Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Yunru Dec 16, 2014 16:03:35	Posting this now before I forget. Will update with better formatting (and more details) when not on phone. Line Break no Justu Salvaria was not your usual paladin, instead of any god or patron, here power came from her devotion, to her city and her people. Blah blah blah, fighting, town massacred, draws upon her dispare, harnesses it. Later seeks to perfect her skills at necromancy to bring back her family. Line Break no Jutsu Human Variant (Heavy Armor Master): 16 Str, 16 Cha, 13 Int, 10 Con, 10 Dex, 8 Wis AC: 18 (16+2 shield) Level 1-2: Paladin Level 3: Oathbreaker Level 4: +2 Str Level 8: +2 Cha Level 12: +2 Cha Level 13: Wizard Level 14: Necromancy Level 16: +2 Str Level 19-20: Paladin Idea is to be in melee with some undead "friends".
#2 Noctaem Dec 17, 2014 7:17:37	Why not be DEX/CHA instead?  Dexadins are better in basically every way unless you plan on shoving stuff around and even then you can get away with a lower STR if you really want to do that.  Go medium armor, medium armor master.  You end up with better AC, better init, better dex save, the ability to sneak around with no penalty, etc..  Carry Rapier, Scimitar and Longbow for damage type coverage and uses.
#3 Elfcrusher Dec 17, 2014 7:23:07	Noctaem wrote:
#4 Ganymede425 Dec 17, 2014 7:25:17	I'm not feeling the backstory. Why would a level 12 paladin be under the impression that taking a couple levels in wizard would bring back her family?
(Reply to #2) Yunru	Noctaem wrote:
#6 PhyrexianKitsune Dec 17, 2014 7:57:40	Do you really need heavy armor master at level 1? I ask because if you took vanella/standard human instead of vairent human you could get far better stats if your using point buy. 10 constitution is downright terrible for a frontline character, and with a standard human you could get str 16 dex 9 con 14 int 13 wis 9 cha 16 with the 27 point buy and have far better HP, con saves and conentration checks. Since your using heavy armor anyway, the dex penalty dosen't hurt nearly as much as it could, and your already taking a wisdom penalty with your current stats anyway. Unless you NEED heay armor master at level 1 for some reason or are not allowed to use point buy, standard human just seems better here as I think the benifits of a positive con mod are far greater then the benifits of having heavy armor master at level 1, espcially when you can pick it up at level 4 if you REALLY want it.
#7 Noctaem Dec 17, 2014 7:51:17	why 13 STR if you're not going for the Shield feat?
#8 Yunru Dec 17, 2014 7:58:35	Because that's what Paladins need to MC, annoyingly.
#9 PhyrexianKitsune Dec 17, 2014 8:02:46	I believe he needs at least 13 strength to take paladin levels after taking wizard levels since he is essentually "multiclassing" back into Paladin and thus needs at least 13 str and cha to take levels in Paladin after becomming a wizard.   EDIT: Ninja'ed. Either way, I still think standard vannalla human + point buy would be better then vairent human with heavy armor mastry in the long run because of the benifits of 14 con. However, if there is no point buy allowed I can understand your current setup.
#10 Ganymede425 Dec 17, 2014 8:03:51	PhyrexianKitsune wrote:
#11 Valinere Dec 17, 2014 8:07:03	Ganymede425 wrote:
#12 PhyrexianKitsune Dec 17, 2014 8:12:58	Ahh, that makes sense. I'm still fairly new to this edition(I come from a 3.x D&D and PF background) so I tend to make easy mistakes like that.....However, I was close enough I suppose. I will however ask if the reason for the 10 con is because point buy is disallowed at your table? If so, then everything looks fine. If not, then you can CERTAINLY do better then 10 for your constitution. Your not a fullcaster who stands in the back and dose everything in his/her power to take no hits, so you will need a decent con. Heck, if you REALLY want heavy armor master at level 1 and are using point buy I'd just dump dex to 8 to push con up to 12. Yeah, 14 would be ideal, but 12 is certainly better then 10 and heavy armor lets you ignore dex for the most part. Yeah, your initiative will be terrible, but again the benifits of con are a BIG deal.
#13 Yunru Dec 17, 2014 8:12:02	I could get 12 Con if I went 8 Dex. I'd never even considered vanilla human consider how plain bad it is normally.
#14 PhyrexianKitsune Dec 17, 2014 8:30:10	I will agree 100% that normally vanalla human is crap. The only reason I suggest it is because the one thing it's good for is builds with strange, heavily MAD stat layouts like this one in which point buy can be used to meet the finicky stat requirements. Such a use is EXTREMELY situational, mind you, so it dosen't save the race from being crap, but for some very specific builds it ends up being the only way to get the stats you need. However, with this specific build it'd probally be better to just go with 12 con and dump dex to 8 because heavy armor master can make up for the lower HP with higher defense and you can always use your wizard casting for false life at higher levels if you feel you need more HP; you do after all have 7th level slots by level 20, so false life can get you a fair chunk of HP at higher levels if cast using a higher level slot. However, 10 con is far, far too low in my mind. Yeah, -1 initative is pretty terrible, but the drawbacks of 10 con are worse then always going last, in my mind; some of the most dangerous stuff in the game require con saves which IMO is the MAIN reason the 10 con will hurt you. As stated, HP is important but you have mitigation for that...however you have NO mitigation for the fact your con save is a straight d20 roll, and as a frontliner you should expect to be making a few con saves over your lifetime.
#15 Noctaem Dec 17, 2014 8:50:53	Ah that's amazingly crappy requirements for MC'ing.
#16 GladiusLegis Dec 17, 2014 8:54:37	Nah, I'm OK with such requirements being in place. They make sense (plus if you think these are bad, remember 2e's dual-classing?). And they make builds like these have to sacrifice something to get the kind of power they're aiming for.
#17 Noctaem Dec 17, 2014 9:19:17	GladiusLegis wrote:
#18 GladiusLegis Dec 17, 2014 9:48:27	I agree Paladins should allow DEX 13 OR STR 13, instead, like the Fighter does. I'm just saying I'm OK with the general principle of multiclass stat requirements.
#19 Elfcrusher Dec 17, 2014 11:20:19	Plus Shield Master and Heavy Armor Master are just cool feats.  I love watching Kobolds bounce off my Heavy Armor Master Paladin.
#20 Yunru Dec 17, 2014 11:28:35	Taking vanilla human is not worth it still. Dropping dex 2 to boost con to 12 has the same modifiers, plus whatever +1 str/cha feat I take.
#21 Elfcrusher Dec 17, 2014 11:49:11	Yunru wrote:
#22 mellored Dec 17, 2014 14:51:16	Heavy armor master is best at level 1. Basic humans are really only good if you rolled a bunch of odd stats.