Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 wytchfyre Feb 17, 2015 17:52:53	Can you use a quarterstaff with 2 hands and use both ends to attack, 1 primary attack and a bonus action offhand attack like in other editions of DnD and benefit from two weapon feats and abilities?  what is the best way to simulate this if i was trying to make a character like in babelon 5 that use a mimbari fighting pike, i could simulate it with wood and use a small wooden rod...cast shilelegh and turn it into a quarterstaff and use the dual wield feat to get +1 ac and possibly full stat damage on off hand attacks.  Im really interested in trying this out in AL play if its viable.  thanks for any input on this whether a druid or ranger would be better for this.
#2 pudd Feb 17, 2015 18:15:38	Not really no. Without any feats using the quarterstaff in 2 hands just increases the damage dice because it has the Versatile trait. If you were to pick up the Dual Wielder feat then you could use 2 quarterstaffs (quarterstaves?) with 1 in each hand. Sadly you can only have 1 of them buffed with Shillelagh. 1D8+str or wis, and 1D6. With the Polearm Master feat you can use the higher damage dice from using it 2 handed, as well as using a bonus action to attack with the opposite end of the weapon for 1D4 damage, and I'm assuming you add your strength or wis bonus to the second attack as well but not 100%. Should be 1D8+str or wis, and 1D4+str or wis (this is a bonus action but it's not an off-hand attack technically) I don't know which of those classes would be better at this, but only the druid gets Shillelagh unless you spend a feat on it.
#3 Archon007 Feb 17, 2015 18:21:17	wytchfyre wrote:
#4 wytchfyre Feb 17, 2015 21:06:19	its very feat taxing otherwise to get it as a ranger. it used to be possible to have the feats for two weapon fighting and two weapon defense help out for not using a shield for example. i suppose i could "use" two clubs which are light and usable with two weapon fighting.  but that would require using 2 bonus actions just to last 1 min each for the cantrip.  there is the polearm master feat which allows a weak...1d4 attack.. interesting note...under the shillelagh spell would the bonus attack be 1d8 because of spell override?  also would the quarterstaff count as a 1d10 due to versatile weapon? not so interesting build with shield and quarterstaff and polearm mastery so comes online at 4th level with alternate human feats and magic initiate(druid)
#5 Ravix Feb 17, 2015 22:55:49	Warlock: Pact of the Tome gets you Shillelagh with +Cha. It's very nice for my Arcane Focus(Quarterstaff) in combination with Polearm Mastery.
#6 pudd Feb 18, 2015 0:30:32	The Shillelagh spell ends if you cast it a second time so you couldn't have 2 clubs buffed with it.
#7 Ravix Feb 18, 2015 7:08:08	I'm not using two, I'm using one and a Shield (my Holy Symbol)
(Reply to #7) Coredump00	Ravix wrote:
#9 wytchfyre Feb 18, 2015 19:48:56	so it seems the optimal thing to do is use a quarterstaff one handed with shield, using magic initaite or being a druid cast shillelagh, with the polearm mastery feat and 5th level with say hordebreaker if ranger + possibly hunters mark and duelist for another 2 points.  hit 2 times on first target for 1d8+stat+huntersmark, bonus action the secondary polearm attack for 1d4 or is it 1d8 because of spell + stat + huntersmark and hit an adjacent enemy for 1d8+stat.  5th level human(varient) with magic initiate, polearm mastery feats.  so damage once under shillelagh would be 1d8+wis or str+ 2 + possibly huntersmark for say if stat is 16 wis...1d8+5+1d6 if hunters marked.    not nearly as cool as a guy wielding a quarterstaff with 2 hands but i think id just thematically pretend i didnt use a shield with the mini.  because to do it otherwise is worse.
#10 Kostoglot Feb 18, 2015 20:47:37	No, the Shillelagh damage increase does not apply to the bonus action attack, as specified by the developers.   Also... Shillelagh is really best used on Dwarf Nature Clerics (so they use the same stat for attacking and casting, no need for strength) or certain Charisma based builds that only really start working pretty late game. Of course, you could combine this with an Extra Attack class like Fighter or Ranger for greater melee capability.    You can play a Monk to use Dexterity for your quarterstaff, have bonus action attacks from level 1, and increasing weapon damage as you level.   Or, you can always just use Strength and Polearm Master, as Shillelagh's bonus action has a higher opportunity cost in combat later, and it's kind of a pain to make work for... not much benefit in most builds.
#11 Kostoglot Feb 19, 2015 13:04:48	If you're worried about the 1d4 bonus action damage of Polearm Master, keep in mind it adds your modifier, and can gain from Duelist style.   Even better, an Oathbreaker Paladin can add an extra 1d8 + Cha to all his attacks eventually, and can add in  smiles, Haste or Elemental Weapon for more.   EDIT: Thank you, autocorrect. I'm glad a Paladin adds smiles with every attack.
(Reply to #10) wytchfyre	[quote="Kostoglot"] No, the Shillelagh damage increase does not apply to the bonus action attack, as specified by the developers.   could you link where this ruling is...i would like to find a summary of these rulings and if any of them pertain to AL as well.  also shillelagh is not a concentration effect as far as i can tell why wouldnt it work on more than 1 club? other than taking more time to cast.  also is it possible to use a bonus action spell as a regular action? say if a rogue used his bonus action to disengage?   ...it specifies it is a replacement effect changes the weapon damage from whatever it was previously 1d6 to 1d8...why would it not also replace the hit from the butt end of the staff.  i dont see anything different in striking with that end vs any other on a quarterstaff.  does this make the quarterstaff under the spell a 1d8(1d10) versatile?
#13 pudd Feb 19, 2015 9:53:35	wytchfyre wrote:
#14 slumgum Feb 19, 2015 10:46:32	The Polearm Mastery feat specifically says the attack with the back end of the weapon is a 1d4.  A glaive is 1d10... but you don't use that for the bonus action attack provided by Polearm Mastery, no reason to infer that you'd use the Shillelagh's 1d8 in the first place.
(Reply to #14) AaronOfBarbaria	slumgum wrote:
#16 Kostoglot Feb 19, 2015 13:02:27	^ this. The haft bonus action attack is not the same as the quarterstaff. It does  not benefit.   A quarterstaff will not increase again to 1d10 if Shillelagh is used and it's held in both hands - there's absolutely no reason for it to. The weapons section show that a staff goes from 1d6 to 1d8 if held in both hands - it's not a flat damage increase, but a conversion to the specific, 1d8 written in parenthesis.   You are free to cast Shillelagh again, but it will end a previous casting of it, as specified in the spell description.   You can only use one bonus action  per round, period. No exceptions, no converting actions into it.   AL does not use a consistent rulings sheet - therefore, as with every game, speak to your DM.   Have you actually sat down and read the Player's Handbook yet? No offense, I just think it'd help answer a lot of your questions.
#17 Kalani Feb 19, 2015 13:10:34	Quarterstaff + Shillelagh: d8 (versatile d8) damage. Shillelagh has no effect on the damage die of a versatile weapon when wielded in two hands. It only affects the base die.
(Reply to #17) wytchfyre	didnt have the players hand book on hand when i wrote the part about casting shillelagh twice.  it seems that the damage die for the versatile property rises 1 step.  i dont see why it would be a problem with it doing 1d8(1d10) under the effect of the spell but i guess it just doesnt get any benefit anymore from the casters using 2 hands.     is it possible to use a normal action to cast a spell that is normally a bonus action or reflex action during your turn?  is there any documentation anywhere that handles this or is it just DM area.   thanks for the help, working the kinks out of a character idea and its implimentation in DND Next.
#19 Kalani Feb 19, 2015 15:47:26	wytchfyre wrote: