Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 woif Aug 18, 2014 12:03:45	So I've come up with the basics of an idea for a gish styled melee caster and want to seek advice/critiques. 1-4 take two levels on each class and play like a normal ranged caster. Level 5 take another warlock level for pact blade and swap for the double attack invocation. 4 more levels in sorcerer to get level 3 spells and elemental affinity (dragon blood) 2 more levels in warlock to get 3rd level spell slots. The basic tactic would be to double attack with pact blade then quicken cast a fireball (or similarly powerful 3rd level spell). As a bonus you can burn warlock spell slots to gain sorcery points or to cast sorcerer spells. So what do you guys think about this build, is it a viable gish? Does it bloom to late (5th and 8th level being your big power spikes). What would you guys change/add? Also keep in mind I'm not worried about max level optimization as most of our play will be in levels 5-15.
#2 Proletheus Aug 18, 2014 13:02:05	woif wrote:
#3 Mephi1234 Aug 18, 2014 14:08:50	Proletheus wrote:
#4 Proletheus Aug 18, 2014 14:49:40	Mephi1234 wrote:
#5 woif Aug 18, 2014 17:26:31	<p>As per warlock invocations the PHB says on p110 &quot;if an eldritch invocation has prerequisites you must meet them to learn it&quot; an the thirsting blade prerequisites are &quot;5th level, pact of the blade feature&quot;</p> in comparison lets look at the elemental disciplines feature of the monk on PHB p81 "if a discipline requires a level, you must be that level in this class to learn the discipline" It seems to me that they would have used that same language with warlock invocations if the really meant it to be warlock levels. I've already talked to my DM about this and he agrees with my interpretation and doesn't think it will be game breaking. In this thread I'd rather discuss viability of the build and maybe some extra options I hadn't yet considered. Also note that you get access to 3rd level spells at char level 8, 11 just turns warlock slots into 3rd level. It's obviously not the strongest build possible, but it seems to be viable. I do plan on using the warlock hex spell, and for my defensive options I was planning on using the fiendish vigor invocation with the draconic resilience feature and throwing up a shield spell on occasion if I think I might die or take a particularly large hit.
#6 Mephi1234 Aug 19, 2014 2:43:50	woif wrote:
#7 woif Aug 19, 2014 9:13:29	Thanks for the input Mephi, as much as I love the flavor behind the character concept I'm not sure it will work out that well on the field. My group has been averaging 2 short rests per day (using the play test rules), but even then I don't think it's going go help me out enough. Well it looks like we're back to the drawing board for this one.
#8 Mephi1234 Aug 19, 2014 11:56:55	Here's the thing about the warlock - without the promise of short rests between every encounter (ala 4e style 5 minute rest), you pretty much have to run them as an at-will caster.     The spell slots are simply are too rare to count on much otherwise.     Spells that last long term (Conjure Elemental, Armor of Agryths, Hex to name a few) are really good for this reason.    As are utility spells that generally end up being used out of combat and in social situations, where its clear you'll have a chance to short rest before combat comes up again.      But, with the default hour rest, and if you go into a dungeon crawl?   Chances are those spell slots will vanish very quickly.         I mean, its a very good idea.   I just don't think that the math is consistant enough to make it work long term - its too dependant upon the GM being generous with short rests.     If your GM is open to houserules, might I suggest something like Metamagic: Dagger Spells.    Something that lets you charge weapons with the power of spells, or to do something akin to Battle Magic (ala Eldritch Knight / Skald).    It would let you pull off the same rough style you were looking for (gish with quick fireballs), but as a pure sorcerer with lots more spells?    Or maybe be a lot more selective with your warlock levels?   You only need three, total.
#9 woif Aug 19, 2014 12:43:57	Mephi1234 wrote:
#10 Aeonphlux Oct 06, 2014 13:07:02	Clarification needed, per the warlock entry under spell slots, it states "You regain all expended spell slots when you finish a short or long rest." this is a single sentence by its self in this paragraph, by all i take it to mean ALL spell slots, if you're multi class cleric/warlock or wizard/warlock, the RAW means that after a short rest you get every expeneded spell slot you have used since your last short or long rest. Nothing in the text implies that it is for warlock slots only....
#11 Yunru Oct 06, 2014 13:23:58	Pact Magic and Spellcasting don't merge as per Multiclass rules. You regain Pact Magic slots on a short rest and Spellcasting slots on a long.
(Reply to #11) Aeonphlux	Yunru wrote:
#13 HeirRaktus Oct 06, 2014 21:51:45	Theres also the fact that you'll be Quick casting Eldritch Blast at higher levels for multiple beams a turn....
(Reply to #12) EzechielDantan	Aeonphlux wrote:
#15 Misting Oct 07, 2014 1:32:47	Another issue with this build that at Sorc2/Warlock3 you cannot take Thirsting Blade. The retraining part of Invocations state that the Invocation you are changing to "must be one that you could learn at that level", referring to the level at which you first gained it. Since Thirsting Blade requires level 5, you couldn't have taken it at level 2. Therefore, you cannot retrain one of your first two into it, but must wait until you hit level 5 and can pick a new invocation, at which point you'd qualify.  That feels intentional to me, since that's how multiattacks work with other classes during multiclassing.
#16 Yunru Oct 07, 2014 4:02:23	But you're not "retraining" an invocation, you're learning one.
#17 Jumuraa Oct 07, 2014 6:38:51	Yunru wrote:
#18 Polaris Oct 07, 2014 7:31:59	Jumuraa wrote:
#19 durntaur Oct 07, 2014 9:05:40	EzechielDantan wrote:
#20 FunkySpunk Jun 05, 2015 14:32:53	Sorry to bump an old thread, but has this ever been resolved? Can a blade pact warlock take Thirsting Blade as a Warlock 3/ anything 2, assuming 5th character level is in Warlock?
(Reply to #20) Ashrym	FunkySpunk wrote: