I've been participating in my first 5e adventure. The DM is one of my husband's best friends, who we met during the years I worked at some game store. We're really all lovey dovey and like each other. His wife is fast becoming a close friend too.
So, they ask me to join. I buy the player's manual, spend a couple days studying, then decide on a wizard from the school of illusion. Thinking these things might work, I based my build around crowd control and illusions. Some cantrips are basic pacafist things, like blade ward, dancing lights, mage hand, minor illusion, and prestidigithingy. Level ones include color spray, disguise self, grease, shield, silent image, sleep, tasha's lovely laughter. Level twos are alter self, blindness/deafness, enlarge reduce, and phantasmal force. My level 3's are counterspell, haste, and major image. Level four is phantasmal killer. Feats taken include lucky and warcaster. Background is a hermit, who believes in the powerful universal force of Sentience as strongly as the belief in gravity, or water, and as thus I roleplay him to be at disadvantage whenever he strikes a killing blow against an intelligent life form even though that's not at all in the rules.
Okay, so in social interactions I've been great. Alter self or disguise self for brilliant deceptions. Silent image works wonderfully for stepping off somewhere to snoop. Grease is hilarious. Tasha's laughter is absolutely OP. Shield is meh, still cast it anyhow. Enlarge/reduce and haste are wonderful for enabling tanks to smash face.
My major resentment is the illusions, the backbone of the build. I have yet to succeed once in a combat encounter, after a dozen+. I'll throw a huge dragon roaring and dripping acid out of its nose, and a TROLL, like a dumb smelly troll, saves, then the other troll saves, then the other... cast blindness and the target can magically run around obstacles like it has perfect photographic memory, then run inbetween allies, then determine which guy that isn't a peer it wants to strike and simply has to roll at DA for its attacks. I'll cast minor illusion behind the blinded guy, the sound of a giant spider hissing, and all the bad guys make saves and the blinded dude just goes, "yeah, I hear a spider, let me not worry about it and continue hitting this bad guy I can't see in a 5x5 square." Okay so obviously blindness doesn't work and the rules just specify actions at a disadvantage, I can get over that. Not really but whatever.
Phantasmal Force, the target on a failed save sees whatever I want and percieves it AS REAL. So I throw this cultish that worships some sort of Cthulu into a well of deep water with a giant octopus attacking it, cultist fails. Well, this guy just goes, "meh, whatever," and still runs around attacking things. Takes 2d6 psychic damage, meh, whatever, obviously I won't acknowledge this giant octopus strangling and drowning me because I saw some heroes I have to kill.
Major image, the entire room will fail against saves but everybody thinks it's just fine to ignore the image and sounds of a dwarven brigade in a dwarven ruin bursting through a door wielding dwarven killing things yelling and preparing to charge. There's no damage listed in the spell, no other effects, and the DM won't roleplay to make anyone at all react to a brigade of dwarves that are about to slaughter them.
Phantasmal Killer, the manifistation of target's WORST FEARS made corpeal percieved by the target at will. Target is frightened. DM is like, "ok well that just means target can't move forward. So this guy is going to ignore IT'S WORST FEARS MADE CORPEAL and continue throwing arrows and spells at us. Psychic damage cripples target to critical, and the target still hasn't saved, continuing to ignore IT'S WORST FEARS MADE CORPEAL, to shoot more spells and arrows at us.
I'm left here with a feeling of defeat, that my most effective spells are Tasha's Hideous Laughter, Grease, and Haste. Everything is done strictly by the rules and I feel like it's a ROLL playing game not a ROLE playing game. The rules don't specify how NPC's react to illusions, so the NPC's don't react to illusions. Phantasmal Killer doesn't specify that the target can't still take an action, and despite being frightened and being confronted against it's worst fears, target continues to function normally ignoring this mental conjuration as if it wasn't there at all despite failing. Phantasmal Force says that the target acts and thinks as if the illusion were real, but well, every target remains combat capable and wrecks house.
I haven't had a single, successful image cast into combat despite creative thoughts because there isn't any specification in the rules about how they should react to these things and this campaign is apparently all rules and no role play. To me, at some point it's not even role play anymore, it's just basic logic. A blinded target can't run through an obstacle course and determine exactly who among a large group of people who it's going to attack. A person facing off against a huge spider, failing their save and believing it's real, turn their backs to this huge spider and continue attacking the obviously greater threats of a couple skinny elves and a novice tank fumbling his rolls. Someone confronting the embodyment of their worst fears can simply ignore it, take significant damage, and function normally otherwise.
I'm ready to quit this campaign. It's caused significant friction between me and the DM, my friend. I whine about it a lot. My whining has gotten me many statements of, "if you don't like it quit." Well I play this with my husband and my friends, I'd like to see reason, to see role playing, not quit and carry a grudge every night when my man is on Fantasy Grounds having a blast. Party members tell me I should have taken attack cantrips, I should have taken direct damage spells, No matter that my PC is a pacafist. No matter that in concept illusions should work perfectly fine but take a little role play on both my part and the DM's part. Obviously the only thing of use is to be a fire breathing wizard, an archer, or any other type of direct damage dealer.
I'm ready to cry about this, this simple game. If I push it much further I won't be welcome at his home, which means I won't be able to see my other friend there who I go out with, or cook with regularly. My husband will probably resent me partially for causing friction among his friends group instead of just nodding my head and letting everyone have fun. I'll resent him if I quit or get fired and he goes on to enjoy himself thoroughly with his tankity tank tank. I watch some anime about an illusionist casting giant snake illusions and people being paralyzed with fear and think how nice it would be if my PC could do that. I'll read a book about an entire army stopping dead from full charge as an illusion of the sky being ripped open by giant hands appears. But no, my PC can't make a single thing happen burning up level 3 or 4 slots with pertinent on point creative illusions even though he's from the school of illusion itself and should be really good at them. The only spells that work are comically overpowered spells that result in laughter, 3 stooges style slipping and sliding, or making myself inferior and inactive to maintain focus on haste or enlarge.
Should I just quit, or kill this PC and pull out the sorcerer, or shutup and deal with it like a mature grown up? Am I freaking out over a little bitty issue?
If you've read this far, thanks for listening to my insufferable whining. I can go be emo somewhere else if that's what you want.
Hmm. Seems like you should have talked over the game expectations before making your character.
It sounds like your character while a great concept is the wrong type of character for the game they are playing. Yeah I would roll up a blaster type.
You chose the single most DM fiat based class in the game, and ended up with a DM who has a strong bias against it. You chose to play a pacifist in a group of murder hobos, with a DM who apparently favors combat play. You probably didn't know either of these things going into this group, but now you do. Based on what you've described, I don't think you're whining. I think you went in with certain expectations that have not, and probably will not be fulfilled. How to proceed? Quit, persevere, or adapt.
On quitting... It sounds like you and the other players get along fine, but it's a crappy thing for someone to say "if you dont like it quit." Personally, I would have walked away from the group the moment I heard that, because f$#% that person. That said, it's not just you causing friction. It's you and one or more other people. Don't beat yourself up because you have different expectations than other players/the DM. Sometimes it is best to walk away though.
On perseverance... You mentioned you have a great time in social situations. What's the social/exploration/combat split time-wise? The thing about social situations is they tend to focus a lot on one person at a time, and the improv skills to keep everyone involved in them take time and willful effort to develop. Combat is something that everyone gets to participate in more or less simultaneously, and is a far easier way to keep people engaged. One way to look at it is that every minute of DM face time you get role playing is valued at several minutes of combat time in terms of keeping everyone at the table involved. Same can be said of the rogue going off to explore on his own, or other one-on-one situations. Short version is, value the time you get doing the stuff you like, and let it sustain you.
On adapting... how important is it that you play a pacifist? You don't have to go 180 degrees in the opposite direction and start playing a murder hobo, but you might consider generating a new character, or having a dramatic incident that alters your current character's philosophy. Going back to that, "if you dont like it, quit" I doubt the DM will adjust to your preferences. You can be persistent, open and honest without causing friction though.
I agree that it seems like you need to actually talk with them about what kind of game it is. You have already done a bit, helping with social interactions, but the illusions are supposed to have effects in combat too. Maybe try some trap illusions. Phantasmal force a wall around a few enemies. The enemies cannot simply ignore it, as it is a solid wall, floor to ceiling. If they continue to ignore it, I am afraid you might have to shelf you creativity and play something more obviously destructive. You will also have to call the DM on the blatant refusal to accept that illusions can be useful.
illusions are among the hardest things in D&D to get right.
on one hand, you get your situation, where the illusionist feels bad.
but played the other way and they can win an ecounter with 1 spell. turning a big bad monster into a frightened little child would be fun for you, but it's not fun for the rest of the party beat on a cowering enemy, or to bully the blind who can't fight back.
it takes a very good DM to manage a middle ground.
so to answer your question, you are both being picked on, and are whining.
you should be constructive and help your DM. Make suggestions for a middle ground.
BernieSandersFanGirl wrote:
I sympathise. But sympathy from some guy on some forum isn't very constructive, so I'll tell you what I'd do, in the hope that it may help you come up with a way forward.
I love your character concept, but you've made it clear that the DM isn't letting illusions be effective. Since adjudicating illusions is one of the most difficult things for a DM, his failure here is unlikely to be a deliberate sleight against you.
If I had a brilliant concept that the DM won't let work as it should, the way forward is simply to take that character out of that game and save it for a campaign run by a DM who can judge it more fairly. A pre-campaign conversation with that DM will go a long way towards that, and the worst that could happen is that you choose not to use that concept in that campaign either. Only use it when you and the DM are on the same wavelength re: illusions.
Meanwhile, replace this character in your current campaign with another PC based on another of your brilliant ideas that you've been itching to try out. : )
Have a non-confrontational conversation with your current DM, and tell him that you are going to take that PC out of that game, and play another instead. The reason is simply that your PC is not working out as you'd hoped (true, but don't get drawn into whose fault it is!). Work with the DM to make sure that the replacement is okay, how to introduce the new PC, and make things as smooth and friendly as possible.
I once had a 3E paladin mounted on a unicorn with air walking horseshoes. It was basically a surface-to-air unicorn! Suddenly, all the combats were in tiny rooms or in 5-foot tunnels. I realised that my PC was a problem for that DM, so I had my PC ride off into the sunset (literally!), and I replaced her with another of my cool PC ideas.
You know it makes sense. : )
Hope this helps.
Before anything else, I'll note that some of the handling is covered by presentation. Even if a spell doesn't actively make the target run away in fear, it makes a big difference if the DM notes that the guy looks shaken as he fires his arrows and his having trouble holding his bow (hence, the disadvantage on attack rolls). A good description of what's going on can make it a lot more satisfying, even if the effect in terms of game mechanics is exactly the same.
It's a bit worse with something like major image, where the effect depends entirely on how the DM thinks people should react. In practical terms, a direct threat is maybe going to inhibit the creatures for a turn or two before they find out it isn't real, or isn't really as threatening because it won't attack (and tying up those enemies for a turn or two is still a good use for the spell). But that can be hard to work in if the DM doesn't have a great sense of how to translate typical responses to an illusion into the practical effect they produce.
ArialBlack wrote:
It may not have turned out how you expected, but throwing blind on an enemy definitely helps out your party. Everyone getting advantage on attacks against the enemy and the enemy having disadvantage on every attack is a big deal.
If you can make Minor Illusion appear as whatever you want, try to make one-way walls or mirrors between your party member and the enemy. That way they can stand on one side and attack freely with advantage! This will be just ridiculous in a hallway. Imagine 5 ranged attacks plunking away at a guy by travelling through a one-way mirror, and the mirror stays around for 1 minute.
With Major Image, you can create a giant one-way mirror 20 feet high, and you can move it around on your turns. That green dragon or giant is in for a living nightmare. As long as it fails the investigation check it can not see to the other side and can't take attacks of opportunity against approaching enemies. The creature has to spend an action on its turn to even attempt the investigation.
Even physical attacks from a space on the other side of the mirror should have advantage, the attacker is unseen.
The Fear spell is a fantastic illusion. It makes a creature drop any weapons they are holding, then use the Dash action to run away from you, they don't even get a save until they break line of sight.
This deprives the enemies from making attacks, and can trigger attacks of opportunity from team mates savy enough to stand next to them before the enemy turn comes up.
Hypnotic Pattern is another illusion that will incapacitate enemies, allowing some automatic critical hits from allies.
When you level up you may have the option to replace a few spells in your book. You may want to fix a few spells that require a DM's cooperation.
Could be a good time to check out the new spells in the Elemental Evil Player's Companion:
http://media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/EE_PlayersCompanion.pdf
I've never made a character without first talking to the DM and the rest of my group, to make sure that my character fits the campaign. That said, I play an illusion based witch in a campaign myself, and happen to be blessed with a Dm that does get it. He knows that my character isn't damage focused, so it all has to come from being smart with the illusions. If used correctly, illusions can be very powerful, as long as enemies don't make their saves. If they fail their save, then the rules state that the DM must have the enemies respond accordingly. How they respond exactly, is up to the DM, but there definitely should be a reasonable response.
So here's what you can do:
-Talk to the DM, and explain that with the way he's ruling, he's making illusions useless.
-Discuss with the group the option of rolling a new character
-Pick new spells
-Find a new group (last resort)
I believe that you should always try to make it work. Leaving a group should always be a last resort.
FrogReaver wrote:
consider how you would feel if an enemy wizard cast illusions on you.
also monsters cannot move towards their fear.
BernieSandersFanGirl wrote:
On topic: It seems like you are over-valuing illusions, and your DM is undervaluing them. I suggest talking with the DM and either switching out the illusion spells for other control spells, or creating a new character that you can be happy with. I don't think it is worthwhile trying to reach an 'understanding' about illusions. Its a game to have fun, switch things up so you can all have fun.
Off Topic: Seeing a Bernie Sanders Fan Girl recognize that maybe she is just whining too much.... kinda makes me chuckle... ;)
BernieSandersFanGirl wrote:
I think what iserith said probably hits the nail on the head. Talk to your DM about your intent of some of the less mechanics heavy Illusion spells. Things like, "I want to distract them, so my allies are at an advantage when attacking the Trolls" will go a long way in adjudicating. The Help action for all your allies for using a 3nd-level spell slot seems pretty fair to me.
The usual correct advice is being given here. Talk to your DM, talk about both your expectations and goals. I love iserith's advice on telling the DM the desired effect of the illusion.
