Hello everyone,
So Ive been playing a battle master fighter and a few thoguhts popped into my head. The first is how the maunever's saving throws are determined. A battle master can use Strength or Dexerity to set the DC for his manuever saving throws, however the opponenet must alwasy make a strength saving throw. If I had set my DC with dex shouldn't the creature have to make a dex saving throw?
Or should it follow the rules of a contest? For example, a fighter uses a shove action (athletics) and the defender can make an athletics or an acrobatics to counter. Therefore should a battle master choose which save he wishes to impose regardless of the stat that set the manuever? For example, I use the tripping maunever, and say I want the opponenet to make a dex saving throw rather than a strength one, even thought I set my maunever DC with strength.
On a side note, do you think it that a battle master should be able to use manuever's without dice? I wouldnt get the superiority dice to damage but I could still perform the manuever as a normal attack. The reason I am thinking this is becasue I have to first hit the creature with an attack roll, and then if its a hit, I have to hope it doesnt make a saving throw in order to do something rather mundane (like tripping). Even spells which have much more potent affects usually only have to make an attack roll or a saving throw, not both (there are exceptions but still). This would allow the fighter to have some tatical options each round without being so horribly limited.
mr.troutz wrote:
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
oh sorry taht formatting was really weird, let me try that again xD
You said "No. The save DC determination is the way it is so that anyone wanting to play an agile fencer type isn't required to choose between investing more in Strength than they want to or having low save DC despite being an excellent fencer, or vice versa. The decision is one made for the good of gameplay, rather than some kind of reality emulation."
My reply: Sorry im not sure I understand, maybe I didnt phrase my writting very well. The agile fencer would use DEx instead of str to set the DC of the manuever (as a battle amster could set the DC with either str or dex), but would impose a dex saving throw rather than a strength saving throw on the manuever because he used dex, where as the strength battle master would impose a strength saving throw. For example a duelsit migh try to disarm someone with a quick flick of their wrist (dex saving throw) rather than try to knock the weapon out of their hands (str save) like the greatsword fighter.
You said: " No. At least not completely.
The point of battle master maneuvers is that characters without them cannot both deal damage with a weapon attack and generate the special result - so a battle master is already getting significant bonus even if they have to use normal shove/disarm/etc. rules when they run out of dice to spend.
And while it might seem like not getting the bonus damage is a trade off, that's not actually the case since the bonus damage is only included to make sure that using a manuever never feels like nothing was gained - you always at least add some bonus damage, even if the target passes their saving throw against the special effect.
Of course, all of this is coming from the point of view of a DM that actually lets characters without maneuvers attempt the majority of the stuff that maneuvers can do, just without also being an attack that deals damage - if you have a DM that doesn't run things that way, my opinions on the matter would have to be changed to "get a better DM."
My reply: Im always happy to hear an opion, especially a good DM, 
My beef witht the battle master was that I felt that the mauneverse where harder to pull off than other things (like spells or smites) and had less reward and less resources to fuel them.
Sorry im so bad at forums stuff, im a newb forgive me xD
mr.troutz wrote:
ah I see what you mean. Thanks for your input, I realize now that I wasnt really looking at the whole spectrum of the change xD That makes so much sense when you think about switching the saving throws, that would be a little strong. I also see what you mean with the battle dice recharging. ill jsut have to force my caster friends to do rope trick for short rests lol. Thanks again