Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Varuna Feb 22, 2015 8:41:25	Hello everyone, I am having the following problem:   Yesterday my second character died. Sort of. He had been split up from the rest of the group (the DM did that) in the middle of a maze. He narrowly managed to not fall when a trap door opened itself. I could not see the bottom or anything special about it, in part because I was playing a human and therefore did not have darkvision. Then, with his back to the pit, he was faced by a a rabid Owl Bear. My DM presented me with the following choice: fight that thing (I am a Fighter-Battlemaster with Crossbow Expertise in medium armor) or jump a jump he said I could not make to the other side. I tried to use menacing attack, but it saved. I exhausted myself with several ideas (scaring it away with fire, tying a rope around it and then jump, attempting to dodge it if it charged), all of which were rejected by the DM.   So after I was knocked in 1 round to low health, I decided to just try the jump, even though there was nothing to jump at. It was then that a rope suddenly appeared, for which I had to make both an Acrobatics check and an Athletics check. I failed the Athletics check and then fell unconscious because the rope burned my hands and did 4 damage. I then fell to what would have been my death, but appearantly my leg got stuck in some other ropes. This caused my leg to basically to be broken and twisted in several, painful ways. The only thing that saved me was that all the way down, the rest of the party was standing around. And the other end of the rope I got twisted in jerked another party member up, so he was suspending me. After getting the other guy off (because of the dark they did not see me hanging), they tried to let me down gently. They failed their strength and dexterity checks for holding the rope. I fell and landed, head first, on the rocks.   Now, TECHNICALLY, I still was 1hp from being officially dead. But I had been hanging there for several minutes, bleeding out, without having to make death saving throws. Not to mention I fell with my head on rocks.   Here is the deal: this is a character I made after my previous one died. He is only a few sessions old. The other was too. I pride myself in putting a lot of effort in my character's backstory and personality, so I am attached to both of them. But I cannot stand the way my DM puts our character in these kinds of deathtraps. Only half of the guys who started are still alive, and one of them has already been dead. After telling him this as carefully as I could (I hate conflict), he politely dismissed what I had to say, and added that if I continued to come, he was not going to change his style of DM'ing. And that he would be upset because he likes my character a lot, basically turning it on me, as if I am the guy who wants my character dead.   Before you say, just stop playing, I am not sure I want to. I love DnD. And it is the only group I know. But I find myself frustrated so often at decisions my DM makes, and how defensive and dismissive he is when I try to tell him that.
#2 iserith Feb 22, 2015 9:24:11	Varuna wrote:
#3 Yunru Feb 22, 2015 10:40:23	If you really want to, take the Old Man Henderson approach. Although maybe not as extreme.
#4 BoldItalic Feb 22, 2015 12:08:12	If you want to go on playing with your DM, and he doesn't change his style, you should probably change your own style of play.   It sounds like your characters are going to die often, so don't put too much effort into creating them. Perhaps use pregens but in any case don't bother with anything but the simplest backstory, along the lines of. "I'm just this guy with a sword. Nothing special." and tell the DM that you will work on your backstory between sessions if he survives. Explain to him that, that way, you can create a backstory that fits in well with his emerging adventure, which you can't really do in advance, can you?   Try making your characters with low Intelligence and role-play it. I don't mean a gibbering imbecile, just not very imaginative. Then, don't try to think up ingenious ways to get your characters out of trouble. Your DM will make them impossible anyway, either by flatly refusing to allow them or by making you roll dice until you fail, so don't waste your time. Put your creative effort into colourful details instead, which have all to do with the exploration pillar of the game and nothing to do with the combat pillar. Perhaps play a dwarf who can not only see in the dark but delights in the quality of the stonework, describes at great length how the stone was quarried, tut-tuts at the crumbling doorways, laughs at the clumsily-engineered trapdoors, and so on.  Make it so that your game is not all about problem-solving and dice-rolling. Make your game one of imagination between the dangerous parts. It's a different style of play but it's still D&D.   Oh, and next time you are in a maze, rope youself to the next PCs in the line, before and behind you, so you can't get separated and if one of you falls in a pit, the others can haul him out.
#5 Psikerlord Feb 22, 2015 13:34:18	Varuna wrote:
#6 Archon007 Feb 22, 2015 15:59:55	I would suggest you try to get your DM to read any number of posts or articles to pick up a few more tips and hints on being a DM, find another DM, or DM yourself.    Obviously, this is just your side of what happened but to me the DM requires way too many dice rolls and just says no to the players input instead of allowing them to make decisions based on the narrative he is describing. A possible reason for this is the DM is not only coming up with the challenges/encounters but also the solutions. So when a players tries to do something outside of the predetermined solution you get a no you can't do that or that won't work, instead of "yes the DC is ..., success looks like..., failure looks like..."
#7 Fake-Healer Feb 22, 2015 18:55:01	There are tons of crappy DMs out there on power trips. Your DM is within his right to ask for all the stupid checks he wants. Technically. Anyone who actually plays the game knows that even a low check is a chance to fail. Keep piling check on top of check is going to make failure more and more likely. 2 checks to grab a rope? Why? Maybe an attack roll and strength check...or just an attack roll. If any action takes more than one check then a DM should re-evaluate the check and either impose a negative or an outright disadvantage instead of adding on multiple checks.   My suggestion: Start DMing yourself or start looking for another group on the side. A killer DM who stacks checks and doesn't care for his player's concerns on the issue is not going to change and although you can probably adapt for a while, you are going to eventually get frustrated enough to want out. Start looking for alternate situations now to avoid being out a game without another backup. FH
#8 Noon Feb 22, 2015 19:44:52	D&D really needs to start giving XP for checks - the kids have figured making checks with no reward actually isn't fun.   Varuna, this is your DM's style. Trying to stay on is like you wanting to join a band and play music X, when the head of the band is all about playing music Y. You might like music, but they don't play your kind of music.   Some groups are sometimes more adaptable to taking on a particular players direction. Some groups are rigid and cannot go against any of their old habits.   Finding a new group will not be doing the same thing and hoping for a different result. Some groups are more adaptable - some groups will already play music (so to speak, roll with me here!) similar to your own style.   If you have the urge to dig your heels in, then you're being like the DM your talking about - because he's digging his heels in as well. Make sure to say nothing rude about his digging in, if that's the case, because it'd apply as much to you.   But yeah, some groups act as if 'going with the flow'  involves following the DM's way absolutely, without the DM adjusting even slightly to the players ways.   I don't know how to get through to those dummies about how tiny minded that is - but not everyone is like that. So avoid thinking about trying to knock sense into their heads about how to game. Rigid people are not easily changed.
#9 Rowan_Whispercloak Feb 23, 2015 2:53:55	Doe the rest of the group feel the same way? If so I'd say vote with your feet, or take turns DMing without the DM who I can only guess wasn't really clear on what kind of game he wanted to run before you got started. Barring that I can't think of anything else, due to life being hectic I haven't played in a consistance game in a long time I miss it terribly but I don't think I would want to be in your current situation. Best of luck and good gaming.
#10 ThorgritAnvilforge Feb 23, 2015 5:01:36	Yeah, seems simple.  The DM wants to run games a certain way, sounds like the (adversarial?) meat-grinder kind.  And sounds like you want to have some story elements, or at least not get bumped off every few sessions.  If you want to continue in the game, just make a pile of statistics named Adam The Classname, whose entire backstory is "I like to fight things". Also make a Bob, a Charlie, a Dave...   If that's not your style, then politely say you're not having as much fun as you'd hoped with the game, and part as friends.  Maybe say, if he wants to try a different DM style sometime, you'd be up for trying again.  Maybe once he's through a major arc in his campaign, you or someone else would take up the DM mantle for the group.  Maybe just find a different group.
(Reply to #3) jaappleton	Yunru wrote:
#12 CCS Feb 23, 2015 9:00:05	Varuna wrote:
#13 Archon007 Feb 23, 2015 9:46:15	CCS wrote:
#14 BoldItalic Feb 23, 2015 10:44:03	If you think a DM is trying to railroad you into solving his problem his way and, moreover, expecting you to second-guess what that is, one tactic is to go passive and say "I fall into a trance and ask the gods for guidance." Then wait until the gods (i.e. the DM) say what they want you to do. Then do that. If it all goes pear-shaped, the gods (i.e. the DM) get the blame. If, on the other hand. the DM blocks that ploy and says "The gods are silent." you are clear to do the most bizarre thing you can think of, like grappling the owlbear and throwing it into the pit while singing that song about the dwarf and the unicorn, very loudly at the top of your voice, and writing on the wall with your free hand "The Gods Do Not Exist" with the piece of charcoal you just happen to have in your pocket. All in the same turn.* The best that can happen is that the DM does a Chris Perkins and says "I thought you might do that."   * Or greet the owlbear as your wild-shaping druid uncle and say "Hi, Uncle Henry, how's grandma?". The results will be much the same, but it's more fun.
#15 RedSiegfried Feb 23, 2015 10:52:35	Noon wrote:
(Reply to #13) CCS	Archon007 wrote:
#17 BoldItalic Feb 23, 2015 10:50:41	CCS wrote:
#18 iserith Feb 23, 2015 11:00:30	RedSiegfried wrote:
#19 DemoMonkey Feb 24, 2015 6:24:47	The DM should never design a situation in which they (the DM) can not think of at least one solution.   Now that's not the same thing as ignoring player input or railroading them into "the one and only" solution. It's just acknowledging that it's bad form to create a problem/puzzle/situation etc without knowing for sure there is at least one way to solve it.   Otherwise I agree with the people above. If you choose to keep playing with a Killer DM, then start looking for ways to make your death scenes memorable and entertaining. Like, play a character with 11 siblings and see how many of them you can get through. "I am Sven the Fighter. I have come to avenge the deaths of my siblings Sven the Bard, Sven the Cleric, Sven the Rogue, Svetlana the Monk, and Svetlana the other-Monk-with-a-shortsword-instead-of-a-staff."
#20 SterlingRat Feb 24, 2015 7:49:39	Unfortunately, some people are like that, Varuna. It sounds like he's making it a very challenging game and there's a lot of risk involved... which is good and bad; Good because you really accomplish something just by surviving the story; bad because when you put some real thought into a character, it sucks to lose it.   Personally, I prefer the type of game you seem to, where there is back story and if a character dies, it's usually by mutual agreement between DM and Player because that makes for the best story. However, I also have a lot of fun playing in the type of game your current DM is creating. Listen to BoldItalic - if you can't change the group, change yourself. Play a Palidunce or other straight-forward type and just go with it. Have fun with the group you have instead of trying to force it to be the group you want.
#21 Synjin Feb 24, 2015 8:46:56	My job as DM is to make a game and environment to where the players, and myself, are having fun.  It's sheer Dwarven stubbornness for a DM to simply say "I'm not changing." when a player comes to them with a concern.   The goal is not to do it "My way or the highway". The goal is to make an enjoyable game for everyone.
#22 Noctaem Feb 24, 2015 10:30:35	Synjin wrote:
#23 mellored Feb 24, 2015 12:06:42	Sounds like an old school DM who has death around every corner and wants to challenge the players.   And yea, that style clashes with those who get attached to their character's.     My suggestion.  Ask him if you can DM.  Then run the game more to your style.
#24 iserith Feb 24, 2015 12:30:23	I honestly don't see anything legimately challenging about this game as far as it has been described to us, unless you consider "Challenge" to be guessing the solution the DM has in mind. I would simply consider that poor DMing and false challenge more than anything.
(Reply to #24) Macv12	iserith wrote: