Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 KaptainKrunch Apr 10, 2015 11:44:56	So after reading the Monster Manual I discovered that there were an uncomfortable amount of creatures with "Magic Resistance".   Magic Resistance. The [creature] has advantage on saving throws against spells and other magical effects.     Basically what advantage means is that after level 8 when you can max out your casting stat, if the target has NO bonus in the saving throw, they have about a 60% chance of failure, stepping up to as low as 30% if they have stat bonuses but no proficiency bonus, and a pathetic 12% if they have a proficiency bonus.       This is really crummy for Wizards and Sorcerers, and I wanted to discuss ways to subvert/penetrate this resistance. Obviously I'm referring to circumventing Magic Resistance while still using spells, because of course your Barbarian couldn't care less about this nonsense your caster is complaining about.     Here are some options I already know about:   Ignore Magic Resistance  Magic Resistance specifically calls out Saving Throws, so the obvious workaround is to avoid spells that don't allow them.    1. Use "To-hit" spells - Most cantrips, Bigby's Hand, Scorching Ray, and others target the enemy's AC instead of having them save. I'd say this is the easiest route, but besides Bigby's Hand and Contagion, there are very few control effects in this category (That I can think of.)   2. Use Summons - Like animate dead or any conjure X spell. This is basically the same thing as targeting to-hit, but it's worth calling out specifically.   3. Use Spells that Target Abilities specifically, not saving throws - Bigby's hand again has its own strength score, which sucks for scaling, but it's awesome for grappling down that medium or smaller creature with Magic Resist. Another example off the top of my head are some of the Illusion spells - they don't use Intelligence saving throws, but rather Intelligence (Investigation) checks.   4. Use spells that "Just Work" - Forecage and Maze, off the top of my head. Otto's Irresistable Dance is another one that will at least kill one enemy turn.   Cause Disadvantage on the targeted saving throw This is super rare, and probably the one I'm wondering the most about if anyone has any examples.   Disadvantage cancels advantage, effectively penetrating Magic Resistance.   I only know of two ways to do this; Contagion (Still requires a to-hit roll), and Heighten Spell.   The latter Metamagic option is definitely there help out the Sorcs in regards to Spell Resistance - and it's something every Sorc should keep in mind.   Max out those Save DCs Again, this is super rare. Basically it has to be obtained through magic items in which case you're completely at the mercy of your DM. Even maxing them though the advantage is still going to keep you close to a 50/50 success chance which is generally unacceptable to me.   With that said, is there any other way for a Wizard to raise his save DCs besides Robe of the Archmagi?   Warlocks have it nice since their pact rods raise their DCs up to +3, and they can combo it with the Robe of the Archmagi. That massive +5 to DCs makes them premier Hold Monster casters, just a shame that they don't get much else in the way of control.   And what about Clerics? Is there anything at all to help them out?
#2 SterlingRat Apr 10, 2015 12:18:01	KaptainKrunch wrote:
#3 mellored Apr 10, 2015 12:22:29	Considering a lot of those spells could end the encounter if they hit, it's a good thing they don't hit very often.   But you forgot buffing allies.  Haste on the barbarian, forsight on the fighter, or greater invisibility on the rogue. Also, portance for divination wizards.  Of course, you need to roll low first, but if you don't, then give it to a rogue.
#4 mellored Apr 10, 2015 12:24:34	SterlingRat wrote:
#5 mellored Apr 10, 2015 12:26:29	Oh, and magic missile / sleep / cloud of daggers / power word kill.
#6 Tempest_Stormwind Apr 10, 2015 13:19:11	While I agree with your issue, I'd like to elaborate on a few points. (Note: I employ a > or < to denote advantage or disadvantage in die notation, i.e. 1d20> is a d20 with advantage.) KaptainKrunch wrote:
#7 KaptainKrunch Apr 11, 2015 6:22:33	Great points guys.   Buffing is of course a method of contributing to combat without worrying about spell resistance. Fantastic for Clerics (particularly front-line melee Clerics).   Wall spells are awesome, and the specific use against constructs is especially helpful advice (Particularly if it's a wall of Force.)
#8 RubenRybnikk Apr 11, 2015 13:31:19	Isnt there a feat for that?