I'd add that you should to sit down OUT OF GAME with the DM to talk about this situation. Preferably in a setting that has nothing to do with the game, like a coffeeshop. Do it over the phone or even over e-mail if you have to.
You explain how you feel, and how important it is for you to be able to keep having fun in this game. Be sure to let him know that you appreciate the other aspects of the game, that it's just the effects of your illusions in combat that you are frustrated with. Give the same examples you gave us about succesful illusionists, and how awesome you'd think it would be if yours would be like that.
The most important thing though is to keep the conversation positive. Don´t talk (whine) about all the things you don't like. Instead focus on how you would like things to be, ask the DM how he views that, and see how you guys can get to some middle ground.
Remember, all interpersonal conflict can be solved by positive two-way communication. Be clear about how you feel, and don´t get the other person riled up so they feel they have to react defensively.
You're obviously invested in this game and willing to work for it, which is great. Good luck, and let us know how it works out!
FrogReaver wrote:
Illusion and divination spells are the most despised spells by dms. I would love to see an illusionist like the one you created in a game I Dmed, but other DMs seem to nerf those type of spells as a natural habit. It's as if using illusions and divination spells is cheating and Dms feel the need to nerf them at all times.
Talk to your Dm and make a new Pc more in accordance to the way the group plays. Or seek a new group playing a more dynamic DND game.
moonbeast wrote:
I think the DM is more discriminating against the potential perils of imaginative uses of illusions than you.
Most problems with D&D are a conflict of play styles and the preferences there in, it sounds like you and the DM are trying to play a different sort of game.
My advice is, as other's have said... try and talk to the DM about it, your frustration and phrase it in a “You seem to have a problem with how I'm playing the game... how can I make it work”.
And will hopefully give a chance for constructive criticisms that is easier to swallow.
I can be pretty annoying when you have a DM who doesn't get what you're going for.
But the best way of showing your play style works is to allow it to happen when you DM a game.
I also want to look at this from the DM's point of view - bare with me please. Illusions, as somebody has stated above, are hard to manage in combat as a DM because they involve combat tricks. Other (non-illusion) combat tricks in the history of D&D have included combination spells such as Transmute Rock to Mud (causing a character to sink) and then Dispel Magic (causing the opponent to be stuck fast). Another was Wall of Iron and then Gust of Wind (to force the huge heavy Wall to fall on someone). In an earlier edition my brother played a Drow Lich who used a Gnat cantrip and polymorph other to turn this into a blue whale when it was over someones head. What I am saying is that it is not just illusions that cause problems but illusions are notorious for this.
Your DM's big problem is how to adjudicate the combat trick.
- Too effective (i.e. too powerful an effect) and this becomes a staple tactic that may break the rules making him really unhappy.
- Too weak (as appears to be the case in your given examples) and the Illusion spells are useless in combat making you really unhappy.
My advice would be as others to discuss this with the DM. Work out some staple strategies for example:
- an Illusionary monster appearing without substance that might distract an opponent just for an instant
- a monster that can actually draw an attack - i.e. waste the target creatures action
Look at the spells level (Cantrip or 1st or 2nd etc.) and then with your DM co-work out what you can reasonably expect a spell of that level to do by comparing it to other existing spells.
Taking the first example given above - you and your DM know that the Truestrike Cantrip can provide advantage for a single attack. Your DM might agree with you that the Cantrip Minor Illusion cleverly cast might distract a targets single attack and cause disadvantage on the roll. This being functionally equivalent in terms of power to Truestrike. You will therefore have this as a viable combat strategy and the DM will not have to wing it/make difficult judgement calls on the spot.
Be aware that:
- For foes who have seen your tricks you might be expected to mix in some genuine summon spells if you want to keep convincing them. If you use a genuine summons and the opponent dismisses it as an illusion the DM might (generously) rule it gets advantage.
- Spells such as Phantasmal Killer have fixed game effects so do not necessarily read into them more that they actually say.
If you decide to stick with this character.... I like the advice of getting the DM to work with you to figure out what would be likely to distract/frighten/etc the enemy. By telling him your intention, he might be willing to give you some feedback on what he thinks will work.
But I would seriously consider changing from illusion to something else....
OP:
Can you make a trip to Ft Wayne IN? I would love to have you over for a few sessions.
In-game, because your character sounds like an opportunity for ME to go all Robin Williams -style crazy and bounce off the walls. 
Out-of-game, because I want to talk your ear off about politics. (You do not understand the true nature of the Force...) 
More seriously,
If your current DM and group are not into a sneak-and-trick atmosphere, then your options are limited - and not happy ones. You can make a new character that fits their campaign, or find another group.that is more your style. Don't try to deliver an ultimatum that the DM has to change to suit you; that never works. You could offer to DM for a week or two, running something that is more your style as a "change of pace".
My Tiamat group is also the FLGS's effort to draw in brand-new players to D&D, so I've had to learn to be flexible. A long-term-friends group won't be so accomodating to a newer player. Alas. Perhaps your FLGS has something going that you could join?
Iserith,
You've yet to disappoint. You're one of the most positive, creative, thoughtful DMs out there from what I've seen and read. You totally "get it" from a DM's and player's perspective. I salute you. I've been meaning to say that for a bit.
BernieSandersFanGirl,
You've great taste in politcians.
I'm not going to go line by line. I think there's a certain bias evident with your DM, and from what you've described, I'm not certain the DM has followed the rules as written for several of your spells and he's certainly taken some of the "umph" out of potentially excellent roleplaying scenes. I woud suggest a session in which you carefully observe how he handles other spellcasters (if there are any) and whether he alters the monsters and NPC responses to their spells. Does he do the same thing with others, most notably when they use spells that create conditions (like frightened and blindness) and aren't exclusively damaging spells? If so, there it's more of a 'mechanic' glossing over that he's doing because he may not like to track conditions, he finds it burdersome, prefer hack n' slash in combat, or some other subjective reason and its not "about you" per se.
If he adheres to the rules with spells cast by other players and does not diminish their effectiveness, then you have a total different issue at hand and how you address it depends on your circle of friends particular social dynamics, and I'd be at a loss to help you address it.
Gwaithador wrote:
BernieSandersFanGirl: It really sounds like the DM has no idea what to do with your current character. Here's what I'd do:
If the other players are having a good time, talk to them first and find out if they think the DM is being unfair to you or your character. But keep an open mind and don't make it sound like you're trying to "undermine" the DM or cut him down in any way. Ask them if they think a different character would work out better in the campaign, and see if they have any suggestions. They might surprise you.
I recommend this approach because the DM probably has enough to do (running a campaign is a lot of work) without taking extra time to sort out issues for one player/character. You'll be doing him a big favor if you can handle this yourself, with the help of the other players. If you and the other players decide on a new character concept that you're interested in playing (surely you've got more than one), and you think the DM will like it better than your current character, then take it to the DM and see what he thinks of it.
"My old character hasn't worked out so well; if it's OK with you, I'd like to run something else. What do you think of this new character?" Show it to him at the end of a game session so he's got time (between then and the next game) to figure out how to work a new character into the campaign, and write out your old character. And you'll have time to make changes if there's anything on the new character sheet he has trouble with.
Have fun and good luck.
Danny_Montanny wrote:
BernieSandersFanGirl wrote:
BernieSandersFanGirl wrote:
BernieSandersFanGirl wrote:
Hahahah, a hilarious image and true words, indeed.
To the OP, I’m sorry to hear that the group didn’t work out. But a DM whose response to player issues is “well just quit,” probably isn’t a good DM. There are plenty of gaming groups out there that do value creativity over just how much damage a character can do in combat.
On the subject of illusions, I’ll agree they’re really tricky to get the power balance right. I always try to eyeball it based on complexity and the level of the spell. On the one hand, I don’t want to stifle imagination and inventiveness, and on the other I don’t want to give illusionists carte blanche.
svendj wrote:
It's worth noting that you can play a pacifist in 5E and still use attack spells, unless one's character is opposed to doing anything at all that brings harm to another intelligent creature (in which case, terrifying them to death with their worst fears might be considered harmful 
). The player can choose whether an enemy is killed or knocked out by "fatal" damage, so if you reduce a creature to zero HP, you can always declare that you have knocked them out. You can just as easily flavour your attack spells as stun bolts, for that matter.
Direach wrote:
Question to the OP, and I hope this is not offensive - Are you the only woman in the group? Is it all men? Just wondering if there's an element of sexism in play there.
Also, to echo other posters' comments, it's the DM's job, particularly in a homebrew campaign, to create some "spotlight" moments for each player. That means creating encounters/roleplaying situations which highlight the PC's skills/background/talents/abilities. OP's DM failed in that regard, or couldn't care less about that.
Ralif_Redhammer wrote:
Yeah, I wouldn't recomend playing an illusionist with a new group. Its really hard for DMs to do it right, and its really hard to prove defintively that your DM isn't just ignoring them. So lots of newer or less experienced DMs just ignore them. Its pretty common for someone to play an illusionist, and the DM to just say "everything always autowins" and move on. The DM sounds kind of crappy overall or I'd suggest working with him to make a new PC and running with that. His attitude of "If you don't like it, quit" tells me you should probably quit.
To find a new group, just start your own. Invite your friends, and run the game yourself. Remember the lessons learned from this DM. Don't ignore illusions, and if your players complain and don't like it enough, they will quit.
Good luck, and ask us a lot of questions on how to DM.
Imaculata wrote:
I'm the only woman. It is all army vets there from the good ole afghanistan days.
Krusk wrote:
FrogReaver wrote:
Direach wrote:
BernieSandersFanGirl wrote:
It's been my experience that DMs are either flexible, or inflexible when it comes to working with new (to them) ideas. If you've been trying to fix things, and they aren't improving, it is really important to not expect the DM to change, and do what is best for yourself.
If you aren't happy with the DM's style, I feel you would be happier with another DM. It's a tough choice because you don't get to play with your husband, and that can be painful. But what is more painful is having to deal with a DM who cannot accomodate YOUR style, or to cause real-world social friction because of a game. There is a happy middle somewhere, but if you aren't there, don't try to force it.
There are other DMs out there. Let your husband have this game wtih his DM buddy. Don't take away his fun just because you aren't having fun. But, there is nothing stopping both of you from joining another game with another DM. There are a lot of DMs out there, each with their own style. I promise you, you will find a better DM if you keep looking.
Good luck!
Are you yourself an Afghan vet, or is it only the rest of the table?
As some vets feel more comfortable talking to other soldiers than civilians, you shoulndt take it personally when he would prefer using your husband as an intermediate on touchy subjects (if you are a civilian that is).
Suggestions on getting more bang for your illusions
1) Slightly change your character from an illusionist to a PSYOPS specialist - have the rest of the table pitch in with great ideas and examples of psycological warfare being used and then employ those ideas as illusions. Heck, in offgame time have the guy thats normally the DM pitch in with his own stories, then use that in games later on. Maybe army intel told his platoon about a heavy IED (mined) area, and he had to circumvent it, only to fall in a talib ambush. Maybe some at the table heard some stories about some guys getting pinned down by the enemy being 80 mujaheedins strong, only to find out it was Najib and his friend high on hashish talking crap on their radios. The gulf war etc also had some great "illusions" Im sure several at the table knows some of those, share those ideas in an open forum to get everyone on the same page.
2) Have the others support your ideas whenever he makes a "boring" ruling. This ofcourse means you would have to do some homework beforehand. Get the opinion of everyone at the table about your illusions. Is it only the DM thats the problem or do several share his opinion? if its only the DM I think it would be possible to motivate the rest of the table to support you openly. If for instance you would create the illusion of a wall, thus neutralising the 5 archers and letting the party deal with the close combat dudes unmolested - have your husband immediatly exclaim some supporting arguments before the DM make his ruling. Comments about how thats 101 in soldiering with smokescreens, canalizing terrain, PSYOPS, battlefield control and killzones etc. The DM might go in soldier mode and comply
3) have the DM use more illusions himself and play along when encountered by them in entertaining ways (without getting your characters killed) you could easliy swap warstories like in the first suggestion, get the DM motivated to try some of those tricks on the group.
Obstacles you might have to be aware of
1) The DM put an effort into creating some combat encounters for the players to kill. He sees it as a failure when the minions just surrender or run away, or slash impotently at the air after non-existing creatures.
2) The DM doesnt like your characters traits, its not about the illusions- maybe he thinks that what your character is going through emotionally lies to close to himself. If you are a civilian he might even feel mocked by a civilian trying to play what some real vets go through after deployment. Because civilians will always do it wrong, and if they do it right its even worse. If your are a soldier yourself he might feel uncomfortable because either someone at the table has PTSD or he thinks its a cry of help from you.
3) He dont like improvising, if you are just creating some illusions and then waiting for him to adjucate how they will react. Hed much rather just note down how many HP they suffer from a damaging spell. maybe he doesnt want to show favoritism to his friends wife, the only female at the table- and on purpose rule your actions harsher.
4) he is stubborn as a mule
BernieSandersFanGirl wrote:
Krusk wrote:
sirkaikillah11 wrote:
Good call. Using a real sense of imagination and creativity to the illusions counts for a whole lot more than just “a dragon appears out of nowhere and breathes fire at the enemies.”
Imaculata wrote:
To the OP, your DM is not the best but you're also whining too much. I suggest you tweak your character or play a new one. If you like D&D, you will get another a chance at some point to play this particular character concept with another DM, or you may develop the skills over time to be a fair, unbiased DM over time, in which case every character you ever wanted to have some fun with can be an NPC as long as you are not too precious about them.
You only have control of yourself, so focus on that. Ask to play an enchanter instead of an illusionist if you want to mess with enemy minds, or just adjust your tactics until you can expand your spellbook to more exact types of magic since being an illusionist does not force you to cast illusions constantly. Hold Person, Hold Monster, Otto's Irresistable Dance, etc. are a lot less open to interpretation about how they work, and you can always describe Hold Person in-character as paralyzing the target by overwhelming his mind with images of his fears.
BernieSandersFanGirl wrote:
Awakened_Gazebo wrote:
OMG!! It is a game. Stop making it a huge deal. Stop playing the illusionist... really, just stop. It has not been working, it is not going to work. Doesn't matter if the reason is the DM or you... it is isn't working (which it isn't), then move to something else. Try a fighter, or rogue, or barbarian, or evoker wizard, or warlock, or any of the other 30-40 options you have.
You say you are there to spend time with husband and his friends... so stop making it be about your illusions.
Coredump00 wrote:
Coredump00 wrote:
BernieSandersFanGirl wrote:
BernieSandersFanGirl wrote:
TenaciousJ wrote:
Oh sweet lord
I have removed content from this thread because trolling/baiting is a violation of the Code of Conduct.
You can review the Code here: http://www.wizards.com/Company/About.aspx?x=wz_company_about_codeofconduct
Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks.You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively.
If you wish to report a post for Code of Conduct violation, click on the Report Comment button below the post and this will submit your report to the moderators on duty.
The DM took out flanking and I complained that as an illusionist that was one of the few mechanics I could exploit. He said it wasn't fair for his toons to be flanked and for me to get over, that a multi action creature obviously could see behind them. I pointed out that's an exelent example of role play and all the other examples of our party role playing. I then even asked him to kill my toon just to let me start up a new toon without any expectation of role playing, all mechanics, so I wouldn't be having unrealistic expectations in his campaign, and he told me the party would be just fine without me. Like seriously. I've lost respect. I said my hubs and I will find a new campaign.
This entire ordeal has been terrible. I get it illusionists are hard. I offered a way out, got kicked out. I just don't get it anymore. At least it's resolved.
That DM sounds like a complete tool, and I hope you find a better game.
I'v played D&D for 30 years with many many DM's and I've only ever been mildly annoyed with one.
Please don't lose faith in the game. From your imagination it sounds as if you were born to have fun with your PC's
I know many DM's would think you a breath of fresh air for their group.
Agree with JackofAllTrades. Go find your game....and drag that hubbie along with you!
Imaculata wrote:
JackOfAllTirades wrote:
BernieSandersFanGirl wrote:
Rasufemagger
Oh, sorry, is this all a really long joke?
My bad.
rgoodbb wrote:
TenaciousJ wrote:
In sum: does the player need to find a new group? Or does the group need to find a new player? From obvious and more subtle hints I would be thinking the latter.
TenaciousJ wrote:
FrogReaver wrote:
BernieSandersFanGirl wrote:
Mommy_was_an_Orc wrote:
warpiglet wrote:
Mommy_was_an_Orc wrote:
Mommy_was_an_Orc wrote:
my formatting is yacked again, so this looks funny:
BernieSandersFanGirl wrote:
BernieSandersFanGirl wrote:
BernieSandersFanGirl wrote:
Your being discrimated against. The GM falls in the category of he prefers hack and slash and role playing isn't a strong point of his games. Illusions played well can be very powerful and overshadow the rest of the game.
You appear to be a role player, but given the chance would you be happy playing the game as a hack and slasher?
Some DM's just don't value non combat solutions and they will not allow you to solve issues without combat, aka your gm.
So you have to decide what's most important to you, walking away from the game by just saying you won't be returning and nothing more, or bite the bullet and make a hack and slasher so you can hang out with friends.
TenaciousJ wrote:
i can understand your problem OP. i would quit. but if you want to stay with your friends its no easy choice
only 1 women with only mens is difficult because some man always will show that they are better and disallow the woman to have success
but to be constructive:
look at the concepts of the other party members
if your game is hack&slash then make a decision
quit
or
copy them, play a blaster, take direct damage spells and direct buffs or best, play a fighter/barbarian
it looks like that you have amazing concept ideas but your group dont like them. they want a simple gameplay with simple effects and simple battles
accept this or quit
JackOfAllTirades wrote:
JackOfAllTirades wrote:
Removed some posts due to baiting, which is against our Code of Conduct.
http://company.wizards.com/conduct
Keep it civil, please.
GideonBlackRose wrote:
My wife plays in the campaign I'm currently running. It's her first time role playing. There have been no issues at all. It never occured to me that there might be.
I don't have much else to add to the topic at hand. If I was at the table described above, a DM not following the core rules and a player playing in bad faith... I'd find another table to play at.
Ok. Probably all of this was already mentioned, but I'm gonna give you several tips in hope to help you.
Considering you have the manuals, I think the best way to start is to look at Conditions, which can be found on page 290.
Then we've gotta look at the spells you're using in Combat, which are the ones causing problems at the table. From what I could read the spells are:
Minor Illusion - Color Spray - Silent Image - Phantasmal Force - Major Image - Phantasmal Killer
Minor Illusion > You cast the sound of a Spider. This a combat scenario, usually in DnD you have some sort of all around vision, there are no sides which you are looking at. If someone hears a spider it's going to assume that there are other enemies on the battleground. So, what you need to do is compare your spells to other similar spells on the game of the same level and try to draw comparisions.
In this case just hearing the sound of something won't make the guy who's fighting an enemy next to him just completely ignore it and go try to find this spider (remember it's only a sound, loud as a scream, low as a whisper).
So you need to compromise in a very clear way. What do you pretend to do with this Spider's hissing?
From Minor Illusion
lf a creature uses its action to examine the sound or image, the creature can determine that it is an illusion with a successful Intelligence (Investigation) check against your spell save De. Ifa creature discerns the illusion for what it is, the illusion becomes faint to the creature.
Solution
You can tell the DM that you would like that unless this enemy takes an action to try disbelief this illusion, he'll believe he's being flanked, so your allies are gaining advantage on the attack action. But, let's be honest, it does seem too powerful for a cantrip, so you can say to him "well, I'm trying to make him believe he's being flanked by this huge spider, but since it's a sound, when he spend his action to disbelief it, he will automatically succed since there is no spider at all next to him".
So, you just made this enemy waste his action using a single cantrip. Remember this is a CANTRIP, not even a level 1 spells.
Silent Image
I'd say it's the same as Minor Illusion, the difference being that it's bigger. But you can have more imagination and do the following.
Remember in this case, that the Image does NO sound. It would be strange for a creature to be next to someone and do no sound at all. Every warrior/PC/anything would realise of this and start suspecting something.
Solution
Considering it's size, 15 ft cube, you could create something big with REACH. Yes, reach will allow you to hit creatures from more than 5 feet, so you could say to the DM "Ok, I create a troll with a weapon with reach that will flank this enemy and give advantage to my rogue so he can sneak attack". Now, if the enemy uses (wastes) an action to disbelief and fails, th big troll is there, the enemy STILL believe he's being sorrounded/flanked, so you're rogue get's Sneak Attack. If your DM says something along the lines "happens the same as with Minor Illusion" you could argue that the troll is far enough for the enemy not to suspect that it's an illusion and the sound from the troll might not reach him (as you can see this is completely believable by anyone in combat, I'm too far away and this guy next to me is doing a lot of sound).
Phantasmal Force
I'd say this is tricky. The only difference with Silent Image that I can see is that it creates sounds, stimuli, everything. Basically it's a spell the does damage. You can create your big troll, flank and do damage, let's say it's more complete than others.
Major Image
I'd say keep this for out of combat scenarios. There is no realy benefit unless you create something solid, for example a WALL. Yes. The spells clearly indicate that you need physical interaction with it to auto disbelief, or an action to try get a save. If you create a wall the enemy CAN'T touch you. You're protected. You could also create a wall in the middle of the battlefield, effectively protecting your allies.
Phantasmal Killer
This spell only does ONE THING. On a failed save, the target becomes frightened for the duration. Frightened is a Condition, which has it's own consequences:
FRIGHTENED
A frightened creature has disadvantage on ability
checks and attack rolls while the source of its fear is
within line of sight.
The creature can't willingly move closer to the source
of its fear,
That's it. Spells do things, and they say what they do. Phatasmal killer is perfectly clear. Frightened condition and 4d10 each turns if it fails a Save, if it succeds spells ends. Now, remember we're talking about a 40d10 maximum damage (4d10 each turn for 10 turns).
You can't argue this spells, it does what it says.
Overal analysis
DnD is usually a game of rules and conditions and combat. So, instead of saying what you do in a fluff way, do it in a fluff way plus a Combat condition. Whether it's flanking, a Condition, or something. This way you make the job easier for the DM and you get more out of your Illusion Spells.
All the info that I've given you regarding spells it's EXTREMELY reasonable, and if you talk it with your DM I think he will agree with you.
This isn't directed at the OP -- or at least, it's not directed only at her. It applies equally to the DM and to many posters in this thread.
It never ceases to amaze me how apocalyptic people become over D&D. It's a game, a hobby. At the end of the day, if the DM can't handle refereeing an illusionist. roll up an enchanter or a conjurer, or whatever, and have fun. If you're a golfer and one of your buddies hates your favorite course, no big deal -- you play at a course you like less. If your buddy always brings cheap beer, you drink the lousy beer and make a running joke out of it. You should prioritize your D&D character even less than the quality of free beer. I can almost guarantee that when you're on your deathbed tallying up your accomplishments in life, "I took a stand and quit that D&D game with my friends because my illusionist was treated unfairly" won't make the list.
Have fun with your friends. Be a good friend and forgive their shortcomings. Your D&D character is not important.
BernieSandersFanGirl wrote:
Finieous wrote:
The problem here is not one of subjective interpretations. It's that neither you nor the DM have read the rules properly.
BernieSandersFanGirl wrote:
BernieSandersFanGirl wrote:
Slagger_the_Chuul wrote:
Finieous wrote:
Hahaha! Genius.
Finieous wrote:
Look at other spells of the same level as the illusion you are casting and try to aim for similar levels of effect. Do not expect a 1st level Silent Image (for example) to frighten off all the enemies as if it was a 3rd level Fear spell.
To reference Noon above (without the hyperbole) don't try to negate the encounters, try to contribute to them.
If that more modest ambition is denied, then yeah. Switch characters. It's easier to find a different character that you still enjoy than it is to retrain an obstinate DM.
One quick note, while most of what Strill wrote is bang-on, he did make one little mistake:
Strill wrote: