Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 mictrepanier Jan 11, 2015 13:07:55	I find  pact of the tome weaker than the 2 others, since it gives extra cantrips, but no higher level spells. Fine, it gives a full feat for the price of an invocation later, but it is quite weak. I think we should be allowed to swap a cantrip for an higher level spell later, example: an invocation spell without prerequisites like mage armor, at 6th level as a wild guess (to free an invocation slot). Your comment ?
#2 Ashrym Jan 11, 2015 13:23:27	mictrepanier wrote:
(Reply to #2) mictrepanier	Ashrym wrote:
#4 Yunru Jan 11, 2015 13:58:52	No they don't. Thirsting Blade and Extra Attack don't stack.
#5 mictrepanier Jan 11, 2015 14:12:06	True PHB p164. Yunru what is your opinion on my rule change ?   Pact of the Tome   You can forfeit any one cantrip provided by the pact and change it for a spell-like invocation 5 levels after minimum prerequisite allows it.
#6 BrunsenBrurner Jan 11, 2015 15:08:03	I have to agree with Ashrym. Pact of the Blade can be slightly better in some combat situations, but requires a great deal of investment. Pact of the Chain has good utility in the form of its Familiar, but I disagree that it's more useful than Pact of the Tome. Book of Ancient Secrets is much better than you give it credit for. Ritual Caster gives you access to a single class's rituals, whereas the Invocation gives you access to every ritual spell in the game.   Pact of the Tome actually allows you to mimic Blade and Chain to a lesser degree, by allowing you to take the Shillelagh cantrip, and the Find Familiar ritual, giving it a good deal of versatility.   In fact, unless you have a very important reason to go Blade or Chain, I think Pact of the Tome is the best option for most Warlocks.
#7 BestNorthernDope Jan 11, 2015 15:35:21	I find that Pact of Tome is the better of the three pacts. Perhaps not in combat as it only provides cantrips there, but the vast utility the invocation 'Book of Ancient Secrets' brings easily outweighs the other pacts. Again, just my opinion. Also, some rituals can be of use in combat, if you know well ahead of time of said combat. 'Silence', for example.   Also, don't forget 'Guidance'. That is one silly little cantrip, and it can be yours with Pact of the Tome.
#8 mictrepanier Jan 11, 2015 16:08:49	BrunsenBrurner wrote:
#9 mictrepanier Jan 11, 2015 16:16:39	BestNorthernDope wrote:
#10 Stormborn20 Jan 11, 2015 17:18:44	mictrepanier wrote:
#11 Ashrym Jan 11, 2015 21:03:10	Warlocks already have invocations that replicate spells at will. The cantrips coming from any class diversifies combat cantrip options for the secondary effects and some versatile options faster than any cantrip using class. The same with rituals from any class. This is a lot of utility added to the class. It doesn't take the investment of the blade pact and has more general options than the chain pact. Most of the chain pact familiar benefits are covered by the ritual ability in a familiar for the tome pact, or get replaced by invocations that replicate similar abilities at will, like arcane eye. The benefit of chain pact is range and not needing arcane eye. Upgrades to tome per the OP suggestion is too much in addition to unnecessary.
#12 mictrepanier Jan 12, 2015 7:52:24	Stormborn20 wrote:
#13 Yunru Jan 12, 2015 8:03:42	I think that Pact of the Tome will only get more powerful as more spellcaster classes/cantrips are released. Thus I don't feel informed enough to say either way.
#14 durntaur Jan 12, 2015 9:47:54	BrunsenBrurner wrote: