| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
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| #1MumpsyNov 01, 2014 8:19:55 | Level 1 Paladin or Fighter: As heavily armored as possible (Plate + Shield = 20 AC?) Level 1 Sorc: Learn "Shield" - Reaction after being hit by an attack: +5 bonus to AC.
So, basically, level 2 (assuming you can afford plate armor, which likely won't ever happen at level 2), and jump to 25-AC in response to being hit. I kinda get that Polearm Master is pretty much one of the better ways to tank, but thought this was interesting enough to share.
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| #2YunruNov 01, 2014 8:53:59 | Barbarian 1/Eldritch Knight Fighter with maxed Dex and Con. Has 22AC before using Shield. Although not as early (Level 13 at earliest). |
| #3Corran21Nov 01, 2014 21:29:52 |
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| #4WrithaniNov 01, 2014 22:32:23 | Which is why I really like the idea of a Moon Druid 15/ Bear Totem Barbarian 5. You get access to CR 5 beast forms, self-only Cure Wounds while in beast form, an AC boost equal to your Con modifier (if it is higher than your natural armor. The two do not stack, you choose which to use), an extra attack if your best form doesn't aleady have multi-attack, and damage resistance from raging. Most of the beast forms usually have high HP and low AC, such as the popular bear forms. A slight boost to AC puts you more on par, but still not to the point of "why bother trying to hit it?" Resistance to all but psychic damage from raging takes the edge off the inevitably frequent hits. Creature without multiattack benefit even more IMO with lv 5 Barbarian MC because extra attack applies to their single attack. A druid 6/ barbarian 5 in giant elk form can use one attack to shove the target prone (with advantage on your strength check if you're raging), then use its hooves to trample it to a blood pulp. No need to use its charge feature. It's a little MAD, since you will need str 13 to MC barbarian, which is usually a major druid dump stat. You will need to max Wis for your spell saves, and I would still try to raise Con for concentration and AC outside of beast form, but I think it is well worth it. |
| #5melloredNov 01, 2014 22:36:39 | Monk 14/paladin 6. 21 ac, +11 to all saving throws, dodge as a bonus action. |
| (Reply to #5)Writhani |
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| #7PsikerlordNov 02, 2014 1:32:10 | The defensive duelist feat gives a massive boost to AC just when you need it, and works with rapier or shortsword. |
| (Reply to #3)FrogReaver |
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| #9Jay_Ibero_911Nov 02, 2014 5:00:55 | @FrogReaver, as far as determining threat, after the first round it should be pretty obvious to the monsters which PC's are the most dangerous. As far as determining difficulty to hit, it's a natural assumption (that is supported by the game mechanics), that characters in heavy armor (expecially with a shield) are going to be tougher targets to hit than those in lighter armor under most circumstances. 20 Dex +studded leather is always going to be less AC than plate, and medium armor can only catch up to heavy with a feat. So it is a perfectly reasonable assumption for creatures to wish to ignore the walking sheet metal in favor of more vulnerable looking targets, at least until the walking sheet metal can provide some incentive NOT to ignore him. |
| (Reply to #9)FrogReaver |
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| #11Jay_Ibero_911Nov 02, 2014 13:53:26 |
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| (Reply to #11)FrogReaver | Moo I have 2 pc's.
one is a level 20 fighter with a sword and shield max str and con. The other is a level 20 barbarian max dex and con with a shortsword and a shield.
Barb has 22 base ac (7 con mod 5 dex mod) and 24 with the shield. Fighter in plate has 20 ac with a shield.
Your intelligent monster would be attacking the barbarian thinking he's squishier when he isn't and he would be taking twice as much for from the much squishier fighter.
The monster could also think the barbarian was better at damage if the fighter misses while the barb gets lucky and hits. Thus reinforcing for the intelligent monster he's attacking the squishy damage dealer when he's not.
Are u sure u want to keep those assumptions about smart monsters always going for the least armored guy?
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| #13Jay_Ibero_911Nov 02, 2014 14:30:05 |
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| #14HeirRaktusNov 02, 2014 14:38:40 | I'm currently playing a Human (Variant) Cleric 1/Wizard 4. I wear plate, carry a shield in one hand and nothing in the other. I can cast Shield of Faith as a bonus action and Shield as a reaction. |
| (Reply to #13)FrogReaver | Single instance? Not quite lol. But the bigger question is if the fighter missed all his attacks and the barb landed both his why would the intelligent monster think the fighter was the bigger threat at that time?
Also what could possibly cause it to change its assumption that the fighter will be harder to hit? At least until it tries to hit the fighter a few times and finds that to be true.
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| #16YunruNov 02, 2014 14:45:36 | Single instance? Considering a single 1-level dip results in the same AC only any class that can focus on Dex and Con (Fighter, Rogue, etc.) I highly doubt that. |
| (Reply to #16)FrogReaver | Actually 2 less for not having barb capstone ;). But still higher than plate wearing fighters
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| (Reply to #5)Danny_Montanny |
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| #19Corran21Nov 03, 2014 3:13:57 | FrogReaver, while I disagree with most of your points, I do agree with one of them. And that is: ''The DM should not make all intelligent monsters start combat with the best tactics against the players. All intelligent group of monsters should all start with a very good tactical plan against whatever kind of adventuring party they start combat expecting the adventurers to be. But that plan may not actually be the best way to have dealt with the party. If the monsters survive or some escape maybe the next group adapts.''
My counterpoint is that, if there is a character in the group, that besides his good hp also has an incredible AC, which will result in almost all of the monsters' attacks to fail, then a GM is very likely to have the monsters switch targets (yes after first round probably, and if the DM is hardcore and is playing the monsters with their intelligence from first round as well), which will put the most frail characters into a lot of trouble. Remember that the GM has to have some fun, and while by that I do not mean kill the players, if almost all of the monsters' attacks fail (by keeping attacking the tank), the encounter just may prove too easy, the players wont be thrilled at having easy encounters, and the campaign suffers. There has to be a balance. If the tank is nearly impossible to hit that balace breaks. It is very similar to if the skill master of the group just succeeds too easily at skill checks. Then the DM raises the DC's of all checks to challenge the skill master, resulting in all other characters to fail in them if they ever attempt one. Get my point?
That said, I think this was a problem mainly of prior editions, and 5e will not suffer a lot from it, as from what I've read in this forum, the attack of the monsters increases rapidly, so the AC value of a character does not play that an absolute role in high levels (not that it is not important, +1 AC is still a 5% less damage per round, but the attack bonus of high level monsters and the fact that combats dont last that long, make AC just a factor of tanking, along with hp, saves and resistances, and clearly not the most important one). |
| #20Corran21Nov 03, 2014 3:19:24 |
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| #21melloredNov 03, 2014 5:06:08 |
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| #22HeirRaktusNov 03, 2014 7:03:25 |
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| #23Corran21Nov 03, 2014 10:06:43 |
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| #24melloredNov 03, 2014 10:24:21 |
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| (Reply to #19)FrogReaver |
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| #26melloredNov 03, 2014 12:05:06 |
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| #27HeirRaktusNov 03, 2014 12:08:44 |
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