What is the composition of the smallest optimized party that could take down a Tarrasque?
Wizard(s) of at least 5th level all with Acid Splash, flying 60 feet above the Tarrasque. Game, set and match.
*runs*
2x Lore Bard 11/fighter 2, (20 cha, 14 dex) with, bless, contagion, otto's irristable dance, and cloud of daggers.
Bard B casts bless.
Use cutting words to make sure he doesn't go first. (0-1d10 vs 4+1d4) = 96.96% chance to go first,
Bard A
Cast otto's irristable dance.
Action surge + contagion (slimy doom). 1d20(advantage)+10+1d10(insperation)+1d4(bless) vs 25 AC = 88.63% chance.
Bard B casts Cloud of Daggers as his level 6 slot = 30 damage per turn.
30 * 3 turns = 90 (2 legendary saves).
They also mock the terrasque (3d4 * .81 = 6.075) * 6 = 36.45 (126.45)
Bard A casts contagion again.
30 * 4 turns = 120 (246.45) (3rd legendary save).
More mockery = 6.075 * 7 = 42.525 (288.975)
Bard B cast contagion.
30 * 5 turns = 150 (438.975)
More mockery = 6.075 * 9 = 54.675 (493.65)
Bard B cast contagion again.
30*5 turns = 150 (643.65)
More mockery = 6.075 * 9 = 54.675 (698.325)
Mocked to death while dancing on pins.
Blah... 1 minute time limit on dance and cloud of daggers...
Still, you got 6*2 fireballs... dealing an extra 199.26 damage.
And you can switch to web to keep him imobilized (just cast fireball and daggers in the air). You still have advantage for an extra turn once he saves from contagion.
Someone with True Polymorph, sleep/Charm, and you with magic Jar.
Get your buddy to Polymorph the Tarrasque into a goblin (using other spells first to bypass its Legendary Resistance if needed) and concentrate.
Use Sleep or Charm on the Goblin
Use the body-swap technique in Magic Jar to enter the goblin's body (leaving the Tarrasque's soul in the jar)
Have your buddy stop concentrating
You are now a tarrasque (who still retains his mental scores and spellcasting abilities!)
What do I win?
(yes yes, I know you have to survive 2 rounds or so while you use Contagion or Disintegrates or whatever on him to get his Legendary Resistance down...)
Hmm...
DC 12 wisdom save + advantage = 36% chance *8 = 2.88 failures.
Bard 14
Round 1
Summon 8 pixies.
Have them all cast polymorph sheep. (burn though his legendary resistances).
Round 2
Summon 8 pixies
Have them all cast polymorph sheep.
Have them cast sleep, or cast it yourself.
Round 3
Cast disintigrate. Auto-fail. It is reduced to 0 hit points and is turned to dust.
Maybe... i'll have to get someone to double check the wording.
mellored wrote:
Timborama wrote:
Otto's Irresistable Dance doesn't work. The Tarrasque is immune to charm.
Fireballs don't work. The Tarrasque is immune to fire.
Polymorph/disintegrate doesn't work necessarily since disintegrate will disintegrate the Tarrasque/sheep only if it drops to 0 hp. But once it hits 0 hp, the DM can just say it reverts to its original form and would be too large to be completely disintegrated... you'd disintegrate a 10 cubic ft space out of the Tarrasque... that'll just piss it off.
Similarly if you polymorph the Tarrasque into a sheep and cast power word Kill, you kill the sheep. Upon death it reverts to its original form with the hp it had prior to the transformation. Killing the sheep just dispels the polymorph effectively.
Essentially death can only occur at 0 hp. The moment it reverts to its original form, it regains hp and ceases being "dead". Unlike trying to heal a dead character, the spell specifically says it returns to its original form with the hp it possessed prior to the polymorph spell. So based on the wording, the shapeshifting from a sheep back to the Tarrasque brings it back from the dead.
