As WOTC has granted casting to Fighters and Rogues and melee ability to Sorcerors and Warlocks, who do we think is the most optimized PHB Gish? In the running are the: Eldritch knight, Arcane trickster, Dragon Sorc and the Infernal warlock. Let me know what you think.
-The Boomer
Considering we haven't seen the dragon sorcerer yet, its more than likely from hints he's going back to being a dedicated caster than gish than mixing sword and spell. You also forgot Skald bard - with Magical Secrets, they're nothing to sneer at, and they're considered Arcane. Infernal warlocks get to choose book, blade, or chain like all other pacts. You're thinking hexblade pact form, not infernal pact specifically.
So, the Arcane gish types we absolutely know of are: Eldrtich Knight, Arcane Trickster, Skald, Hexblade (fiend, fey, GOO). Arcane Trickster is likely to focus on illusions and enchantments, being all tricky, so I don't know if that will be considered "optimized" considering lack of damage focus. It is unknown if there will be a sorcerer gish variant. There is also the Ranger, Paladin, Moon Druid, and War Cleric in the running for a Divine gish. Elemental monk also has some spells they can use as elemental attacks, so they may count. Unknown if totem barbarian has any magical stuff.
I don't think sorcerors and arcane tricktsters will end up that gishy. It also depends on what a person's idea of a gish really is.
Valor bard, blade warlock, eldritch knight are my first thoughts too. Avenger paladins are my closest thoughts on divine gish based on the oath spell list and channel divinity abilities.
I could see a more-or-less even-split multiclass Fighter/Wizard actually being effective with Eldritch Knight. Whether you want to go an even 10/10 or 11/9 (in either direction) depends on if you prefer a third attack or sixth-level spells, or which 10th-level feature you're OK with giving up, if any, etc.
GladiusLegis wrote:
GladiusLegis wrote:
Heh, yeah, good point about Valor Bard and Blade Warlock.
Fighter (EK) 11/Wizard 9 gets you three attacks at least, along with access to the Wizard's 5th-level list (plus you'll have a 6th-level slot from Fighter levels/3).
Anything less than 9 Wizard levels is also pointless, because you'll just top out at 4th-level spells, which is what the EK tops out at going full class. So basically your optimal choices there are EK 11/Wizard 9, or just full EK 20.
Mephi1234 wrote:
mellored wrote:
Mephi1234 wrote:
Tangentially, I really, really hate the term "gish."
Can we find a better word?
Overpromises wrote:
Keep in mind magical secrets also adds potential for paladin smite spells or possibly some ranger spells for more combat effectiveness.
WhiteHarness wrote:
Psikerlord wrote:
Psikerlord wrote:
Mephi1234 wrote:
abanathie wrote:
Backlash3906 wrote:
WhiteHarness wrote:
GladiusLegis wrote:
abanathie wrote:
Overpromises wrote:
abanathie wrote:
11/9 also gets 6th level slots and 3 attacks but includes 5th level spells known. I disagree with only multiclassing for that 3rd attack. That break ignores wizard school features at 10th and 14th levels. I can see a wizard 14 / fighter 6 as and example that only has 2 attacks but more spells and the school features to back them up. Paladins might work for that too with the synergy between spell slots and smites.
Overpromises wrote:
The multiclassing rules track spells known and prepared separately by classes. Having 6ᵗʰ level spell slots is no guarantee of being able to cast 6ᵗʰ level spells.
There would be absolutely no room for debate if the Player’s Handbook had been released yet. Since it has not, multiclassing rules are still only speculation. I would bet my reputation that it will be as I described, though.
Overpromises wrote:
abanathie wrote:
Overpromises wrote:
abanathie wrote:
Overpromises wrote:
abanathie wrote:
Overpromises wrote:
The same question posted in the “D&D 5E Rules Q&A: Ask a Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer” thread:
http://community.wizards.com/comment/51009416#comment-51009416
Comes out today at Advance WPN stores. Will be picking mine up this afternoon, unless sold out.
I know that during playtest they were tracked separately. A Wizard 1/Cleric 19 could cast his 1st level wizard spells using 9th level spell slots (and getting the enhanced benefit) Actually, that was better for a Cleric 1/Wizard 19, 'cause you can cast 9th level Cure Wounds if you really wanted.
Overpromises wrote:
And somebody who got the book early answered the question definitively, so, no, you can't learn spells beyond an individual spellcasting class' level.
ADD: Also, definitive words on the level value of spellcasters in multiclassing to determine spell slots. Eldritch Knight and Arcane Trickster are 1/3, as expected.
Which means EK 11/Wizard 9 is better than 12/8 (due to former receiving actual 5th-level Wizard spells).
I don't see much point in being a fighter 12.
Stop at 11, and multiclass.
[quote="mellored"]
I don't see much point in being a fighter 12.
Stop at 11, and multiclass.
[/quote
Yeah, I also think that level 11 is a good stopping point for people who are multi-classing as Fighter.
Based on what has been spoiled so far...
Perhaps something along the lines of a two-weapon-fighter Rogue 3/ Warlock 6/ Fighter 11
12 attacks (due to thirsting blade and fighter extra attacks, not counting action surges) and if you do it right, auto-crit on all of them on the first round due to rogue's assassinate.
Yuukale_Narmo wrote:
Backlash3906 wrote:
Valor bard seems like the way to go. Round 1 you cast haste, then move 60 ft and make 2 attacks. Round 2+ you make 3 attacks per round. Use your 9th level slot for foresight (advantage on all attacks, saves, checks. Attacks against
you have disadvantage. It lasts 8 hours). You will be a combat machine who is alimony never hit, is super mobile, and can still provide a lot of utility.