Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Hermes_Trismegistus Jan 31, 2015 12:34:57	So, I've been thinking about making a half-elf multiclass rogue-wizard. How well do you think their abilities will mesh? Would it be better to just make an arcane trickster? I was thinking about taking a couple of levels of rogue and then going up more in wizard. Are 2-3 levels of rogue worth it for a wizard? I'm looking for suggestions on how to play a spellcaster that has some rogue abilities, but is not completely of the rogue class (hence why I'm steering away from simply running an arcane trickster). So, is it worth it? Would it simply be better to run a straight wizard, or to give in and run an arcane trickster? Any suggestions from others who have run similar characters would be useful.
#2 Macv12 Jan 31, 2015 13:49:34	This is, like, the third time I've brought this same character up on this forum for some reason. But I made an investigator-style character that was a multiclass wizard/rogue. I took almost all utility spells from wizard, and went Conjuration for the "make any object" ability. Very conveniently, this type of character doesn't need high-level spells to be roleplayed properly. Unfortunately I haven't advanced much with them.   It depends on what you want to do. If you want sneak attack to be viable, you need a lot of rogue levels, so you have to think of a build that works with only low-level wizard spells. Arcane Trickster will improve your spell slots, but otherwise doesn't have attractive features for me. On the other hand, if you just want to have some good skills, extra stealth, and a viable melee attack, you only need a couple levels of rogue. If you start as a rogue at lvl1, you get hand crossbow proficiency, which is a great way to attack from range and keep a free hand for spell components.
#3 WizardV Feb 02, 2015 22:22:37	When you say worth it for a Wizard that really depends on what you envision for your character. If you want an arcane expert, then no. You want your highest spell slots available to you. Sneak attack doesn't work with spells, so one of your main class abilities is a complete waste.   So are any of these what you envision? 1) A criminal who uses magic to augment his rogue skills. There's a locked door so you cast silence and knock it. The keys are on the guard so you pick pocket them at range. You need to scale that tower so you cast spider climb and walk right up. All of these are best served by an arcane trickster. 2) An arcane expert. You want to be the main source of plot information to the party, solving every riddle, overcoming magical traps etc. Basically you want expertise in your lore skills and high int. The two options are cleric (knowledge) 1, rogue 1, or lore bard 3. Typically I think cleric or bard are stronger since they preserve your spell slots. 3) A melee or ranged mobile spell combatant. You're running things like shocking grasp or firebolt from hiding. Rogue 2 is a heavy cost but its the only way to make this build. 4) Arcane nova. Assassinate nova combos. While sneak attack doesn't apply to spell attacks, assassinate crits do, so you sometimes see rogue 3, sorcerer X auto crit nova builds.   Rogue 1 tends to be for the expertise. If you run a skill heavy out of combat RP game this can be rather attractive. Rogue 2 tends to be for cunning action. If you're wanting mobility in combat or like playing a ninja, you definitely need rogue 2.
#4 QwertyAzerty Feb 03, 2015 11:04:27	fighter 2 for action surge, rogue assassin 3 for auto crit, then 15 level as a sorcerer to get spell level 8.   level 8 scorching ray mean 9 ray dealing 2d6+5 each, all crit so 4d6+5 each. for a total of 36d6+45 (171 average)+ level 7th auto crit scorchign ray (32d6+40=152) then quicken auto crit firebolt for 8d10+5 (50) for a total of 373 damage with advantage to make sure you don't miss. I believe this is the biggest nova possible.   Then you still have your lvl 6 and under spell for the rest of the day
#5 Mommy_was_an_Orc Feb 03, 2015 11:06:05	In general, I think it depends on what you're trying to do. But... Probably the best combo by far for practical play is a Rogue 1/Wizard X. It interferes least with spellcasting and 16/16 starting stats is perfectly viable.
#6 ppaladin123 Feb 03, 2015 12:38:56	On a related note, I think it is pretty clear that if you want to multiclass eldritch knight with wizard,  EK 11/wiz 9 is pretty much the optimal combo. But what about if you want to multiclass an arcane trickster with wizard? Are there obvious cut-points? It doesn't seem as clear cut as the extra attacks a fighter gets.
#7 Mommy_was_an_Orc Feb 04, 2015 10:40:17	ppaladin123 wrote: