Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 rgoodbb Aug 18, 2015 13:53:43	If  you please, and in your opinion good folk of the community;   What is the most efficient 4 strong team at ending Combat encounters (on average) quickly?   Both subjective and objective. Logic and anecdotes both appreciated. Theorycrafting and actual game experience wanted.   Looking at any and all issues like; Controlling Damage now Damage prevention DPR Enabling/buffing Enemy debuffing Any other stuff not not above   Does the Classic 4;           Cle/Fig/Rog/Wiz               win the combat day?   Or is it                                   Barb/Bard/Pal/Ran   Or more obscure              Dru/Mon/Sor/War   Do we double up on Fig/Fig with Wiz/Bar?   What group combined, unites total battle effectiveness?   Looking at lower levels, say 1-10   Well rounded party for this question? Not interested, Social/exploratory? Nope. I win in as little rounds as possible? Now we’re talking!   What is your opinion? What blends do you like? What doesn't work in your opinion? Best 4.
#2 bid Aug 18, 2015 14:14:28	rgoodbb wrote:
#3 rgoodbb Aug 18, 2015 14:20:26	OK. fair point.    What about an avereage number of encounters during an average working day as per rulebooks?
#4 Yunru Aug 18, 2015 15:08:52	Average is 2 enounters, short rest, 2 encounters, short rest, 2 encounters, long rest. Warlocks, Fighters and other short rest classes should do best.
#5 FuelDrop Aug 18, 2015 16:32:31	Are we talking classic dungeon crawling here? because then you have to factor in traps, which makes a rogue more useful.   I'd suggest that a bard with the criminal background is a solid group member, able to heal debuff and buff and thieves tools to stop traps. Go Valor, this party is going to want the extra front-liner   Half-orc fighter champion is a good force for your bard to multiply. Critical hitting with advantage from the bard and the fighter's multiple attacks and racial extra damage is a big deal.   An evoker with some SoS spells for backup is a good addition as well, since crowd damage is very useful vs mobs. Bard can cast Doom to drop enemy saves, give inspiration to deal extra damage to all enemies or make sure that disintegrate hits.   A paladin is also a great force multiplier, with Crusader's mantle boosting everyone's damage in a single casting and also able to heal. Also another heavy for the front lines.   2 half-power healers is almost as good as a dedicated healer, and offense wise this group has plenty of oomph.
#6 mellored Aug 18, 2015 17:09:12	If your talking about pure combat situations...   IMO: Battlemaster 6/assassin 4, crossbow expertise + sharpshooter + dex. Battlemaster 6/assassin 4, crossbow expertise + sharpshooter + dex. Sorcerer, twin greater invisibility on the fighters, and AoE as needed. Trickster cleric 1/Lore bard, bless and insperation for the fighters, inspiring leader and healing spells and the occaional AoE.   Also the face, tasked with letting the battlemasters get surprise.
#7 rgoodbb Aug 18, 2015 23:28:14	Take your pick folks: Dungeon Crawl or Pure Combat   Looks like so far fighters,and rogues (assassins) seem important with  back up from Bards, Sorcerers or Wizards etc.   Does it most often fall into Martial type - Martial type - Enabler/Disabler - AOE/Crowd Control?    Mellored: Intresting Combo. If needed is the Cleric the frontliner? I realise that your tactics probably skew where the frontline actually is but who protects the visible Sorcerer and the Cleric
#8 mellored Aug 19, 2015 7:41:59	Does it most often fall into Martial type - Martial type - Enabler/Disabler - AOE/Crowd Control?
#9 rgoodbb Aug 19, 2015 7:37:13	Never played a fighting retreat style combat deliberately. Thanks for opening my eyes to that posibility. Seems like a very sneaky cheaky tactic. Like the idea.
#10 mellored Aug 19, 2015 7:57:38	rgoodbb wrote:
#11 Noctaem Aug 19, 2015 7:58:06	mellored wrote:
#12 mellored Aug 19, 2015 8:13:12	Noctaem wrote:
#13 jaappleton Aug 19, 2015 8:54:13	It's cheesy as hell, but... Four Moon Druids.
#14 Noctaem Aug 19, 2015 8:58:13	Human Variant for the extra feat if it's a legal option is REALLY hard to beat for a crossbow expert build.  It just makes everything faster there since your goal is to kill stuff ASAP, that also means getting +10 damage mod ASAP and an extra feat let's you do that before level 5.   For the Sorcerer I have yet to play one.  Are feats important, do you just default to human variant if it's available considering the goal of the party being built?   Half-Elf bard is a solid choice.
#15 Yunru Aug 19, 2015 9:30:43	The most efficient should be the ones with Short-rest recharging powers, because they don't have to be efficient with their resources. Fighters, Warlocks, Moon Druids, and Monks all recharge on Short Rests. Three of those are spell-less and Warlocks don't have much in the way of support so it's not entirely possible, but you can nearly make a Short Rest party. Although at level 10 you can have a Sorcerer 3 (Favoured Soul for healing too)/Warlock 7 (Archfey) twin Greater Invisibility with recharging slots.
#16 awaken_D_M_golem Aug 21, 2015 13:08:34	Rogue Thief up to 13, does some interesting things. Level 3 (or 4) gets the in-combat Healing thing. Level 6 can pick the skills for the Selling Magic Items minigame. Level 11 can near guarantee the Selling Magic Items stuff. Level 13 UMD gets rid of the useless Legendary magic item problem.   Since WBL has not been solved yet, it's rather unknown how overall useful this is.  So then it's more difficult to determine if the rest of Rogue Thief 13+, is do-able for everything else.
#17 Zardnaar Aug 21, 2015 14:26:58	With a 4 man party I would go 2 melee, 1 ranged PC and 1 hybrid PC.   1 Paladin, Avenger or Oath of the Ancients. The avenger is technically better but OoA so good in regard to enemy spell casters and has better AoE. 1 Cleric (Light). Your healer can throw fireballs and use flare and short rest radiant mini fireballs. 1 Sorcerer (favoured soul: life) or Wizard (abjurer, diviner, transmuter) 1 Rogue (thief with healer feat). Bonus action healing with a healers kit    Not the highest DPS but a nice mix of damage, control and buffing. And you have a decent amount of healing as well.    Fighter 1/Warlock XYZ (fiendpact) also has great damage, temp hit points, dmage and ranged attacks via eldritch blasts.    Or if you wanted to build aroujhnd the short rest mechanic.   Light Cleric Fighter (champion sword and board or two handed battlemaster) Lore Bard Rogue (thief with healer kit)   Basically built around the short rest mechanic.