Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 eprebys Dec 01, 2014 13:35:05	I want some help optimizing a half-elf wild magic sorcerer in a 5th level party with: 2 elven sword and board paladin tanks. 1 elven rogue that deals lots of damage. 1 half-elf buffing bard. (I'd love help on the bard too, though I think I have a basic feel for it. Lots of healing and forcing OAs with Dissonant Whispers. Not sure what two 3rd level spells to take?)   The DM is likely to push lots of wild magic surges. I want to have fun with the character and I am not overly concerned with choosing optimal game play at the expense of story. That said, I want the sorcerer to hold his own in fights.   I guess I'm asking two questions:   1. What mindset do I get in to play the wild magic sorcerer? Am I going to put a bunch of enemies to sleep so the rogue/paladins can trash on them? Am I going to try and be up with the paladins, take some of the damage and use a crossbow expert feat and war caster to get OAs from the bard and deliver a lot of damage?   2. What spells/feats/ability_score_balance/etc do I choose? He is not a max DPR kind of character but he doesn't really buff other characters either. I think he'll be the only character with area affects, so I see him focusing on that more than martial stuff.   Thanks for any advice!   Here is my current spell choices: Cantrips: Acid Splash, Fire Bolt, Friends, Ray of Frost, Shocking Grasp Level 1: Shield, Thunderwave Level 2: Cloud of Daggers (to encourage OAs), Web Level 3: Fireball, Haste   The level 1 and level 2 spells are the hardest to choose. Am I way off?
#2 Yunru Dec 01, 2014 15:11:53	Close combat means even potentially bad spells (fireball on self) can be good. Having someone dip two levels into Wizard for Divination Portent could also be handy. Also if you're going Wild Sorcerer that is going to be your entire shtick, you want to maximise the number of spells cast per turn, otherwise you're probably better of Dragon.
#3 WizardV Dec 01, 2014 18:13:47	If you want to optimize getting into melee for the OA's you're going to want to go Dragon for the AC and you may be better off dipping 2 into warlock. The warlock levels provide eldritch blast with more damage and the force elemental type, more spells known which sorcs are hurting for, a spare invocation (there are many good ones), and some short rest spell slots. It costs you fireball and probably haste. At 5 this would give you 2d10+6 damage on your OA with probably 14-15 AC. This optimizes your at-will DPR. You should grab shield, you'll need it. If you don't go warlock you'll have 2d10 instead+3 from fire bolt with dragon, but this also enables getting fire resistance and fireballing self. Not made for party synergy but it's cute.   Optimizing the Wild Magic sorc for your party, your party is lacking AE punch, has strong melee to benefit from buffs, and may need some disable if your bard is focusing on healing. Sleep hasn't lost all its punch yet by lvl 5, especially up leveled, and will work against hordes mixed in with your melee line which is a great bonus. Because you have a strong melee line consider taking a good concentration buff spell like enlarge or haste and twinning it. Your party will love you. You probably don't need to double down on single target damage with scorching ray.   Here's what I'd pick for my 6 spells: Shield Mage Armor Sleep Burning Hands Haste Fireball   Use Twinned Haste for the level 3 slots unless a perfect fireball opportunity presents itself. Mostly use sleep and burning hands for your AE needs at level 2 slot. Use your level 1 slots for shield. Single target with fire bolt, and count your damage from haste to make you happy that you're outdamaging the rogue.   Of your 5 sorcery points, spend 3 on twinned haste, spend 2 on quickening something to double dip once or sac a 1 slot to twinned haste again.   Depending on how good your paladin sword and boards are at defending you (and maybe cutting words) you might need to take another defensive spell like invisibility instead of burning hands. Depending on how good your bard is at control you may want to take phantasmal force. Int saves are one of the lowest in the game per CR; and this is the only spell to capitalize on that before level 13.
#4 eprebys Dec 01, 2014 20:22:39	Sweet, thanks!   Why Burning Hands over Thunderwave or Magic Missile?   Why Sleep over Hold Person, Web or Blindness/Deafness?   Speaking of the Bard, I am playing the Bard as well (We have 3 humans + DM running the 5 characters). The bard is a lore bard with high DEX and CHA, definitely intended to be a controller.   His spells:   Cantrips: Mage Hand, Minor Illusion, Vicious Mockery Level 1: Dissonant Whispers, Tasha's Hideous Laughter, Faerie Fire Level 2: Blindness/Deafness, Enhance Ability, Heat Metal Level 3: Fear, Leomunds Tiny Hut   Any advice? Is that enough control? What about healing? Should the Bard multiclass?
#5 WizardV Dec 02, 2014 2:10:38	eprebys wrote:
#6 Yunru Dec 02, 2014 2:20:22	Wild Magic. As such you should design around being close to the enemies so that Fire-on-me becomes advantageous rather than a hinderance. As such your spells should focus on this. You'll want Haste and Mage Armor, and you'll want to be Quickening as many spells as possible. While Haste is normally a good idea, you should consider whether you'll be able to maintain concentration. If yes take it and Twin it. Also consider two levels in Warlock for rechargable Spell Slots to turn into Sorcery Points and the Invocation that let's you cast Mage Armor at will without using a slot.
#7 Mephi1234 Dec 02, 2014 8:45:22	Are sorcerers really that bad off that they need to steal some other class' toys?   Admittedly, I'm biased towards the warlock, but I just don't get why people are so agog over dipping warlock.   There's a lot you're giving up there.
#8 Yunru Dec 02, 2014 9:09:17	Because it's not a lot for a sorcerer. Short Rest Spell Slots means you effectively get your capstone early, all your stats align, hex is awesome, eldritch blast is the single most powerful cantrip and, most importantly for a Wild Sorcerer the ability to repeatedly cast a non-cantrip spell without using a slot. In return you give up... nothing, except you push back your spell level progression a bit.
#9 Noctaem Dec 02, 2014 9:10:54	Mephi1234 wrote:
#10 Mephi1234 Dec 02, 2014 13:12:48	Noctaem wrote:
#11 WizardV Dec 02, 2014 14:55:37	In this case I suggested it iff he wanted to optimize dissodant whispers OA. Yunru's suggestions are the case for a general wild magic sorc, I was trying to take into account optimizing for this party. Given 2 solid melee characters, to haste, and protection, cutting words, and shield to protect haste I think it's the strongest play. Far more extra damage per sorcerer point than a quickened spell.
#12 Ashrym Dec 02, 2014 17:43:08	Players recommend 2 levels of warlock on a sorcerer because it's an easy choice for an at-will damage option when agonizing blast is applied to each blast instead of once to each target so that it's 4d10+20 instead of 4d10+5 like firebolt, for example. That kind of boost is almost double damage just in that ruling and more than the lost levels. Being able to quicken it and opportunity attack with it using war caster makes it huge in a sorcerer's arsenal. Regarding the bard, give up Tasha's for heroism or a cure spell, hypnotic pattern is a good third level spell, and my advice is to keep blindness / deafness. It allows targeting a different save than faerie fire, can be cast into combat where allies might be, includes defensive benefits, and doesn't require concentration which makes it very useful.
#13 Gruff_Ironfist Dec 02, 2014 18:44:57	WizardV wrote:
#14 Mephi1234 Dec 02, 2014 19:00:44	Ashrym wrote:
#15 WizardV Dec 02, 2014 19:46:32	Gruff_Ironfist wrote:
(Reply to #14) Ashrym	Mephi1234 wrote:
#17 mellored Dec 03, 2014 9:19:46	Paladins are very good for wild sorcerer's.  Since they tend to be magic resistant and can even help you resist your own surges.   And i would say no to warlock.  Unless you get alot of short rests, you'll end up with less spells slot/points then you would straight sorcerer.
#18 Undrhil Dec 03, 2014 20:07:41	My wild mage started as a Wizard and went to level 2 to get School of Divination.  Then, took sorcerer 1 for Wild Magic (and that's all the sorcerer levels I need for it!), taking shield and Magic missile for his two Sorcerer spells.  He's going to take three levels of Fighter for Second Wind, Action Surge, and Eldritch Knight, and will take all the rest of his levels as Wizard.  He will end up as a Level 17 caster, so no loss of slots, but he won't get any level 9 spells, unfortunately.   So, his big schtick is getting things to try to hit him so he can cast shield and potentially trigger a Wild Surge.  Also, he'll throw Magic Missile out there to try to trigger a Wild Surge.  He's got the Lucky Feat, which is nice for those d20 rolls for skills.  And he triggers Tides of Chaos for Initiative at the start of combats.  The only problem I have with the wild magic system is DM dependence.  I play in Adventurer's League, and we never start on time, so we are always rushed to get through a mod and the DM usually just brushes aside my notice that I can trigger a WIld Surge or a roll on the percentile table.   Using Tides of Chaos, I can understand the DM not letting me trigger it, since that's an ability that is really powerful, being able to give myself advantage on an attack, ability check, or skill check.  However, the Wild Surge is a 1 in 20 chance of triggering wild magic.  I am going to just start rolling the d20 on my own and let the DM know that I can roll on the wild surge table if it comes up.  If I have Tide of Chaos up, all I can do is just make sure the DM knows it's there.   Heck, I've even had the DM say he was going to roll a percentile to see if I can trigger the Wild Surge from Tides of Chaos.  Ridiculous.   tl,dr: Don't play a wild mage if you are going to rely on using the wild surges because your DM can be a dick and never let you use it.
#19 TheTalentedHack Mar 05, 2015 11:39:49	While shield always seems nice to offset your squishyness I have twice killed myself with a buff and wildmagic, once even bobbytrapping my corpse preventing a res in a 4e game. I recommend looking for some resistance to elemental effects and then investing in way to get out of trouble that wont set off a surge... prob look for a feat to help with this. Wish I could be more help