One could argue that the Tarrasque is immune to cloud of daggers... the cloud is made up of daggers. Nonmagical daggers... the Tarrasque is immune to nonmagical weapons. Sure, magic conjured the daggers and has them flying around, but the daggers themselves are never said to be magical.
A polymorph/magic jar combo is interesting, but it requires a failed wisdom save to polymorph the Tarrasque... it has advantage on all spells, and a +9 to save against it. And that's without having to use its legendary save.
Contagion is decent against the Tarrasque if you can get close enough to touch it and actually make contact. It has an AC of 25 and reach which means it gets an opportunity attack as the caster moves close enough to touch attack it. Then it gets +10 to con saves against the spell, and has advantage on spells and spell effects so even with slimy doom, isn't at disadvantage... it just loses its advantage on saves but still has a +10 to its con saves. 3 rounds later it's good. Of course, contagion can allow you to stun the Tarrasque for a few rounds if you can hit it first with the spell, and then with follow up attacks.
Anything I got wrong?
Is there any way to conjure a non-magical item? If there isn't, one could assume the cloud of daggers is magical daggers. Minor Conjuration from a Conjuration spec'd wizard always summons a magical item. Cloud of Daggers doesn't not require daggers to cast. They're magic daggers.
The Tarrasque can move 40 feet + 40 feet (dash) + 20 feet (legendary action), meaning anyone who can move 101+ feet in a turn AND attack can should be able to kill it, right? Phantom Steed + Haste should do the trick. Using a magic Longbow and kite it/chase it to death. Note: The Tarrasque can take a legendary action at the end of every other creatures turn (max 3) so if you try this tactic with more than one player you have to add 20 feet of movement per player. Phantom Steed + Haste should get you up to 200 feet movement and the Tarrasque should cap at 140 feet.
slumgum wrote:
Why can't you cast Haste on the steed? Haste says willing creature, and I don't see anything in the Phantom Steed spell description that says it cannot be hasted. But as you have found out, there are other ways to surpass the Tarrasque's speed even without that combo.
If Dash increases fly speed then an Arcane Trickster rogue could cast Fly, which would give 60 feet move, 120 with dash, and avoid obstacles. If you're flying you really just need to match it's speed so it cannot outrun you.
Bloodscythe wrote:
Timborama wrote:
I mean if you consider Fey to be magical then yes if you summon a wolf or bear it is a magical animal. The spell description says you summon "fey spirits that take the form of beasts".
slumgum wrote:
Bloodscythe wrote:
Yunru wrote:
Bloodscythe wrote:
slumgum wrote:
Ok... so polymorph -> disintigrate or power word kill doesn't work.
There's a "if the creature dies" clause on polymorph that i missed.
So anyways...
Conjure Woodland Beings -> Pixies -> Polymorph (auto-save).
Conjure Woodland Beings -> Pixies -> Polymorph (low AC, low Con creature) -> Sleep.
Contagion (slimy doom).
Wait 3-4 turns for it to fail 3 times, so it sticks.
Web
Sacred Flame, which it automaticly fails, and which stuns it. So it will automaticly fail the next lance of faith, and can't escape the web.
3d8 * 3 = 13.5
676 / 13.5 = 50.074074074074074074074074074074
or 51 rounds.
Web lasts 60 rounds.
Druid or lore bard 9, with magic initiate.
Edit: Well, i just realized i misread stun... you can't move. So yea, web's not needed and you can speed things with a cloud of daggers.
Phantom Steed spell description: "A Large quasi-real, horselike creature appears on the ground in an unoccupied space of your choice within range. You decide the creature's appearance,"
Sound's like it's a creature.
slumgum wrote:
mellored wrote:
Bloodscythe wrote:
A magic-user (a Bard, as suggested above?) summons a horde of allies with a save-out-of-me spell each. They use up all its Autosaves. Somebody read a Scroll of Hold Monster to the Tarrasque. Several Warlocks hex Tarrasques' CON down to nothing (if Hexes stack). Then Monk17 hits with Quivering Palm. Initiate the save-or-die roll.
Have the Bard write his Lifetime Masterwork about your deed - THIS is the most important part.
Now I should go get a rulebook and see if this is even remotely workable. 
BRJN wrote:
Hit it with two Contagions then once it's used it's auto-saves hit it with Quivering Palm until it gets the message.
Yunru wrote:
double slimey doom of course :P
Bloodscythe wrote:
Yunru wrote:
Yunru wrote:
haha, am I the only one playing devil's advocate?
This thread does present a very interesting question: If you infect a sheep or goblin or whatever with slimy doom and it reverts back to the Tarrasque, does the disease transfer to the new form?
If I bless the sheep and it reverts to the Tarrasque, does bless transfer?
Bloodscythe wrote:
Yunru wrote:
A lucky monk in a group of divination wizards.
mellored wrote:
Yunru wrote:
mellored wrote:
Bloodscythe wrote:
Lindonius wrote:
mellored wrote:
Timborama wrote:
mellored wrote:
TheLastDunedain wrote:
Bloodscythe wrote:
Hmmm..
Druid 7, summons 8 pixies, 6 of which cast fly on the wizard one after another. (1 hour). One of the pixies polymorphs the druid into something that can fly away.
Elf Wizard 4 with magic weapon (1 hour) on a longbow and sharp shooter. Shooting from a 600 feet in the air.
2 prof + 3 Dex + 1 magic weapon = 6. So you only hit on a 19 or 20....
1d8+4 * 0.05
+ 2d8+4 * 0.05
= 1.075 DPR
675 / 1.075 = 628 rounds = 62.8 minutes.
Just short...
Last pixie polymorphs elf wizard into a whale, who falls 600' and crushes the terrasque. (i'm assuming it's at leat 5 damage).
(Alternitivly, the wizard casts feather fall, and has a few extra round).
Jay_Ibero_911 wrote:
Bloodscythe wrote:
mellored wrote:
The only thing i found was a mention to "arrow of dragon slaying".
But that still doesn't mean anything.
Soo....
The terrasque isn't immune to non-magical arrows.
Only "from non-magical weapons."
An attack from a magical bow would be fine.
TheLastDunedain wrote:
mellored wrote:
Bloodscythe wrote:
Actually, whether or not a Magic Bow confers it's magic on the ammunition is irrelevant, because ammunition are not weapons. So either the tarrasque is not immune to non-magical arrows at all because they are not weapons regardless of weapon fired from, or the tarrasque is not immune to non-magical arrows if fired from a magical weapon because it is damage from the weapon.
Also, slight improvement on this:
mellored wrote:
Jay_Ibero_911 wrote:
TheLastDunedain wrote:
slumgum wrote:
mellored wrote:
Bloodscythe wrote:
4 level 20 divination wizards, with 4 simulacrons.
Level 9 disintigrate.
+0 (advantage), vs DC 19 = 81% chance to hit.
Use divination to force falues.
Round 1:
10d6+40+9d6 = 106.5
* 5 rays (3 auto-saves) = 532.5..
Hmm... a little short.
Oh well, it's easy to finish him on round 2. Even if he kills a wizard or 2.
Though with 2 rounds, you can drop down to level 15 wizards, possibly 13.
Alternitivly, cast 8 true polymorphs. You should be able to force 10.8 failures, which is enough even if you count advantage (5.4 foced failues - 3 auto-saves = 2 forced failures left).
But then it depends on your definition as to weather you've "defeated" him, or need to wait an hour.
mellored wrote:
BRJN wrote:
While being watched from afar by the wizards, the Monk runs up and smacks ol' Tarry with Quivering Palm. One of the wizards makes Tarry fail the save, forcing him to use a legendary save. Once they're all gone, you should have one fail left to inflict on Tarry. Net level: 21. Average level: 7.
A Wood Elf Fighter11/Arcane Caster6 with expeditious retreat + sharpshooter + mobility (45ft movement, 135ft with expeditious retreat).
A ton of arrows (Longbow)
A buddy who has cast Magic Weapon and hides out of combat.
Since you're the only other guy in combat, the Tarrasque only gets one legendary action to move. Its movement per round is lower than yours (60ft if it wants to attack, 100ft if it wants to dash).
You have 100 rounds to kill it before expeditious retreat wears off.. you have 45% chance of hit. Not factoring in crit damage or manouver dice damage or whatever, your are looking at average damage per round 21.375. In that time you can do 2137.5 damage to it, excluding one action.
The only chance it has really is if it hides behind things and blocks LOS, but it's pretty big, so...
You could probably do this with only 1 level of arcane caster, but your hit chance would be lower and thus it would take more time. You could also probably replace the arcane caster levels with Rogue instead for the same effect (and add sneak attack damage into the mix). I like an arcane caster 6 though in case you need to cast fly or haste.
DaveDash wrote:
mellored wrote:
I believe everyone is overlooking the most obvious answer... All you need is an extraordinarily large magically animated statue to give the Tarrasque a swift knee to the crotch. Done deal. 
"Genie, I Wish the Tarrasque to ..."
Party size 1: Aladdin (rogue), and the NPC Genie.
Oh yes.. the beloved wish spell. Cures all that ails you.
Did anyone else see the magical ammunition preview in the DMG? I hope it clarifies in the book how magical ammunition interacts with magical weapons that use ammunition... will the +3 to hit and damage of a magical arrow combine with the +3 to hit and attack from a magical longbow? If so, I think DPR kings just became sharpshooting longbow users without much contest.
Bloodscythe wrote:
A particularly brave Barbarian bathes in the blood and guts of a cow. Upon encountering the beast, the Barbarian releases his rage and lets lose the most obscene and ear catching volley of insults this side of the Forgotten Realms. His attention drawn by the insults, and his hunger tempted by the tantalizing scent of fresh meat, the Tarrasque swallows the Barbarian. Using his magical Polearm of Internal Disembowelment, the Barbarian then goes to work, swinging away at the insides of the Tarrasque, doing just enough damage to wear the beast down over time, while also keeping it from spitting him up until the deed is done.
Assuming that the Barbarian has no magical equipment that improves his defenses or restores his health, or temporary HP provided from an extraneous source, and that he's packing the "Tough" feat along with 24 str and con, he'll last 12 turns in there before hitting zero. He's then guaranteed to come back through Relentless Rage once, with a 95% chance of coming back on the turn after that, guaranteeing a 13th turn, and an extremely likely 14th turn after that.
With that in mind, the Barbarian just needs a magical weapon good enough to get around 48 damage per turn on the Tarrasque, assuming it's just him doing the fighting. So long as he stops attacking when he runs the possiblity of hitting 60 damage through crits, he should be fine.
Kiteless wrote:
Kiteless wrote:
jessequentin wrote:
mellored wrote:
jessequentin wrote:
How about.....
Druid with Antilife Shell and Thorn whip?
jessequentin wrote:
Kiteless wrote:
Yunru wrote:
So... No comments on the Druid with AntiLife Shell and Thorn Whip?
Did I actually happen upon a method where a single butt nekkid 9th level Druid holding only a thorny plant stem can take down a Tarrasque?
jessequentin wrote:
mellored wrote:
jessequentin wrote:
mellored wrote:
jessequentin wrote:
mellored wrote:
jessequentin wrote:
mellored wrote:
Woops! Touch spell. So... Shocking grasp, maybe? Takes longer, but...
18th level druids can cast while shaped. So there's that! Make it level 20 and he can cast while shaped, and even if "knocked out" of animal form, the druid can just shift back in!
Timborama wrote:
Yeah... We were trying for the smallest optimized party.
So.... If you allow an Owl Familiar to transfer touch spells using their "flyby"... That'd be a level 1 Wizard with a horse, right? Or did I miss something else?
jessequentin wrote:
mellored wrote:
jessequentin wrote:
I already posted a Ftr11/Rogue2/Caster3 (Woof Elf, Sharpshooter, Mobility) that could kill the big T by himself a couple of pages back.
Doesn't rely on the DM playing the Tarrasque stupid either.
His total movement is such that he can out move the Tarrasque, and his range is such that he can shoot from out of throwing range.
About the only trouble he'd run into is inside a cave or arena.
Edit: An EK8/Rog2 can probably do it for even less levels, but quite some time due to lower attacks and attack bonus.
DaveDash wrote:
jessequentin wrote:
jessequentin wrote:
DaveDash wrote:
jessequentin wrote:
1eejit wrote:
mellored wrote:
jessequentin wrote:
jessequentin wrote:
mellored wrote:
1eejit wrote:
mellored wrote:
I'm not sure the Tarrasque even CAN throw... Looking at the description and the image in the MM, I'm not sure it can grasp with those claws (at least not more than a cat can grasp with its paws). It can grasp with its jaws, but not sure if you'd want to call clenching something in your teeth and releasing it as you toss your head a "thrown attack" in rules terms - at least not without a feat or something. I think the best you can say is maybe it bats at something and hopes it flies in the general direction of the target... Maybe a combo of rolls to do it - maybe a Dex check at DC10 to get it in the general direction and then an attack roll to see if it hits?
jessequentin wrote:
jessequentin wrote:
mellored wrote:
So, just to cover the most comprehensive idea I've seen so far...
Jack the Giant Killer
Woof Elf Fighter 11/Rogue 2
*Strength: 10 (+0)
Dexterity: 18 (+4)
*Constitution: 14 (+2)
Intelligence: 10 (+0)
Wisdom: 16 (+3)
Charisma: 8 (-1)
HP: 182
Speed: 45'
Special: Darkvision, Keen Senses, Fey Ancestry, Trance, Mask of the Wild, Second Wind, Action Surge, Extra Attack (2), Indomitable, Expertise, Sneak Attack, Thieves' Cant, Cunning Action
Proficeiency: All Armor, Shields, Martial Weapons, Longsword, Shortsword, Shortbow and Longbow
Skills: Perception, Athletics, Survival
Fighting Style: Archery
Martial Archetype: Eldritch Knight
Feats: Sharpshooter, Mobility
I'm guessing you might be able to get away with a 7th Level Eldritch Knight. I think the Rogue 2 was just for the extra movement from Cunning Action... But the Eldritch Knight would be able to cast Longstrider to make up for it. You would lose 1 extra attack by only being 7th Level... but you do have 2 possible castings of Magic Weapon - to make it last up to 2 hours.
One thing to note as well using a familiar.
Technically it has its own initiative turn, so it gives the Tarrasque an additional legendary action.
jessequentin wrote:
HeirRaktus wrote:
DaveDash wrote:
HeirRaktus wrote:
jessequentin wrote:
HeirRaktus wrote:
jessequentin wrote:
jessequentin wrote:
HeirRaktus wrote:
HeirRaktus wrote:
HeirRaktus wrote:
HeirRaktus wrote:
I was just curious... the fastest IRL marathon pace is 4:42 per mile. That would translate to 112 ft per 6 seconds. That's a human with no magic. He must be a rogue!
jessequentin wrote:
So, I was just thinking about the method we've come up with to defeat a Tarrasque was to out run it. Is it possible to outrun a Solar? Fly 150 with a legendary action to teleport 120.
HeirRaktus wrote:
HeirRaktus wrote:
mellored wrote:
HeirRaktus wrote:
mellored wrote:
jessequentin wrote:
mellored wrote:
mellored wrote:
Lindonius wrote:
jessequentin wrote:
Lindonius wrote:
You might be able to attack safely with mobile, then retreat (using a melee weapon). With 165ft movement you should be stay out of counter attack range. It'll slow you down though.
As long as you can always move back 85ft, you are fine (and you can still move 110ft and attack). T can move up towards you using a dash, but you can probably move in, attack, then move out. 110ft - 25ft to move in and attack =85ft movement left.
If you used a polearm you're even safer.
Yunru wrote:
I don't see how it works at all. With two diviners and one monk, the tarrasque gets three legendary actions. It can use two legendary actions to chomp, then swallow on its turn. A diviner must be able to see a creature to use their portent on it, and they're blinded when swallowed. They could, of course, have fly cast. I won't get into the argument about what Big T does against flying spellcasters, but it does require their concentration, meaning no buffs for the monk. Even if they use their action to dash when flying, they're 20 feet slower than a fleeing tarrasque with three legendary actions, and can't cast any spells to burn through his legendary resistances. If they don't dash, they'll rapidly lose spell range and LoS.
Alternatively, a single round with the tarrasque in combat range of a 20 Dex, 20 Wis monk will result in an average of 228 damage, even if we ignore possible advantage from prone or restrained (1 bite, 5 claw, 1 horns, 1 tail; 5% chance each of auto miss and crit). This can go as high as 242.9 average damage if the first legendary action is used to make a tail attack that knocks the monk prone. Even with 20 Con, a level 20 monk will have an average of 193.5 hp. Tough boosts that to 233.5. If we assume that the diviners have somehow burned through all of the tarrasque's legendary resistances already, the monk would still be extremely fortunate to survive to their second turn in order to use their action to end quivering palm. Portent could cause the tarrasque to miss one or more attacks, but only a 1 would do, and any portent die used to make an attack miss is one that can't be used to force the tarrasque to fail a save. A monk 17/ fighter 3 could action surge to end the quivering palm in the same turn it's used, but still requires the tarrasque to have used up all of its legendary resistances first.
^ The idea of Monks with Diviners is to nova Big T with quivering palm. Not to stick around for multiple rounds of combat. That's why I argue you'll want 2+ monks to be safe.
Lindonius wrote:
I get the idea, but quivering palm requires you to hit the target in one turn, then use your action in a subsequent turn to force the save. You therefore require a minimum of two turns for the nova to work, even if all of the tarrasque's legendary resistances are already expended. The monk won't survive that long. Of course, more diviners and more monks will improve the chances of success, but that defeats the whole point of this thread.
MurdochMan wrote:
Yunru wrote:
DaveDash wrote:
mellored wrote:
Yunru wrote:
EDIT: Would it be a distribution of some kind? Also: With an AC of 25 and a to-hit of +11 any roll of 14 or higher is useful. So the chance of a useless roll is 1 in 4. Although you still need those four low rolls.
mellored wrote:
Yunru wrote:
I just see it now: The Tarrasque's on a rampage, the lone Monk hires a bunch of diviners.
"What do you want us to do?""Just watch me."
With four diviners you get, on average, 4.2 rolls that ensures a hit against T and 4.8 rolls that ensures the T fails it's saves.
Yunru wrote:
Yunru wrote:
mellored wrote:
MurdochMan wrote:
Yunru wrote:
Or even better yet, attack with the Haste action, Flurry of Blows and then with your normal action kill the sod.
Just so I understand this, with the monk method the goal is to hit him at least 3 times to use stunning fist on each hit, with the diviners force failing the saves forcing T to use up his legendary saves and then the monk applying quivering palm and using the last auto-fail for it?
Jay_Ibero_911 wrote:
That's the idea, yes. The monk can set quivering palm up and make a stunning strike with the same attack, so it only needs three hits.
Yunru: It really depends what you mean by 'big deal'. I'm not arguing with you that the quivering palm plan can't work; it obviously can, with the right use of resources. I'm merely pointing out areas where I feel you've been a bit too optimistic. This plan did start out as a lone monk with two low level diviners.
The mobile, unhasted monk can't run in, make attacks, and then get far enough away from the tarrasque to escape its reach, even if it knocks the tarrasque prone. The tarrasque needs 6 attacks to be confident of killing a 20 Dex, 20 Wis, 16 Con monk, although it still stands a decent chance with 5. A Half-Orc gets relentless endurance, allowing it to survive an additional attack, but the racial bonuses aren't very useful to the monk and you won't be able to take mobile (which I reckon is more useful). This leaves the tarrasque 80 feet of movement from 2 legendary actions and its turn movement; 60 if it has to stand up first. As long as the monk starts its first turn more than 10 feet away from the tarrasque, it can't survive the first round as long as the tarrasque isn't stunned.
I've already stated that I agree that haste would probably change all that. Invisibility not so much; the tarrasque has blindsight out to 120 feet, so it's not really affected. Empty self (lvl 18) might actually be pretty helpful for its resistances, but it does require an action to use.
You do have to account for the use of haste in your party composition. 1 monk and 6 lvl 2 diviners gives the party no possible source for haste. Either you need to bump 1 of the diviners up to lvl 5, or include another caster. The tarrasque killing the haste caster before the monk has a chance to act (the tarrasque beats the monk for initiative about 28% of the time) would cause big problems, but that's preventable if you can find a good place to hide them. I still reckon two levels of fighter for an action surge is probably more useful than mobile and perfect self, and negates the need for haste. You can attack the tarrasque 4 times, use up its legendary resistances, then action surge to end quivering palm and kill the tarrasque.
jessequentin wrote:
Yunru wrote:
Regardless, whack it, stun it, set up vibrations, all with hasted action. Invoke with normal action if it got stunned. Even if it uses it's legendary save it still takes 10d10 damage. If it didn't get stunned, flurry of blows, stun and prone. If it is now stunned, invoke with normal action. If it is still not stunned escape it's range, using your normal action to dash if neccessary, invoke if not. Etc.
MurdochMan wrote:
The 8 saves was in response to jessequentin, so works off the assumption that the tarrasque doesn't use legendary saves against stunning strike. To guarantee success, the hasted monk must make the tarrasque fail four quivering palm saves. This requires a minimum of 4 turns, and the strategy may fall apart if the tarrasque does not also fail a stunning strike on each of those turns. Yes, a mobile, hasted monk can escape the tarrasque's reach, but that doesn't mean all that much unless the tarrasque has already blown its 3 legendary resistances. The tarrasque is under no obligation to chase the creature that just filled its body with strange vibrations, or stand there waiting for it to do the same in the next round. It can run towards any diviners that haven't managed to hide well enough and have a tasty wizard snack. If one of those diviners is the haste caster, that would be absolutely disastrous for the monk. I suppose that it doesn't matter whether the tarrasque is stunned in the fourth round, since it's going to die anyway; that brings the required Con save failures down to 7.
The damage that the tarrasque takes on a successful quivering palm save is really rather irrelevant. 10d10 necrotic damage + 3 unarmed strikes (dex 20) works out to an average of 66.85 damage vs AC 25, 86.5 damage if the diviners can ensure a hit on each attack, and 103 if all three attacks are crits. If the monk chooses not to flurry because it stunned the tarrasque on the first attack, these averages are 58.95, 65.5 & 71. For each round that the monk does this, it spends 3 ki on quivering palm, 1-3 ki on stunning strike, and 0-1 ki on flurry of blows. If we take the highest damage estimates, where all attacks are crits, and calculate average ki expenditure, the monk does 90.2 damage per turn with an average expenditure of 5.56 ki. A level 17 monk can keep this up for 3 turns before running out of ki; a level 20 monk should have enough for a final quivering palm or flurry of blows and two stunning strikes. The tarrasque will still have 400+ hp remaining. Obviously, if it gets that far and there are still low portent rolls remaining, a fourth quivering palm finishes it, but that ignores the tarrasque's hp anyway.
I agree with your point that choosing not to use legendary resistances against stunning strike may be beyond the tarrasque's intelligence. I described such a tactic as "rather prescient of an Int 3 creature". But hey, we're discussing optimization here, and such behaviour by the tarrasque is completely within the rules of the game. Any player strategy ought to account for it.
Scrying is a 5th level spell, requiring lvl 9+. Even with 6 diviners, their chances of scrying on the tarrasque itself are bad, but I assume they'd be scrying on the monk instead so get an automatic success. Telescopes only work if the diviners have unbroken LoS to the fight. Why is that assumed?
