next to the enemy completely hidden and Stun them if they move away.
Perfect Self: Varies by how much you spend your Ki points. If you manage to burn through all 20 before a short rest, this can tide you over. Just be sure to spend them all, as you don't get any if you've 1-3 Ki Points remaining.
Sub-Classes:
Way of the Open Hand:
In my opinion, the strongest of the sub-classes. It contains the only save-or-die in the game and consumes the least Ki. It also only has one less-than-black feature.
Open Hand Technique: So that 1 Ki, 2 attack Flurry of Blows? Just got even better. You can tag any one of these three on the end of each attack Flurry gives you at no cost.
Wholeness of Body: For when you are hit, having healing in your pocket never hurt.
Tranquility: Sanctuary just isn't that good. Can have situational uses though.
Quivering Palm: Meet the only Save-or-Die left. It costs you your action to invoke (but not to set up), and lasts at least 17 days so you can use it for RP purposes too. Only works on one creature at a time, but it doesn't say it doesn't work multiple times on one creature. Although the action cost of invoking all those would make it situation that you'd have more than one in effect.
Way of Shadow:
As you might expect, the Way of Shadow focuses on stealth, making them more the assassination type. I rate them less favourably than Open Hand because the advantages Open Hand gives you are unique, where as Shadow merely enchances stuff they could already do. The best Way of Shadow Monks will want to multiclass Rogue at some point past 6.
Shadow Arts: Most of these are situationally useful, but the Ki cost is kind of a buzzkill. You're better with the Warlock's Devil's Sight + Darkness combo.
Shadow Step: The best manueverability you can get. There are very few ways to teleport, let alone at-will, so to be able to get it at-will with the cost of only a bonus action? Even better if you dip two levels into Warlock for the Devil's Sight + Darkness combo.
Cloak of Shadows: A lesser Empty Body, but seven levels earlier and doesn't require Ki. Breaks too easy for my taste, especially given the action cost. Better if you have a way of making a bonus action attack that doesn't require your main action to be used to attack, as then you can bonus action attack while invisible and re-invis with your action.
Oppertunist: Stand next to a creature, if it's hit, you can hit it with your reaction. Better if you've Sneak Attack.
They're ****. Water Whip is the only redeeming feature. Why? Because everything else uses your main Action which is better spent punching stuff. That said, Jordan175 made a guide on it. EDIT: As of Eratta, they're fully ****.
Races:
Dexterity and Wisdom are your two most important stats, normally in that order. That said, thanks to bounded accuracy it is possible to do well with any of the races. Hyperlink races are homebrew that probably will be close to the offical material when released.
Hill Dwarf: Doesn't boost your attack stat, but it's a hefty bonus to Con (and thus your HP). Plus it boosts your Save DC stat and your AC. 25 speed isn't really a problem, thanks to Unarmored Movement. Darkvision is always nice to have. Toughness is great.
Mountain Dwarf: You're locked into making a strength build with this race. You get two +2s so you can spread the love stat wise if you so wish. 25 speed doesn't hurt for the above reason and Darkvision is as nice as always.
High Elf: +2 Dex. Darkvision. Keen Senses. Fey Ancestry. That is what makes you good. Everything else can be disgarded.
Eldarin: As above, but Misty Step is awesome so a higher rating.
Wood Elf: Good stats, good speed. Darkvision is good. Keen Senses is good. Fey Ancestry is really good. Superior Hiding, not so much - generally you want to use your action for other stuff.
Drow: Buffs a useful stat (Dex) and a useless stat (Cha), but that's not why you're here. Average speed, but that's not why you're here. Superior Darkvision, which will be made redundant for why you're here. Proficiency in Perception is never bad, as is being immune or resistant to stuff. Sunlight Sensitivity can be bad but ties into why you're here: Drow Magic. Combined with two levels of Warlock and you can run the Darkness + Devil's Sight combo. Yes yes, some will argue it's ally unfriendly (it's not), but even if your DM is "one of those", you're here because you're a Shadow Monk - You can just teleport to the enemy, attack and then run out of the way. You could simply take another level in Warlock, or use some Ki (but a level in Warlock is more Ki friendly), and not need to rely on Drow Magic though, which is why it's not Light Blue.
Lightfoot Halfling: Don't. You're not bad per say, but you'd be better as a Stout Halfing. Cha does nothing for you, Naturally Stealth does little for you.
Stout Halfling: +2 Dex is good, +1 Con not so much. Unarmed Movement counters your lower speed so it's not as much of an issue as with other classes. Lucky lets you reroll a fumble, which is rare but useful. Better chances at not being Frightened (Brave) is good. Moving through opponent's spaces could be useful, if you want to eat an OA. Personally I'd just go around them.
Human: +1 All is surprising quite good here. Normally half of the +1s have very little effect, but with the Monk you could go 8/15/15/8/8/15 to get 16s in your Dex, Con and Wis.
Variant Human: As a Monk you'll want stats more than you want feats. That said, having a feat can help. Variant Humans are awesome in that they're the only race that can get a feat from the start. You have to default 30 feet speed and +1 to two stats (Dex and Wis, or Str and Wis). Currently you're also the only race to be able to get +2 Wisdom out of the gate.
Dragonborn: Stats do nothing for you, and neither does your breath.
Forest Gnome: You can't be controlled easily by magic, and you've Darkvision. unfortunately you've only got a +1 to a primary stat and 25 feet speed.
Deep Gnome: See above.
Rock Gnome: See above, only worse because you don't even get the +1 Dex.
Half-Elf: You get an extra skill if you need it, Darkvision and Fey Ancestry. +2 Cha isn't anything special, but at least you get two +1s to other stats.
Half-Orc: Your stats and Relentless make you out to be a good grappler monk, allowing a 14/14/13/8/14/8 pre-racial. Just don't try going Dex/Wis.
Tiefling: Hellish Resistance might be useful and you might be able to do something with the acquired Hellish Rebuke. Other than that it lacks synergy.
Aasimar: Wis good, Cha bad. More situational than Tiefling due to more situation spell selection.
Aarakocra: I rated a race gold. Yup. Aarakocra make such good Monks it feels dirty. Fly speed is just perfect for a Monk's hit 'n' run playstyle and the stats are in all the right places.
Goliath: Barbarians, not Monks.
Blue: Thri-Kreen: Your stats line up, and Chameleon Carapace can be useful for Way of the Shadow Monks.
Feats:
Bounded Accuracy lessens the blow a lot, but in the end you're still a dual-prime class. And with only 5 stat bumps/feats (less if you MC), feats are going to be very rare if you want to max both stats. That said, I'm only going to list feats worth taking.
Mobile: If you're looking to fill that last ABI, or just aren't as worried about maxing both stats, Mobile is a great choice. Each enemy you target in melee can't attack you once you retreat. Better than Disengage in that things that can counter Disengage can't counter this, and it's more action economy efficient.
Alert: With your ability at crowd control, going first is good. Even better considering if your party is Surprised you can still probably outspeed and stun the enemy. Doesn't come with a stat boost though.
Lucky: Another one for the "spare space" pile, this lets you add a d20 to the dice your rolling for attack rolls, ability checks or saving throws (so everything), 3/long rest. The really cool bit? You pick which of the dice you use. This is more specific than (Dis)Advantage rules, so if you've either it's a case of "Roll 3, take highest." Your DM might rule you can pick either the Lucky die, or the result of your roll with (Dis)Advantage, in which case it's not as powerful, but still powerful.
Magic Initiate: This is an interesting one. It lets you pick up Shillelagh, allowing you to use Wisdom for your main attacks, basically replacing Dexterity with Wisdom for the position of "Main Stat". Dex is still important though because your bonus action attacks all use Unarmed Strike.
Observant: +5 to Passive Perception and Lip Reading isn't normally worth all that much, but if you've an odd score in one of Wisdom or Dex, patch it up with this.
Resilient (Wisdom): Alternatively patch it up with this. Wisdom Saving Throws are normally for controller effects too. Redudant once you reach level 14 though (although the +1 doesn't hurt).
Skulker: Lets you hide easier and misses don't break Hidden. Can be important for stealth Monks.
Multiclassing:
Before immediately jumping on these: Multiclassing more than 1 level will cost you an ABI unless you go for a full four levels, in which case you lose Monk features. That said, the ratings do take that into account.
Wizard 2: Divination Portent. Yes. Just, yes. Twice a day you can make an enemy suck, or ensure succes for yourself, depending on what you roll. Now pair that with Quivering Palm and if you've a low roll you've an insta-kill, Legendary Saves asides.
Ranger Hunter 3: Hunter's Mark adds a d6 to your weapon attacks vs one target. Hex is better but I digress, that's not the main draw, just a tasty morsel. The Hunter Archtype is why you're here. More specifically Hunter's Prey. Colossus Slayer adds 1d8 to one of your attacks, Giant Killer can be a very useful out-of-turn Stunning Strike, and Horde Breaker means even more damage (and crowd control when combined with Stunning Strike).
Rogue 2: Sure if you're maxing both stats this costs you your free ABI, but it's worth it. At level 1 you get Expertise and Sneak Attack, which is nice. What you're here for though is Cunning Action, which is a Ki-free Unarmored Movement, sans-speed increase. Or maybe your more into using Empty Body to sneak around, in which case you're here for bonus action hiding. Either way it's good stuff.
Rogue 3+: Really this is if you want to play a Rogue that's fast, can stun with their hands and can teleport in shadows. Only recommended for Shadow Monks. You pick up more Sneak Attack dice, Assassinate, Uncanny Dodge, and Reliable Talent. Not bad compared to what your path would get you. Remember: Sneak Attack only works on finesse weapons, which your Unarmed Strike isn't.
Post Al Service
Lucky Post
Post Already Eaten
Post Rotated Six
Post Twice 10/2
Post Snake Eyes
Aaand good to go.
Woah, great stuff! I like this guide sooooooooo much!!! 
What's your opinion on Elemental Monk ki usage? I've run the numbers, and a monk matches a fighter's damage if they use Flurry of Blows every turn, but that doesn't leave much ki left for Elemental monk abilities. So to me it seems like the choice you're left with is:
a.) Fighter-Tier damage
b.) Spells
c.) Everything else that uses ki
Pick one.
Compare that with an Eldritch Knight, who gets their spells ON TOP of fighter-tier damage all the time, and it seems like the elemental monk is kind of shafted. IMO the Open-Hand monk is the best because it doesn't have to spend any more ki to use its abilities. It can just spam flurry of blows every turn and knocks enemies across the room while ALSO dealing fighter-tier damage, rather than having to choose between melee damage and archetype features.
Strill wrote:
Yunru wrote:
Still have to do Elemonk, and flesh out everything from after Sub-classes, but bare bones is up.
Very nice start.
Stunning Strike is just so so dope. I think as time passes we'll come to understand that this ability, rather than Flurry of Blows, is the cornerstone of what a Monk does.
Rogue 2+ should be Rogue 3+, and at that point you're building a Rogue with a dip in Monk. Overall, I can't ever see a good reason for Monks to MC. There's nothing worth delaying your ki-point increases and damage die bumps.
Feats probably won't be a big deal for Monk builds other than variant Humans. Bumping Dexterity has the obvious advantages. By the time you max Dexterity, bumping Wisdom becomes a huge deal (+1 AC and Stunning Strike DC). There's not much out there that would justify delaying stat progression.
And of course, if Bracers of Defense +3 remain as written in the Dragon Queen adventure, they are start-a-quest-and-call-in-every-marker gold for Monks.
Rancid_Rogue wrote:
One level of Rogue doesn't get you Cunning Action, which is what you'd be dipping for in the first place.
As for feats: Mobile can be good, increasing your speed and effectively giving you Disengage as a free action.
Yunru wrote:
Sneak Attack at level 1 just isn't worth delaying your weapon damage and Ki Points for. See further in for why Rogue 2 is however.
Rancid_Rogue wrote:
And now just races and Ele-monks to go. Eurgh, ele-monks.
Yunru wrote:
You cast Darkness with your Ki points. You have Devil's Sight so that you can see through said Darkness (plain old Darkvision can't). As for how often will you be dash/disengaging: At first you'll be dashing to hit 'n' run and still be out of their move+attack range. At later levels you may wish to Disengage to freely move through their ranks to the back row.
Also your numbers are wrong: if you dash/disengage twice per short rest you break even. Sure you delay your Weapon Die upgrade, but you get +1d6 1/turn to compensate (which, averaging +3.5, is just plain better).
Yunru wrote:
Better than getting advantage on all your attacks and imposing disadvantage on all of theirs?
Both Cloak of Shadows and Empty Body breaks on attack, and that includes using your reaction to attack so you won't be invisible after.
I dipped Rogue ...
Danfmac wrote:
Rancid_Rogue wrote:
Some thoughts:
Mike Mearls once said in reference to the 3.5 monk class (and I am paraphrasing here) "not all classes are meant for every campaign, the monks abilities make it specialized for certain types of combat or challenges, but if your going to fight dragons of high level, then the holy four are the best option".
I would assume that what Mike Mearls said is really indicitive of a long lasting problem with the monk both thematically and mechanically within Dungeons and Dragons. The class just doesn't make alot of sense given the scope of threats that the average adventuring party faces throughout the course of a campaign, nor does it blend well with the commonly accepted "Western" Fantasy themes upon which the combat mathematics are based.
The 5th edition Monk looks much better in many ways, and would be an absolute blast to play in the right campaign, but due to the monk's many defeciencies that have been carried over from earlier editions I'm not sure that much can be done in terms of optimization for the class (other than the obvious, dex, then wis)
That said, I've been looking forward to a monk guide for sometime, mostly to see if anyone responded with anything creative for a monk build in the comments section because I was reasonably certain nothing illuminating would occur in terms of optimization in a monk guide with the class as it is.
Since no one seems to be posting anything yet, I have some interesting monk ideas:
A monk that takes magic initiate should not choose the druid spell list, or prioritize wisdom over dex at early levels, unless they are going to multiclass as a druid or cleric.
*shillelagh builds really are redundant and add so little to the monk class.
Magic Initiate on the average monk is going to be so much better served in offsetting the classe's deficiencies by taking cantrips and a spell from the cleric list. Sacred Flame is usable at a range of 60 feet, it is radiant damage (which is almost never resisted unlike bludgeoning), and it requires no attack roll (reflective carpace/attack roll mitigators etc...)
The next best cantrips are Guidance (It really does feel like cheese when you see it in action if you haven't at your table yet so think on it carefully. Although this edition has the clerics at my play table actually praying/supplicating to their god's more than any edition before it), or Light for any race without darkvision.
Spells from the level 1 cleric list to choose are: Bane, Command, Protection From Good and Evil, or Bless. I personally find Bane to be the best choice, but with a monks superior speed Command makes the class an amazing weapon thief (and of course groveling/cowtow/kneel is just a small kick away from prone if the enemy has no weapon to steal).
Elemental Monks aren't that bad if you take the right Elemental Disciplines. Take disciplines that actually support the parties deficiencies, for instance, "Rush of the Gale Spirits" is great. Gust of wind for 2 ki is a good choice (Yes its primary defensive function won't come up that often, but when it does, your about guaranteed that none of the spell casters have it. And it does have some minor combat utility).
An interesting feature of "Shape of the Flowing River" is that the change is permanent or until environmental conditions or outside influence reverse the change. Also at 1 ki point, you can create quite a large amount of changes in an area, though the "extent" feature of the discipline will need to be thought about before attempting anything.
Water Whip is bludgeoning damage, it is great nova as a bonus action, but it is a damage type the monk class already has easy access to. I say skip it, along with Fangs of the Fire Snake and Fist of Unbroken Air.
Sweeping Cinder Strike is another discipline that the monk may be bringing something unique to the group. Other than fire based dragon sorcerers, fiend pact warlocks (few spell slots to cast much more than hex), light clerics (will likely have spent slots on heals, faeire fire, or bless/bane), and some evokers (magic missle, mage armor, shield, or sleep, seem like most of the low level wizards spell slots), most low level parties will be using other methods to try and kill swarms (like the very loud and tactically inconvenient thunderwave). This discipline would also add aoe damage to a class that has 0 aoe features other than multi-attacking (fireball could always be chosen later, but I feel that many casters could be bringing that to the average group, and burning hands is useful at a range that the monk will naturally be at from the enemy, which is to say close).
It has been pointed out before but, "Clench of the North Wind" is fairly good at 3 ki points and while many other spell casters may have this, shutting down enemy humanoids is always great to have, and at six castable uses (lvl 20) per short rest...I'd say the monk can get more use out of it than any caster.
It should be noted that nothing about the elemental monk that i have listed above, even comes close to the goodness of an Open Palm monk with the ritual caster feat, the cantrips Guidance, and Sacred flame, and the spell Bane.
Wood elves should be considered sky -blue as a racial choice. They are currently black in the guide.
Kavrek wrote:
Kavrek wrote:
Level 6 at the earliest, Stunning Strike is just that good. Any time after that is up to personal preference. It also depends how much you'd be Dash/Disengage/Hide-ing, if it's twice or more per short rest, then MC Rogue is worth it, if you don't, then you're probably better off staying pure Monk.
Yunru wrote:
Not really, since Monks are so tight for space with regards to ABIs. That aside, there's not really any 1 or 2 level dips that benefit a Monk outside of niche cases. If you want to dip one level then maybe Fighter for one of the Fighting Styles, or Druid/Nature Cleric for Shillelagh. But really a Monk on has room for maxing stats and a feat or a MC dip. Unless you're a variant human of course, in which case it's a feat and another feat or a MC dip.
Elemental Monk - Water Whip is reasonably powerful. The ability to damage/prone or damage/pull as a bonus action and then use your primary attack has a lot of a possible options. Prone someone then move up to them and attack with Advantage. Or yank a flying target out of the sky or overcome being unable to move for whatever reason.
Also, Burning Hands/Thunderwave/Fireball all have their uses - there are times where it is better to do a lot of distributed damage so your casters can finish them off.
Mommy_was_an_Orc wrote:
Yunru wrote:
Yunru wrote:
Yunru wrote:
Yunru wrote:
Jay_Ibero_911 wrote:
Strill wrote:
Mommy_was_an_Orc wrote:
1eejit wrote:
Yeah they didn't spell it out very clearly.
I'm glad the Op is done, hope it went well.
1eejit wrote:
Mommy_was_an_Orc wrote:
Squad wrote:
GladiusLegis wrote:
Defensive dualist is pretty nice and should probably be added to the list.
mellored wrote:
1eejit wrote:
1eejit wrote:
Mommy_was_an_Orc wrote:
Hell an Open Hand monk doesn't even hqve to be built for grappling and it can be good at action denail that way: Hit and Stun, Grab, Flurry and Prone and hey, you can still Flurry and Prone a second target.
Yunru wrote:
Using stun to setup a nova seems pretty easy. Stun + water whip, and your allies can follow with Disintigrate.
Open hand can simply stun + prone while still punching.
Or heck, just use it to get advatage on 3 more attacks.
The fact that it only cost 1 ki makes it superb at high levels.
Yunru wrote:
Yunru wrote:
Yunru wrote:
Strill wrote:
How about multiclassing with Cleric or (Land) Druid?
It could work as a minor Monk dip (1-5 levels), a roughly even split, or minor caster dip (~4 levels) depending on whether you want your focus to be more towards melee or casting. You spell DC works fine.
Notable spells:
- damage with a dex save (stunning strike causes auto-fail) like Fireball, Lightning Bolt, Flame Sphere, Flame Strike. Some of those will only be available for specific Domains or Lands.
- Also the hold person spell is amazing for allowing one or more nova round similar to Assassinate. War Clerics can even get hold monster at 9.
- survivability/mobility spells - mirror image, blur, freedom of movement, blink, haste, misty step, shield of faith and so on.
- Melee damage buffs. Especially War Cleric here - divine favour, magic weapon, crusader's mantle are handy with the number of attacks a monk gets.
Any of the monk subclasses will work for an even split or minor caster dip depending on the concept you're going for. There's a lot of possible builds.
For a 5-level monk dip you'd probably take Open Hand unless you want the useful Shadows spells - most druids don't get silence, most clerics don't get pass without trace.
Squad wrote:
Rancid_Rogue wrote:
mellored wrote:
Rancid_Rogue wrote:
Yunru wrote:
Yunru wrote:
IMO, monks shouldn't multiclass very much.
More ki = more stuns. Which works much better then a few extra damage at higher levels.
mellored wrote:
Im currently playing a Monk/Barbarian! using the Rage ability with half dmg on non-magical slashing, piercing, and bludgeoning attacks in conjunction with Martial Arts really makes a great combo....Mountain Dwarf named Ulfgar Stonefist, he uses a Quarterstaff as his main weapon and then of course Unarmed strike with 2nd attack. he is now 2nd Level Monk/1st Level Barbarian so he gets the 2 ki pts to make one additional Unarmed strike using the Flurry of Blows.....
justiceleaguenow wrote:
Yeah pretty good Stats! we used the point system but with a twist. Our DM let us spend 10 pts (instead of 9) for a 15 score but we got to roll 1d3 and add that to the ability score. so with that in mind Ulfgar has Str:10 Dex: 18 Con: 16 Wis: 17 Int: 8 Cha: 8 A.c. 17 HP: 29 +6 to hit with QS d6+4 dmg, Unarmed Strike +6 Att with d4+4 dmg
justiceleaguenow wrote:
Siderealmotion wrote:
1eejit wrote:
Please check if I did this right:
"Radar O'Reilly"
L1 Monk intended to serve as the party Enemy Detecter, plus carry his share (but not be King) of DPR.
STR 12
DEX 15 + 2 = 17
CON 13
INT 8
WIS 15 + 1 = 16
CHR 8
Wood Elf (or variant human with Resilient(WIS) if the math for Perception checks works out enough better to be worth carrying a night light)
9 HP
no armor; AC 16
modified Outcast background: changed skills
skills: Acrobatics, Athletics, Insight, Perception, Stealth
shortsword d20 + 5 to-hit; 1d6 + 3 dmg
unarmed d20 + 5 to-hit; 1d4 + 3 dmg
dart d20 + 5 o-hit; 1d4 + 3 dmg; range 20/60
Based on experience at the table, either max DEX fast or take Resilient(WIS) soonest. Alert and Mobile both struck me as being worth a feat slot eventually.
Can go Shadows or Open Hand, depending if the party has another competent sneaker.
1eejit wrote:
justiceleaguenow wrote:
-ktkenshinx- wrote:
Mommy_was_an_Orc wrote:
Rancid_Rogue wrote:
Wyznmurl wrote:
Yunru wrote:
It's got other out-of-combat uses.
Like hexing an opponent's Cha in a debate.
mellored wrote:
Rancid_Rogue wrote:
What about rogue3/assassin. With Alert this could be nice...
Long time lurker. Love the guide. Thanks for writing it.
I'd really like to see the traditions fleshed out in this guide. I assume that they are coming. In the meantime, I have questions about Way of the Shadow with the Warlock dip:
- How useful is "Devil's Sight" really? I'm interested to see how often you're actually spending Ki on Darkness.
- Is Eldritch Blast, for this character, more effective than a short bow? (sorry, thats kind of a loaded question, lots of variables)
- Hex looks great, but concentration sounds like an issue for a melee character not proficient in Con saves. In practice, is it a big issue?
- What about Hellish Rebuke? Nice way to get some damage out of your reaction. Looks okay for this character but the DC would be low.
- How much do you put in CHA? Requsite 13? More?
- How early did you/would you take the Warlock levels?
DSZ wrote:
Thanks for the guide Yunru! It's looking great so far.
Rancid_Rogue wrote:
DSZ wrote:
Rancid_Rogue wrote:
Yunru wrote:
DSZ wrote:
I'm really liking the look of Trickery Cleric/Shadows Monk multiclass, should be a lot of fun. Maybe 6/14 or 9/11.
Not ineffective either, Invoke Duplicity can pretty much be perma-advantage for your many melee attacks and you get some great spells to choose from like hold person, bestow curse, healing, mirror image and so on.
Other nice domains to mc a monk with a small dip would be Light or Tempest - nice lvl 1 features scaling from Wis mod. Life and Knowledge can be cool concepts for mc too.
Rancid_Rogue wrote:
Munchkin fact of the day: Depending on whether you read OR to be inclusive or exclusive, all the Monk "Unarmored" features except Unarmored Defense work with a Shield AND armor.
Note: My personal view is that it is the generic OR not an exclusive OR, and thus wearing a shield and armor doesn't get around "you are not wearing armor or wielding a shield".
EDIT: I guess there still could be two readings: "you are not (wearing armor or wielding a shield)" vs "you are ((not wearing armor) or (wielding a shield))". The latter of which means wielding a shield gets you Unarmored Movement, but not Martial Arts.
OP: How would you 27 point buy a Monk 6/Warlock 2? What race/subrace would you use?
Wyznmurl wrote:
That and Shillelegah obtained that way uses Cha not Wis. Monk's are MAD, you're going to have a hard time MCing in general, let alone if you want to add another Primary stat into it. Otherwise, what he said ^.
Yunru wrote:
And thus it uses the Warlock's Spellcasting Stat. Which is Charisma.
Yunru wrote:
Yunru wrote:
Since Stunned opponents don't get to save vs. Dex, it seems like the (Ki burning) killer combo for Open Hand is Stunning Strike, then Flurry, then on the next round Flurry again and end it with a Open Hand Technique to knock them Prone, then Flurry again next round (and may as well try to knock them prone again). Assuming the first Stunning Strike succeeds, all those attacks will be made with Advantage.
Do I have that right?
Yunru wrote:
Yunru wrote:
Yunru wrote:
I edited the last post: forgot to add that in Round 3 you still have advantage (in addition to their disadvantage) because they are prone. So do all your friends.
Elfcrusher wrote:
Oh, yeah, I guess there should be a 2A and 2B: but if they choose to stand up they lose their attack, correct? Seems like that's also a decent outcome for what amounts to a free ability.
Elfcrusher wrote:
mellored wrote:
mellored wrote:
Hey, check out the the homebrew monk subclass of mine. It still work in progress, and I would love any advice you can give, and things you think soul knifes shoul be able to do.
I'm new to D&D in general so my grasp on opimization is probably lacking, so forgive me.
I would like to bring up a discussion on the feasability to multiclass 2 into druid (circle of the moon) for Wild shape, and access to the guidance/resistance cantrips. My understanding of wild shape is the attacks you'd do while transformed would count as Unarmed Strikes, which would trigger your martial arts allowing your bonus attack.
Would doing this be feasable, or would the 1 max challege rating of your wild shape be too limited?
Ashur420 wrote:
mellored wrote:
Mommy_was_an_Orc wrote:
Mommy_was_an_Orc wrote:
Optimization be damned. Kung-fu bear actually sounds really entertaining.
mellored wrote:
Mommy_was_an_Orc wrote:
TheLastDunedain wrote:
hi all, I'm looking for some advice because I wanna make a monk and I can't choose between forest elf or variant human.
It will be a open hand monk and i will max dex and then wis asap and i'll try to focus on improving armor class and saving throws (does ring of protection and bracers of defense stack?).
My consideration: stats wise forest elf will have 14 con while human 12 (8 cha for elf, 9 for human), rest are the same.
elf will have +5 foot movement, darkvision, improved stealt and proficiency with longbow (that will be good untill i can use d8 for sling lvl 11, even if bow has longer range)
For human i was thinking about defensive duelist (as i said before i like to have high AC) or mobile.
I think that elf bonus will be lowered with level progress (monk improved movement and other way to get darkvision) but dunno if defensive duelist or mobile will be better than +1 con saves and +1pf*lvl, also dd will eat my reaction so no deflect missile, while with my ac and being open hand monk ppl will be prone and have disadvantage to hit me if i leave (or they are stunned).
p.s. i don't think sentinel is a good feat for a monk cause i have stun (iireadc i can use it during an opportunity attack) and most of the time i'll be the one they want to hit
Sastralle wrote:
Yunru wrote:
What does Cleric, Ranger or Druid get you in exchange for delaying your ABIs, your Ki and your Monk abilities?
Yunru wrote:
1eejit wrote:
I was thinking about multiclassing for a really fun Shadow monk. What are your thoughts on this build?
Wood Elf
Starting Stats (Point Buy + racials):
Str: 10, Dex 17, Con 11, Int 8, Wis 16, Cha 12
1: Monk 1 - Unarmored Defense, Martial Arts
2: Monk 2 - Ki, Unarmored Move (+10 feet)
3: Rogue 1 - Expertise, Sneak Attack, Thieves Cant
4: Rogue 2 - Cunning Action
5: Monk 3 (shadow) - Deflect Missiles. Shadow Arts (Minor Illusion cantrip, Darkness, Pass without Trace, Silence)
6: Monk 4 - Slow Fall, Dex +1 (to 18), Cha +1 (to 13)
7: Rogue 3 (assassin) - Disguise/Poisoner kit proficiency, Assassinate, Sneak attack +1d6 (to 2d6)
8: Monk 5 - Extra attack, Stunning Strike
9: Warlock 1 - Fiend Patron, Pact Magic, 2 cantrips, 2 spells known, 1 spell slot (1st lvl), Dark One's Blessing
10: Warlock 2 - Eldritch Invocations (2 - Devil's Sight & Fiendish Vigor), 3 spells known, 2 spell slots (1st lvl)
11: Rogue 4 - Dex +2 (to 20)
12: Monk 6: Ki-Empowered Strikes, Shadow Step
13: Monk 7: Evasion, Stillness of Mind
14: Monk 8: Wis +2 (to 18)
15: Monk 9: Unarmored Movement improvement
16: Monk 10: Purity of Body
17: Monk 11: Cloak of Shadows
18: Monk 12 - Wis + 2 (to 20)
19: Monk 13 - Tongue of the Sun and Moon
20: Monk 14 - Diamond Soul
Yunru wrote:
CariadocThorne wrote:
ppaladin123 wrote:
Did a bit of updating. Finished rating races, added Alert as a feat and Divination Wizard as a MC. Also added Warlock 7 as a possible MC, would like to here thoughts on that one.
I would add defenisve dualist to the feat list. Unless your a shadow monk, you don't really have any competing reactions.
Yunru wrote:
I think your overstating diviniation.
It's not like you get 2/day garenteed quivering palms. It's 2 dice per day. You could roll a 18 and 19, and you'd get no quivering palm advantage.
Of course, those can still be pretty nice to use to avoid a nasty saving throw, but it's not forcing a quivering palms failure.
And unless you know the monster's numbers, rolling a 9 and 10 could be just as much of a gamble as rolling a die.
That said, wizard get's plenty of nice low level utility spells. Like shield.
gerdalti wrote:
Yunru wrote:
I would rate Mobile feat higher. Imagine this: move toward an opponent, make an attack to him, move to an another opponent, make an extra attack, take bonus action Flurry of Blows, move to third opponent, make an unarmed attack, move to fourth oppponent and make last unarmed attack. If you left with some movement you could run away. No opportunity attacks at all. Moreover each attack can be Stunning Strike so you could potentialy stun four targets in one turn. At 2nd level you will have +20ft. movement (if variant human) and at 18th level that would be +40ft.
515k4 wrote:
mellored wrote:
515k4 wrote:
515k4 wrote:
Thank you Yunru, for the good guide! Especially since the monk is so MAD XD
also, hope you will at some point properly cover the elemonk, it does seem cool to play a bit of avatar/naruto XD
Regardless of your feelings about the Way of the Four Elements monk you are going to at least include them in your guide, aren't you? Right now the subclass is not to be found.
J
I did a mini-guide to the ele-monk. Please mr Yunru, can I get a link in the subclass section of your guide?
http://community.wizards.com/forum/player-help/threads/4183601
Like the guide a lot. Only thing I wish it had was a background and skills section.
Edit: Also it would be really helpful if each class feature said what level it's achieved, but that would just be a small convience, not a big deal.
A nice guide!
I think you are understimating the halfling trait 'Lucky' though, as mathmatically you will be rolling more ones than any other class just as a result of the quantity of your attacks.
Ritual Caster (Cleric) gives you access to silence, plus a lot of utility if for some reason another class isn't covering it. Having a meditation / prayer book is fitting as well. Alternatively Ritual Caster (Wizard) is really nice.
I would love to see some builds.
roll4init wrote:
mellored wrote:
mellored wrote:
roll4init wrote:
FrogReaver wrote:
I think patient defense may be underrated. It's a huge defensive buff. Stops almost all criticals against you and can halve the number of successful attacks you take (assuming enemies hit 50% of the time).
It's not an ability to think about using all the time, but for what it does at 1ki point it's definetely situationaly useful.
roll4init wrote:
FrogReaver wrote:
I'd like to recommend the Defensive Duelist feat. I've been playing a monk in the AL with this, and it's been very effective.
Monks have countermeasures against ranged attacks (deflect missiles at level 3) and most spells (Prof bonus to saves at level 14), so a countermeasure specfically against melee attacks fills a gap for them. Also monks tend to spend a lot of time in melee, so the opportunity to use this feat comes up frequently.
It becomes more powerful at higher levels as your proficiency bonus increases. By the time you get to level 9 and it's a +4 to AC, that's making an attack miss 20% of the time.
frupton wrote:
Gonna give some love to the 4 elements monk, see what you think. Overall I think it's black compared to the other two options, but it does add a few tricks (namely the ability to fly.)
Way of the Four Elements
Where Way of the Open Hand improves the monk's already superior single target capacity, way of the Open Monk adds AoE options, as well as a few defensive and battlefield control abilities. Its most glaring weakness at first glance is the suddenly enormous use of your Ki points without increasing your pool in any way, but it does add a few unique abilities you couldn't otherwise get without pretty deep multiclassing (and the MADness that goes along with that.)
When you get this tradition you pick one elemental discipline, and you're forced to take the :"utility" cantrip-like power Elemental Attunement. There's nothing that says you can't trade this out at Level 6, so I consider Level 6 the point where you get 3 powers, and you get 5 total over the course of your career.
Elemental Disciplines
Elemental Attunement - Let's get this one out of the way first since you have to have it. It's pretty much useless. Trade it out as soon as you hit level 6.
Level 3 Abilities:
Fangs of the Fire Snake- Add reach to your unarmed strikes, but more importantly add 1d10 damage extra at the cost of 1 Ki. Not as good as the Paladin's divine strike ability, but adding extra damage after a hit is just guaranteed extra damage. If all four of your flurry of blows hits, you can spend a total of 6 Ki to add 4d10 damage total, giving this some nova potential but at a hefty price tag, especially when you can cast an 8d6 fireball for 4 ki points after level 11. It's rather ambiguous whether using Ki to add fire damage counts as seperate castings of this spell or not (thus not counting toward the Ki Point limit) but I don't think it's that good even before level 11. The reach might be useful from time to time, but Water Whip pretty much covers that anyway.
Fist of the Four Thunders - AOE knockback attack that does a fair bit of damage. Super noisy, which limits its application, but maybe you need to knock a group 10' toward a cliff or something..Not your best knockback spell and not your best AOE damage spell at this level.
Fist of Unbroken Air - Would be much better if it didn't take up your entire action to use (Like, if you did it as part of an attack or something.) Still, not terrible. Kncoking a typical medium creature prone after pushing them 20 feet means that after they get up they can't catch up to you. Shame you WANT to be close to most things. One plus here though is it apparently works on creatures of any size, and if you hit a flying clreature with it you can knock them out of the air (as causing a flying creature to go prone makes them straight up fall.)
Rush of the Gale Spirits - Nice duration and adds a decent amount of crowd control. Being able to pick the direction makes it a great "tank" ability as you interpose yourself on the front line since it essentially makes it difficult terrain to move toward you (before they can move past you.) Actually better overall for a monk than the casters that usually get this due to this melee positioning.
Shape the Flowing River - Cool effect, but situational and not particularly useful.
Sweeping Cinder Strike - Your best AOE spell until you hit level 11. Deals around 10.5 damage with the base Ki cost.
Water Whip - Bonus action. Deals damage (3d10 = average 16.5 damage) and pulls the target toward you 25 feet. Effectively adds 25 movement to your monk if the target fails their Dex save, and if they're close enough you can even pull fliers right out of the sky. For knocking enemies prone it's definitely not as good as Open Hand Technique but the extra utility helps make up for that.
Level 6 Abilities:
Clench of the North Wind - Better than stunning fist for the duration, and targets Wisdom instead of Constitution thus expanding your options. Also, while Paaralyzed is like Stun, it's better because it grants auto-crits to attackers. As icing to the cake, more Ki points means more people. Would be sky blue if it weren't for the fact it was ONLY hold person and not hold monster (plus every caster and their dog gets this spell.)
Gong of the Summit- Unless you're going to use this to break objects, Thunderwave is just much better than Shatter. For the same Ki cost you deal the same damage with Thunderwave with the added pushback utility. This seems overall kind of useless.
Level 11 Abilities:
Eternal Mountain Defense - Stone skin with no material cost, and lasts an hour. Lets you pick up on a piece of what Barbarians enjoy while raging with a better duration, but that Ki cost is going to restrict your other abilities. Slightly outclassed (or at least redundant) once you get Empty Body, so I'd trade it out at level 17 if you do take this.
Flames of the Phoenix: 14-28 average damage (save or no save) to a 20' radius. Great for cleraing out those ankle biters, even if you get it 6 levels later than your caster buddies.
Mist Stance - A nice utility power giving you the ability to fly as well as fit into places you otherwise couldn't. FIts really well for a stealthy monk trying not to make a raucous getting into things.
Fly - Or you could just fly. With little else to use your concentration on as a Monk, this is a fantastic way to close that gap between those flying buggers, and to get some distance in to use Water Whip or Fist of the Unbroken Air to knock those fliers out of the sky. Thank goodness that slow fall is a feature for monks too, in case you do lose your concentration.
Level 17 Abilities:
Breath of Winter - Marginally better than your fireball option with the same Ki cost, but a much bigger area of effect. It's a bit late in the game for dealing an average of 36 damage, but it will be useful for low level mooks just like FIreball.
River of the Hungry Flame - This isn't terrible... at level 7 when most casters get it. 10 levels later it's just not a hard enough battlefield control to make most creatures care. But, if you've got a lot of low level mobs filing in to the room it could keep them at bay.
Wave of the Rolling Earth - Hard CC, a little late in the game, but generally useful.
I may be missing something incredibly obvious here. Everyone keeps saying how great guidance is for a monk. How is this better for a monk than for the other classes?
KaptainKrunch wrote:
M_Aurelius wrote:
M_Aurelius wrote:
Jamwes wrote:
mellored wrote:
Mommy_was_an_Orc wrote:
mellored wrote:
Now having two monks in my party, I'm realizing some sad things that we've been playing wrong.
1) Though the monk has a lot of different options for multiple attacks, they nearly all require a bonus action, and thus, limit these options to one per turn.
For example, a monk may not dual wield and take their martial ATK as both this and the off-hand weapon each require a bonus action, meaning the monk gets only two ATKs per round, requiring that one of those is a martial ATK. Until lvl 5, this ATK does 1D4+(DEX modifier). Any character may do this by wielding an off-hand weapon. Let's imagine that the lvl 4 monk has DEX 15, and ATKs with a short sword and their unarmed Bonus ATK. The second ATK does 3-6 DMG, while if they ATKed with a second short sword it does 1-6 DMG. Is this really a big enough difference to overcome the mediocre limit on AC? The mediocre HP? The requirement for high DEX and WIS that cuts down on possible builds? The limit on weapons and thus DMG? Especially in close range fighters. (I realize the option of playing a run up, hit, and runaway style is appealing, but you only get one attack to run up and hit as you need a bonus action and a ki point to Disengage).
2) The flurry of blows also spends a bonus action. This means that two added unarmed ATKs replace the additional unnarmed ATK from your martial arts ability. This only adds 1 extra ATK to the mix (3 ATKs hardly seem like a flurry (esspecially if you're lvl 4 or below). And this privilidge can only be done 3x per rest, max. "Three prawns is hardly a galaxy." heh? heh?
3) One character was looking in to the Polearm Master feat. As this would be thematically great for a monk's quarterstaff. But alas, this feat only grants a small benefit as it requires a bonus action to use the blunt end of the weapon for a 1D4 hit.
Literally, in the party is a Warlock who, at lvl 4, has an imp. This pet, is a far better creature than a lvl 4 monk. (It can move further, be invisible, do more DMG, change shape). Unless I'm missing something, the Monk is written up to be the worst class. I would love to see something that fixes this gap. It would be great to call some of these ATKing options an "extra attack" rather than a bonus action. For the campaign I'm running, the monks are really fun additions and played very well, but I think I will make a house rule that the off-hand ATK is an extra ATK and that the Polearm Master will also reflect this. This, in my view, isa way to balance out the Monk. I haven't yet thought about all the horrific effects with other classes in doing this.
Another solution is to add some language similar to the Ranger's Horde Breaker.
I don't know, am I way off here?
Effectivly, monks get TWF style. And yes, 1d4+dex > 1d6 without dex.
At level 2, they get mini-action surges. Either +1 attack (2 attacks - 1 lost = +1 attack), dodge, dash, or disengage. This scales in quanity rather then quality.
They do need their stat boosts (+Dex, and +Wis.), but they get plenty of features that are basicly feats. You just don't get to pick them.
i.e.
Defelct arrow = defensive dualist
Unarmored movement = mobility.
wholeness of body = toughness.
tounges of the moon and stars = linguist
diamond soul = resilence+ resilience + resilience, with possible advantage.
Overall they are a slightly weak untill level 5. Extra attack, Stunning strike, and d6 weapons catches them up.
Leafless wrote:
I totally agree with these assessments. And it's great that they get better at level 5. I wonder if it's still on pace with all the other classes at that level. The rest get 3rd lvl spells and fighters (who outclass in most respects) get the extra attack as well. And for those of us that like to start campaigns at 1st lvl it's a hard to motivate players to play these and wait to almost catch up to the other classes.
I also allow basically as many short rests as the players want to take. I'm fairly easy going on this point. (two a day seems about right, at least).
So I think I've decided to allow the Bonus ATK granted by Martial Arts to be an Extra ATK instead. This seems to allow the Monk the ability to use several of their other options and equal out their worth. Though, perhaps, there are other ways to play these characters that we're not thinking of that keeps them a little more in running.
Thanks for the feedback.
Yunru wrote:
Updated races. Also ammended note on Elemonks due to Eratta making them go from a rock-bottom choice to a "whoops I've fallen out of the map" choice.
Yunru wrote:
Leafless wrote:
Let's look at lvl 5
Assumptions
Assume 6 combats per day.
Assume each combat lasts 4 rounds.
Assume 2 short rests.
Assume 50% accuracy
BattleMaster Fighter Level 5
The fighter will make 48 attacks during the day.
He will do an average of 12.33 damage per attack using a greatsword.
He will do 12d8 in the day through manuevers.
He will get 3 attacks from action surge.
295.92 + 54 + 17 = 366.92
*This is without precision attack. More damage could likely be obtained through precision attack.
Monk Level 5
Monk can use a quarterstaff veratile for 1d8 damage (8.5 avg).
Monk gets unarmed strikes of (7.5 avg)
Monk makes 2 unarmed strikes 15 times per day.
Monk makes 1 unarmed strike 9 times per day.
He attacks with the quarterstaff 48 times per day.
204 + 33.75 + 112.5 + 350.25
Conclusion:
Fighter does a little more damage than the monk. (4.76% more damage)
Monk has better utility abilities at this level. Primarily from the ability to stun.
Monk has better mobility.
Fighter isn't as squishy.
I'd say players biggest worries with starting as a monk is survivability in levels 1 and 2. I don't think they are as worried about not keeping up in damage because they do pretty well at that. Level 3 survivabilty becomes a little better with deflect missles. Level 5 it becomes much better with stunning strike.
Personally the way I would mitigate the early game weakness is to take variant human and the healer feat. And take shadow path at level 3 so I can cast darkvision on myself when needed.
The low Ki pool usually turns people off to the class. And unless you pick a race with dex and/or wis bonuses, your AC at low lvls isn't going to be higher than what, a 14 using a point buy system? Is that right? At most a +2 from dex and +2 from wisdom?
On paper, they look weak, at low levels, but boy do they shine later on. Personally, I'd give them more Ki though. Or remove the Ki cost from more of their abilities so Ki isn't used as much.
Bloodscythe wrote:
Or start with more initial ki points at Lv. 2, but make the ki gain slower when you level up.
Honestly if I wanted to make the monk more attractive early I'd simply fix the AC for them while in melee early.
GladiusLegis wrote:
FrogReaver wrote:
I'd be really careful about upping a Monk's ki points as Stunning Strike is very powerful. What I'd do instead is make a mechanic intended to compensate for 0-1 short rests, but not 2. Here's what I'd do:
After the 2nd combat after a short rest, and every combat thereafter, you regain a number of ki points equal to 1/4th of your level, rounding up. So as an example, a 4th level Monk fights 6 combats in a day.
2 short rests evenly spaced - gains no additional ki points and therefore has 12 ki points.
1 short rest in the middle - gain +2 ki points to the 8 for a total of 10 ki points.
0 short rests - gain +5 ki points to the 4 for a total of 9 ki points.
Love this guide! Was wondering about the viability of Defensive Duelist right out of the gates for variant human.
I'm thinking about 15+1 dex, 15+1 wis, 12 con, 10 str, 10 cha, 9 int. That'll put unarmored AC at 16, and when you get tagged, it bumps to 18 at lvl 1. Something about scaling AC screams "must take".
Could be useful, but then again, there are lots of other sexy feats to get out of the way before you go full into Dex or Wis.
Here I am building a shadow monk here is my build:
Race: Half elf: +1dex, +1wis, +2 cha. this allow me to have good stat and still satisfy the warlock cha13 prerequisite.
Stat:
Strenght: 8
Dex: 15 (+1racial, +2 ABI, +2ABI)
Con 12
Int: 10 (need this for investigate, since I fullfillthe rogue pot in the group)
Wis: 15 (+1racial)
Cha: 11 (+2cha)
Rogue1: I take rogue first to get an extra skill proficiency compare to taking my rogue level later. Yes my extra attack will be delayed to level 6 instead of 5, but that is 1 level su-optimal, compare to every level pass 5 where I could had 1 more skill proficiency. Plus expertise in stealth and perception will be very handy later in the game.
Monk 1-2-3-4-5-6-7: I go all the way to get evaion, becausse my DM love to fireball the group. If your DM do not use AoE pell often, then monk 6 sould be enought for the moment.
GOO warlock 1-2: to go get devil sight, Hex twice per day (I know Hex and Darkness both use my concentration slot, this is why I will use one or the other depending on the combat (or ask someone else to cast darkness) I take the Great Old one, so I can hide and still communicate with my team without blowing up my cover
Monk8: for dex 20
Rogue 2-3: uncany action and assassinate. I cannot wait to hide in the shadow, no one able to see me and my +15 stealth check, unless facing Tiamat herself with her passive perception 26, premtively casting He on the target (does the target become award he got Hex? what i I hex his wisdom to dull his wisdom check to notice that somethign is wrong?) then dealing 4 attack dealing 1d6+5 each (4d6)+2d6(sneak)+4d6(hex)+20, since I'm an assassin, those are done with advantage, and are automatic crit for a total of 20d6+20. this is without any kind of magical item. With a cloak of elven kind, even Tiamat could hope to see me. with a spider staff that would be an extra 2d6 (extra 4d6 with crit) poison damage, with a dagger of venom that could be an extra 2d10 (4d10) and a chance to poisoned the target etc....
Monk 9-10-11-12-13-14: proficiency on all save? yes thank you, also at leevl 9 you can run on water and on walls, level 10 give you immunity to poison and diseases, leve 11 give you d8 damage and invisibility in darkness (yeah since level 6 I never go out in the light, and season 3 is in the underdark, oh happy day^^. Level 12 Lucky, I knwo I don't have 20 wisdom yet, but lucky will allow me to force the opponent to reroll if I don't like what he rolled when he attack me or defend against my stunning attack compare to a constant+1. In addition I can reroll my own attack roll, my own stealth check, the opponent perception etc... Level 13 prtty useless ability, but it's a prerequisite to reach level 14 goodness.
For my level 20, not sure yet what to go for: rogue wold give me an extra feat or warlock for access to spell level 2 and to pact of the tome (access to guidance, resistance, and rituals). I really donT' like the level 15 monk, since the ability is pretty useless (don't age, but I never been in a campaign where my character was aging in a significant way. Once WotC release Epic progression, and aging might become a problem, then level 15 might become an option.
If I feel that I really want my ABI, I could take only 12 monk level and 4 rogue and 4 warlock, but then I would loose diamond soul which I believe is worth more then 2 feat (proficiency with all save (resilience offer only 1 additional profiency) and reroll failed save (lucky is more powerfull, but still)
Skill choice:
4 from rogue, +2 from half elf, +2 from background:
Acrobatic, athletic, Deception, Investigation, perception, sleight of hand, stealth, survival
Tool: theive tool (rogue), cook tool (monk), +3 language from background and half elf
why cook tools? so I can hide poison in food and conceal the taste so it's undetectable by my intented target. But you can take any artisan or instrument won't change much)
For everyone talking about Defensive Duelist being good for monks, I disagree. Defensive Duelist only works with a finesse weapon, which by RAW does not include unarmed strikes. Martial Arts does NOT make monk weapons Finesse weapons, it simply allows monks to use their Dex in place of Str when wielding simple non-heavy one handed/versatile weapons. Now if your DM will house rule that unarmed strikes are finesse weapons or otherwise qualify for defensive duelist.....then by all means take the feat.
It is also worth nothing however, that Martial Arts allows a monk to use the damage value from the Monk Table to replace the damage value of any monk weapons they use. So after 11th level, when you can use a Dagger or Shortsword as a 1d8 piercing weapon (same as the versatile quarterstaff damage from the first 10 levels as a monk), then Defensive Duelist may once again become beneficial.
Gunndykol wrote:
you can simply hold a dagger off-hand for defensive dualist and punch with the other.
also, it's a pretty weak feat at level, needing +4 proficency to be good. but if you don't have anything else you want at level 1, then fine.
So... looking at making a monk for AL Season 3 which is coming up pretty soon.
1) Straight Shadow Monk
2) Shadow Monk + Warlock 2/3
3) Straight Open Hand Monk
4) OH Monk + ranger?/Rogue?
Few questions...
1) General feedback on the Shadow vs Open Hand choice...
2) If MCing... at what level do you grab the warlock/ranger/rogue/etc levels?
3) What makes a decent MC with OH Monk?
4) Should I skip the MC, and just stay with single class?
5) Thinking of Vuman with Mobile.... any better suggestions?
Thanks for any feedback or brainstorming you can provide....
Hey guys, question. I'm building a Shadow Monk with Rogue levels and I want to know how Stunning Strike interacts with Sneak Attack. If I stun the opponent with my first attack, does my extra attack grant sneak attack damage dice ( assuming I'm using a finesse weapon)?
Thanks for the help.
SinisterGrin wrote:
jaappleton wrote:
jaappleton wrote:
Yunru wrote:
SinisterGrin wrote:
TheBigHouse wrote:
Coredump00 wrote:
One of the Characters I'm playing right now is a Warlock/Monk. My end goal the build is Warlock 7, Monk 7, Rogue 3, Sorcerer 3.
Sounds like a bit of a munchkin build but I came to the levels to fit my concept of a Rogue that uses mystic attacks as his primary weapons and his short swords are his backups. But ultimately I play him as a Dark Pact Monk. I wish I could squeeze more Monk levels in but to fit the skills needed it's about as much as I could afford.
So I have built around Eldritch Blast, Assassinate and B line it for Monk 6 for shadow teleporting. Sorcerer offers me a bit more spell utility as well as quicken for EB. Assassin makes my openers hit hard, and then I'm very versatile for moving around, and fullfilling rogue skills.
So far I am enjoying the character very much. Robin Hood had a saying, well so do I.
"Kill the rich, free the poor!"
and
"It's not about what we can do for you, it's what you can do for us."
Edit: Wanted to mention I hate House Kundarak, I mean fantasy bankers and lawyers all in one house. The only good dwarf is a dead dwarf.
BRJN wrote:
Thanks for the guide. I just wanted to relate my monk 5e experiences with you. I currently have a 5th level woodelf outlander way of the shadow monk with a 20 DEX(lucky) and 14 WIS. He has an AC of 17, a +8 to hit and a +5 to damage, uses his quarterstaff 2 handed for 2 strikes at d8+5 and with FoB 2 strikes at d6+5 for a potential of 48 points damage in one turn. He is a cross between the Jackie Chan and Jet Li characters from Forbidden Kingdom. He is a great fighter who is disciplined to his arts, nature, and his god. Beyond that he is dirty, unkempt, has zero respect for propriety, privacy, personal space, and was, in fact, raised by wolves. He also loves his drink(read as fairie dust, magic mushrooms, or any other mind altering substance he can get his hands on) btw, he thoroughly believes celery has great power, so much so he would worship it as a deity had he not had one already. He carries an abundance of it that nobody else can find (party members have tried unsuccessfully to separate it from him) which he can produce seemingly out of nowhere and will use any opportunity to offer it up as a be-all end-all remedy for anything from a sneeze to warding off the gods themselves. I chose monk because I was getting tired of old hack-n-slash and wanted a better utility character that had more versatility in role-play, plus I still get to bust knee-caps. I am finding so far that my monk is turning out to be the party bad-ass, I am sure he will take more of a backseat later on and pick up more as a utility role-play character. For now he is easily outclassing a dragonborn cleric, a halfelf paladin, a tiefling warlock and a 100% random rolled halforc rogue who is hilarious (all lvl 5 as well). By utility I mean it falls into a goup that has a little less value in melee and more value in role-play like the bard and rogue. These characters carry the party through the cities and forests and dungeons between battles. They offer up the more intriguing dialogue and flesh out the areas between combat. The thief, scrounger, information gatherer, assassin, gambler, entertainer, etc. They excel at the small side missions or 1 or 2 man sorties that require stealth, agility, cunning, and finesse over brute strength and fighting or fireballs that make the sun squint. You WILL get bored with "me Brick-for-brains, me kill you" eventually. If you want blood, guts,and fire, dont pick a monk.
I find that shadow monks are equal to if not outstripping open hand monks. The only two abilities I had any- ANY- trouble leaving behind was the self heal and the quivering palm. Everything else was or will be easily made up for if not missed at all. That shadow step alone is, at least to me, mind blowing at its worst. That's just the beginning of the list. You are right. The ele-monk was a no-brainer, too little for too much that other classes could do better for cheaper. A bust if you ask me.
I really am having a lot of trouble deciding to dip into warlock mainly for the darkness-devil sight-shadow step-combo (though my CHA is a 10...or 8?). I don't mind the loss of ki so much as I really loathe delaying my ABI, even for a couple of levels. The rogue dip I'm not sure about, as it seams the sneak attack doesn't stack well with FoB and the speed boost I'm not so concerned about, the expertise is a plus along with the thieves tools, the cunning action, possibly.. I would love to dip both, but It gives me anxiety just thinking about the ABIs I'm delaying.I would appreciate any advice and/or encouragement on that point. Please keep in mind that I plan to keep unarmored defense the whole way through. That's probably the main reason I am hesitant to dip... the loss of ABI to my WIS and the dent it would put in my AC ( see what I did there?). Although it may be decided for me, as I am not sure my DM is allowing MCing. I will have to check, I vaguely remember him forbiding something, but not sure what.
Speaking of DMs, mine seems to be picking on my monk at the moment. I don't know if it's because of my playing style or the fact that my monk is Billy Jack-bad-ass (yes, I just date stamped myself) right now, or the other fact that I think he really wanted me to choose open hand instead of shadow. Tell me, do your bonus unarmed strike or FoB have to be on the same enemy as your last attack from the attack option, or can you spread each blow amongst any number (read up to 4) of enemies ( as I do not own a 5e PHB)? He seems to think that my bonus strike(not the 2 that are counted in the attack action for being 5th or higher), rather it be 1 unarmed or FoB, needs to be on the last one struck at from my attack action. He seems to ba a RAW DM, but not above some minor improv. Either way, I got to see him nearly chip a tooth last session when his jaw hit the table after I was thrown from the top of a 110 foot tree and reduced the 26 points of damage to 1 point with slow fall(hahahahahaha). It was very satisfying to play that ace I had been holding,even more so because apparently he had forgotten it by throwing me off in the first place. Then he did it again while I was grappled and grudgingly allowed me to reduce it to half damage only because the creature died while it had me grappled and just fell instead of performing a dive with intentions of divine wind(read kamikaze). Is that a RAW on slow fall being effected by grapple or is it a butt-hurt DM throwing a temper-tantrum? One more question, what should climbing be, an athletic check, an acrobatic check, player choice, or of course DM discression? Really, what would it be under RAW, if not a grey area?
Multiclassing into Warlock's mainly once you've got all the ASI/abilities you want, or if you don't mind delaying them. But with an 10/8 Cha you'd have to invest ASIs to do so, so I wouldn't.
Each attack can be against a different enemy: there's no restrictions listed, so they follow the normal rules of making attacks.
Slow Fall could go either way: it slows your movement, so RAW it should work, but it could be argued that unless you also affect the one grappling you they drag you down.
Climbing simply costs double movement, unless you're DM decides that it's risky enough to warrent Althletics checks.
Back to multiclassing: the only thing you want to be missing out your ASIs for really is Mobile or Rogue 2; unless you've someone shutting down enemy OAs, you don't want to be hit, and the best way to avoid that is to not be there.
jaappleton wrote:
I apologize to your eyes, just had a bit to say. Thanks for the answers and advice. Does anyone think it wise to dip 4 levels in rogue to avoid missing an ABI? As far as darkness negatiing aparatus, that sounds like a sell your soul, your left testacle, and your firstborn to purchase.
Rendal wrote:
I have been thinking, (I know, I know, that's dangerous), I plan on waiting until level 6 to do anything, and the first 2 levels in anything would only be a handful of encounters(if level progression works like that). I would only be losing perfect self and opportunist as far as monk abilities go...no great loss there. I would still lose that last ABI though. Well, I guess I'll just have to make a Buddha Birthay fund and buy an extra ring, or find a pretty little precious for our own birthday(gollum...gollum...ach...ach...goddamn **** hair, honey...time to shave!). I SAID STOP DICTATION!! DON'T TYPE THAT!! ahemm excuse me....
jaappleton wrote:
Coredump00 wrote:
This may be somewhere else in here already, but it just occurred to me that Shadow Monks would be great for knocking flying enemies out of the sky, if they come within 60' of the ground: BAMF! up, Stunning Strike, Slow Fall down.
So Aarakokra may make the best Monks, but Monks also make the best Aarakokra killers. (If I even spelled it right...)
Elfcrusher wrote:
Cunning Action let's you hide, disengage, or dash as a bonus action. Or no?
Miladoon wrote:
So does anyone have any thoughts on how exacly you'd handle MCing for a shadow monk? the guide advizes both 2 levels in rogue for cunning action, and two levels in warlock for Devil's Sight + Darkness, but as far as i can discern, Empty Body is too important to be dropping 4 levels of monk for both. How would you guys handle this?
Yunru wrote:
I have two possible PCs for PotA, and one is a wood elf starting as Rog 1 (expertise in Perception/Stealth), then (shadow) Mnk 6, then two more Rog levels to get (shadow) Mnk 6/(assassin) Rog 3. After that, play it by ear.
Use a shortsword to use Sneak Attack (and possibly Defensive Duelist).
Sorry about that last post. put the body of my post in the wrong spot.
Hey guys. I just thought of a feat. tell me if you think it's balanced.- Speed of Thought- choose one- +1 to your primary attribute, +1 to your secondary attribute, or +1 permanently to your AC. Speed of Thought allows you to choose each turn to take an extra bonus action or an extra reaction.
Here's another feat- Nimble Limbs- choose one- +1 one to primary or secondary attribute. Nimble Limbs allows one extra UNARMED attack during your attack action, may only be used in melee attacks, not ranged.
I know they might be a little more aimed at monks, but from what I have seen, there are no good feats for a monk to choose over straight stat boosts. Other classes could benefit quite well from these, especially those geared toward combat. Please let me know your opinions.
Now at ENWorld.
Thank you so much for these guides. I'm looking into building a monk, and previously made a rogue and I always go to your guides for generally thinking out my process. I originally went Wood elf because of the +2 dex and +1 wisdom and didn't realize I could stack states as a human until you said something. Solid work, much appreciated!
ArialBlack wrote: