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| #1MydKnyghtDec 10, 2014 18:00:43 | Disclaimer: I haven't done this before, so any comments will be great. I think the Monk is weak, and they had it right in the play test, so here is my subclass suggetion.
Way of the Pugilist. The Monk shuns magic augments and relies on his inner strength and knowledge to battle.
Starting at 3rd level when you shoose this tradition your damage die increases by 1 level. IE: D4=D6, D6=D8 etc. This applies to any unarmed attack.
Bob and Weave: At 6th level you feel the flow of unarmed combat so keenly you are now able to add your proficiency bonus to your AC. If you have any type of magic that boosts your AC in use it interferes with your senses and you are unable to make use of the proficiency bonus.
Pressure Point: At 11th level you can sense weak spots in your oponents body, and know the exact spot to strike for maximum effect. You now double your proficiency bonus when it relates to the DC for Stunning Strike, and you have advantage any stunning strike attack.
Dish it out: At 17th level you have more then mastered the art of unarmed combat, and you are able to feel exactly where you should hit your opponent to cause the most damage. You now add your proficiency bonus to all attack and damage rolls with unarmed attacks. Any magic weapon that is on your person will intefere with this sense. If hold a magic weapon for more then 1 minute, you loose this advantage. You sense the loss and must spend 5 ki to "cleanse" your body of the magical influence.
*You are not prohibited from using any other magical items, or MC into a magic class. Just from using magical armor, and weapons.
I know some of the bonuses seem high, I believe the non ability to use magical armor, or weapons balances it. After all you cant get a vorpal short sword, or some crazy build up of armor that other classes may attain.
Thank you
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| #2BRJNDec 10, 2014 18:30:09 | I like the idea.
Maybe add proficiency bonus (or prof/2) to Monk weapon to-hit rolls at low level. Or grant advantage on all unarmed attacks (which will soon mean "almost every attack made"). At mid-level, add proficiency bonus to Unarmed damage rolls. Don't add proficiency bonus to AC unless you have some evidence - complaint threads - that at high levels, the max Unarmored Defense AC is too low to survive melee combat. There should be some tie between the Monk's abilities and ki use, which you completely ignore in this draft. The abilities of this subclass do not stack with magic weapons; the language will probably be crisper than what you currently have. Of course in short order a Pugilist Monk won't want magic weapons anyways if his class abilities give better advantages.
I think there is a space for a pure-damage Subclass that parallels Way of the Hand. Your draft looks like a good step in that direction. |
| #3BloodscytheDec 10, 2014 18:45:20 |
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| (Reply to #3)MydKnyght |
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| #5BloodscytheDec 10, 2014 19:25:32 | I do like the direction you want to go though... especially if you envision the monk as someone who has taken a vow of poverty. Magical items typically are regarded as highly valuable or priceless so such a character would refuse possessing such an item.
I'll try to provide some other options instead of just critiquing yours:
Way of the Pugilist: Starting when you choose this tradition at 3rd level, you can manipulate your enemy's ki when you harness your own. You can use the bonus action granted by the martial arts ability to grapple or shove. You can use a dexterity (acrobatics) check in grappling and shoving contests.
6th: In addition to gaining Ki-Empowered Strikes at 6th lvl, you have mastered the ability to channel Ki into your unarmed strikes to enchance them further. You may spend up to 3 Ki points per turn. You enhance your attacks, turning your unarmed strikes into magical weapon attacks with a magical bonus equal to the Ki points spent, until the beginning of your next turn.
11th: The force of your unarmed strikes become so powerful that you can strike from a distance, projecting the force of your strike up to 30 ft away. If you spend 1 Ki, you can attack a target up to 30 ft away with an unarmed strike. If the target is 5 ft away and you hit with this strike, you push the target 10 ft.
17th: Your stunning strike becomes a paralyzing strike. Follow the standard rules for stunning strike, but on a success, the target is paralyzed until the beginning of your next turn.
Monks dependence on Ki is very limiting. Short rests are great, IF you get to take them. If the monk can never rest, they're severely limited. This holds true for all monks though, not just the one you're trying to design. |
| (Reply to #5)MydKnyght | Ok, I took both perspectives into consideration. I left out alot of ki dependency since way of hand and way of shadow have some that are not ki dependant. Here I have mixed the 2 and borrowed from the list. Bloodscythe I really like the 6th level ability, and the 17th level ability. I adjusted it slightly. For 3rd level, and 11th level I left Ki out of it, and Brjn's suggestions.
Lets review this one. I don't want it over powered, but monks need a bit of a boost.
Starting at 3rd level when you shoose this tradition your damage die increases by 1 level. IE: D4=D6, D6=D8 etc. This applies to any unarmed attack. All unarmed attacks have advantage.
Ki punch: At 6th level you have mastered the ability to channel Ki into your unarmed strikes to enhance them further. You may spend up to 3 Ki points per turn. You enhance your attacks, turning your unarmed strikes into magical weapon attacks with a magical bonus equal to the Ki points spent, until the beginning of your next turn.
Dish it out: At 11th level you have become attuned to the flow of battle, knowing instinctivly where to hit to cause the most damage on an opponent. You now add your proficiency bonus to unarmed damage rolls.
Pressure point: At 17th level you have mastered the knowledge of the nervous system. You have altered your stunning strike to paralize instead of stun. Follow the standard rules for stunning strike, but on a success, the target is paralyzed until the beginning of your next turn. You may also spend an additional 1Ki point to cause the defender to have disadvantage on their DC roll.
* I hope this isn't overpowered, but adds to the monk's effectivness. I like the use of Ki for adding att and damage, but I don't feel all of the benefits need to cost Ki to be a benefit.
Tell me if I am getting closer
Thank you |
| (Reply to #6)Bloodscythe |
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| #8CariadocThorneDec 11, 2014 5:25:50 | I'm not sure why you think the monk is underpowered. They already get a good AC, not quite as high as some other classes can get as dedicated tanks, but not far off. They also get to dodge as a bonus action, which is huge. They also already deal quite a bit of damage. Again it isn't quite as high as some dedicated dpr builds but still good (although quivering palm is insane). Then they add a mass of utility on top, like the ability to get proficiency an all saves, stunning blow, tons of movement related boosts, teleporting between patches of darkness, access to a few spells, evasion and so on.
If you want to boost the monks damage, take a few levels of ranger. A 3 level dip gives you a free extra attack against a second target, and +2 damage (designers have stated duellist works with unarmed strikes), access to useful spells like jump, longstrider and especially hunters mark, which can add +d6 damage on 4 of the 5 attacks per turn you will eventually dish out. A good monk build can match the damage and ac of most other classes. It'll have less damage than dedicated for builds, but probably slightly better defense, and will have less defense but better damage than most dedicated tanks, and it'll have better utility and movement than both. For a tanky build, add cleric of light, for shield of faith and additional turns of imposing disadvantage on attacks against you. Not to mention access to fireball. Or for damage go war cleric for big bonuses to hit and spells like divine favour (+d4 damage on your attacks) and magic weapon (+1/2/3 to hit and damage). Also remember you can choose to use a magic weapon like a dagger and still use your monk bonuses like unarmed damage dice instead of the weapons dice. Only the bonus action attacks have to be unarmed strikes. |
| (Reply to #8)Bloodscythe |
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| #10CariadocThorneDec 11, 2014 13:13:37 |
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| (Reply to #10)Bloodscythe |
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| (Reply to #11)CariadocThorne |
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| #131eejitDec 12, 2014 3:23:09 | If you're mostly just jealous of magical weapons how about something like:
Ki Harmonics: You have learned to attune the Ki in your body to the power running through magical weapons. Your unarmed attacks now provide any melee-range bonuses or abilities provided by a single magical weapon you are attuned to. |
| (Reply to #12)Bloodscythe |
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| #15BloodscytheDec 12, 2014 4:49:34 | Mydknyght: You won't want to replace stunning strike with paralyzing strike. You'll want to add extra functionality to stunning strike, just in case you're facing an opponent that can't be paralyzed. You'd want the monk to still be able to stun. Either allow stunning strike to stun and paralyze, or allow the monk to choose one of the two. |
| #16Danny_MontannyDec 12, 2014 6:40:08 | Using some of the ideas already presented, this is how I would do a boxer.
Fisticuffs: Starting at 3rd level when you choose this tradition you have learned to punch with great force. When using your fists to make unarmed strikes, you gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls with them.
Cover Up: At 6th level you have developed quick reflexes that allow you to react and protect yourself from an incoming attacks. When a creature that you can see makes a melee attack against you, you can use your reaction and spend 1 ki point to add your proficiency bonus to your AC against melee attacks until the start of your next turn.
Fists of Fury: By 11th level your training has taught you how to harness your ki to greatly empower your strikes. You can spend up to 3 ki points, for each ki point spent you gain a +1 bonus to attack and damage rolls with unarmed strikes that you make using your fists. This effect last up to 1 minute, and you must maintain concentration to keep this effect active.
Paralyzing Blow: By 17th level, a single punch from you is enough to utterly incapacitate the mightiest of creatures. Stunning Strikes you make with your fists now paralyze the target instead of stunning them. Furthermore, you can spend 1 additional ki point when you attempt the Stunning Strike to ignore any immunity the target has against being paralyzed. |
| #17CariadocThorneDec 12, 2014 9:42:22 |
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| (Reply to #17)Bloodscythe |
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| #19Danny_MontannyDec 12, 2014 15:22:21 | I was debating that the ki cost for ignoring immunity was low. What would seem more appropriate? An extra 3? They still have a chance to succeed on their saving throw, after all. Plus, it still only lasts until the beginning of your next turn.
I just tried to keep it themed to what I thought a Pugilist should do best. Fight with their hands, with the cost of being not as well rounded as the other monk subclasses. |
| (Reply to #19)CariadocThorne |
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| #21transcendantviewerDec 17, 2014 14:14:57 |
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| (Reply to #21)Bloodscythe |
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| #23BloodscytheDec 19, 2014 13:16:59 | Have you finalized your character build yet? Have you managed any playtesting? I'm curious to see how it plays. |