At least one of the wizards must be within 30 feet of the monk at the start of the fight in order to cast haste. If this wizard's concentration is broken, it would seriously damage the monk's chances, losing the effects of haste and causing it to spend a turn where it can't move or take actions.
EDIT: looking at the adventuring gear list, the spyglass only doubles the magnification of an object. This only doubles the range at which the diviners can watch the fight.
MurdochMan wrote:
You could also look through a familiar's eyes. A barbarian's Aspect of the Beast says the eyesight of an eagle can see up to a mile away with no difficulty, able to see fine details as if looking at something no more than 100 ft away. I'd expect a hawk's eyesight would be similar.
Rope trick would work, as long as the diviners can predict where the tarrasque is going to show up ahead of time. If their window's at the wrong angle, they fail. Can a caster concentrate on a spell effect outside of the extradimensional space whilst they're inside? The rules aren't very clear. If not, the haste caster is kinda screwed. At least one caster also needs to be lvl 3+ to cast rope trick, although the haste caster could also be the rope trick caster.
Levitation and fly to set up a mid-air rope trick make things more difficult for the haste caster. They can't cast haste and levitate/ fly at the same time, as all three spells rely on concentration. I suppose that one caster could descend on the rope, then cast levitate on the haste caster directly beneath them. This does require that one of the other diviners is lvl 3+. With an ascend/ descend speed of 20 feet, they haste caster may still be at risk of attack from the tarrasque for a couple of turns, depending on the height of the rope trick. This also reduces the maximum distance of the rope trick from the tarrasque, which means it could more easily run out of sight of the diviners.
Seeing through a familiar's eyes does require that the familiar is within 100 feet, but yes, the hawk could definitely be helpful in that regard. Again, though, it's not much help to the haste caster.
Yunru wrote:
Yunru wrote:
Yunru wrote:
Yunru wrote:
Yunru wrote:
The tarrasque's advantage vs. "spells and other magical effects" may cancel out the disadvantage from Slimy Doom, giving the tarrasque a 60-70% chance of making each save, depending on the caster's level. Whether or not the tarrasque gets its magic resistance on these saves is up to interpretation, though, and the stunning effect for 2+ turns (assuming the disease goes into effect immediately) is still very useful.
EDIT: I suppose the tarrasque would be getting disadvantage on saves vs. quivering palm, too, which would be very useful if your diviners hadn't managed to roll enough auto-fails.
In order to cast contagion through a familiar, you'd need a bard of lvl 10+ which takes find familiar and contagion as magical secrets, as far as I can tell. A druid or cleric of 9+ could cast it themselves. I think they're the only classes who can cast it, but I may be wrong.
EDIT: Oh, I suppose a cleric or druid could take a level of wizard to get find familiar, too. They could take two levels to become a diviner.
The only major problem I can find with the idea of casting contagion through a hawk familiar (with diviners to ensure a hit) is that the familiar moves on its own initiative count, but casts the spell in the caster's turn. If the tarrasque is between the familiar and the caster in the initiative count, it can easily take the familiar out when it comes into range but before there's a chance to deliver the spell. A surprise attack would stand a decent chance, given the tarrasque's poor passive Perception. Otherwise, you'd ideally want multiple casters with familiars in order to ensure success.
Yunru wrote:
To that end: a level 0 non-adventurer. (S)He does nothing to stop the tarrasque, knowing that the end of existance will do it for him/her. (S)He is nothing if not patient.
Greg Bilsland on the Extra Life extra session played Dec. 1 ruled that Stunning Strike was a "magical effect" due to Ki being described as a "magical energy" in the PHB. Guess that's an extra wrinkle to deal with when thinking about the Monk vs. Tarrasque.
Are all the class features of Monk disabled in an antimagic field then, since everything they do is drawn from Ki, and Ki = magic?
Nevvur wrote:
Yunru wrote: