Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Coredump00 Oct 01, 2014 12:17:21	So....  I am planning on playing a Ranger Rogue archer character.  I am pretty sure that at lvl 10 it will be 5/5... but I can't decide how to get there. Specifically... where to start.   I will be using a long bow.   So... any opinions on which class to start with?   Any opinions on how to climb the levels?       Aw heck, while I am at it....  Planning on starting as Human Variant, and getting Sharpshooter lvl 1 for the added range and Ignore Cover abilities.   Any opinions on other (better?) options?   (If it matter, using this for Expedition modules)
#2 mellored Oct 01, 2014 12:27:52	Crossbow expertise is overall better then sharpshooter at low levels.  Even for rogues. At higher levels, with mult-attack, sharpshooter is nicer.  Of course, they stack.   Personally, i would go rogue 2 (cunning action) / ranger 5 (archery and multi-attack) / rogue 5.   Though if you still want to start with sharpshooter, take ranger 2 first for archery style.
#3 Gruff_Ironfist Oct 01, 2014 16:57:51	That's funny. I just made this guy last night. One option that seemed interesting was Rogue 3 / Ranger 5 / Fighter 2. The idea being you sacrifice Uncanny Dodge and 1d6 sneak (for now) to get Action Surge and fire 4 shots with sharpshooter in the first round. Seemed almost worth delaying rogue stuff for the heavy opener.
#4 RCanine Oct 01, 2014 21:33:38	I'm actually building a similar character (Half-Elf instead of Human) and am going: Rogue 1 Ranger 1 Ranger 2 Rogue 2 Ranger to 5 Rogue to 5 The rationale for starting rogue is that you get an extra skill, and I'm going for a skill monkey build. There are two real build options, based on how you plan on primarily using your bonus actions:   Two hand crossbow attacks (or an xbow + sling/blowgun) with Crossbow Expert Cunning action hit-and-move with Longbow/Heavy Crossbow The first one you'll want to get to either Ranger or Rogue 4 ASAP, the other you'll want to get to Rogue 2 ASAP. Each of the three weapons has a different benefit:   Hand xbow: pro: 2x sharpshooter has big damage potential, but your hands will be full* Longbow: fastest build, since it doesn't need the Crossbow Expert feat Heavy Crossbow: biggest damage die I think all three builds are viable.   * Some folks will argue you can use this build with a single crossbow, if you're planning to run in organized play, that's not an interpretation I'd recommend you stake your build on.
#5 Coredump00 Oct 01, 2014 23:44:55	Yeah... the killer is Ranger 1 is a dead level for Archer stuff.... but every other level has some archery goodness to tempt me.   For various reasons, I will be using a Long Bow. I was debating between Wood Elf and Human.... I think the 'Human starts with Sharpshooter' is going to win me over. I played with it tonight, and was able to use the extended range and ignore cover to very good effect.   The reality is... it probably doesn't matter.
#6 Demosthenes2054 Oct 02, 2014 7:48:09	Both the Wood Elf and the Human can work.  Sharpshooter is nice for negating cover but I haven't found it to be much of an issue on a wood elf rogue due to cunning action.  Personally I didn't feel one feat was worth Darkvision, Mask of the Wild, Longbow Prof (started rogue), and 5ft extra move speed.  But a lot of this will depend on how you play.  I like to be up at the front, scouting for the party.  So Darkvision and Mask of the Wild are very important.  Your build can hang back and let the fighter take the lead without worrying so much about positioning.   For leveling I would take one class to five and then work on the other one.  Rangers get a bonus attack at 5 and 2nd level spell access.  Rogues get Uncanny Dodge and another Sneak Attack die.
#7 RCanine Oct 02, 2014 7:51:50	Coredump00 wrote:
#8 FrogReaver Oct 02, 2014 13:29:06	Either do lvl 5 ranger then lvl 5 rogue. Or do lvl 3 rogue then lvl 5 ranger.  I can't think of a major reason to do a lvl 5 rogue then lvl 5 ranger.  Personally prefer lvl 3 rogue lvl 5   lvl 3 rogue likely makes you one of the best dmg dealer in party for lvls 3 and 4 and competitive at lvls 1 and 2.  You get more and better skills earlier.  You get the rogue bonus action thin early which is really useful in a variety of situations.     Yes you will fall behind the party in dmg for lvls 5 to 7 just a lil.  But at lvl 8 to 10 you will likely be the best damage dealer again.   Lvl 5 ranger first makes the dmg curve a little smoother but you do loose out on the rogues useful bonus action and good skills.     I just wouldn't want to live without the rogues bonus action disengage/hide/extra movement any longer than I have to
#9 Coredump00 Oct 03, 2014 23:47:47	I guess I could use a heavy Xbow until I got to Ranger 5..... have to think about that.   I had not thought about the Wood Elf advantages while scouting ahead. (Mainly because I didn't think about being the scout..though as ranger/rogue I really should have)   Okay you people.... supposed to make my decision easier, not more muddled...  :P
(Reply to #9) FrogReaver	Coredump00 wrote:
#11 Yunru Oct 04, 2014 3:09:47	If you really value damage, Fighter > Ranger. Of course, other than getting Archery Style a level earlier and Action Surge, at lower levels they're pretty similar.
(Reply to #11) FrogReaver	Yunru wrote:
#13 Yunru Oct 04, 2014 5:30:41	Eh, at level 3 go Eldritch Knight, at level 4 learn Hex via Magic Initiate. You're once again ahead of the Ranger.
#14 PhillPowell Oct 04, 2014 5:45:25	I am playing a human Ranger and took the Sharpshooter feat.  Just hit Level four and my Dex is now maxed at 20 (we rolled our stats) so I am at +9 to hit with my Longbow.  Taking the -5 to hit to add 10 damage has been insane especially because I went with horde breaker and can shoot twice if enemies are within 5 feet of each other.  Then add a hail of thorns for another d10 and you can in one round do serious amounts of harm.  Which so far has been great.   Also being proficient in stealth helps me get advantage on my attacks meaning the -5 is even less of an issue.   The lack of dark vision though is certainly an issue.  In the past I seem to remember a spell or two giving you the ability to see well in the dark AND you could make it permanent with a spell too.....does anyone know if that is likely to be possible in this ed?   I have two short swords and an AC of 17 but I am thinking of swapping them for a shield and a rapier and when it gets dark doing my best to survive as my ranged attack becomes pointless.  How do you guys get around the 'can't see in the dark' issue?
#15 Demosthenes2054 Oct 04, 2014 6:47:47	FrogReaver wrote:
(Reply to #15) FrogReaver	Demosthenes2054 wrote:
#17 GladiusLegis Oct 04, 2014 14:43:16	FrogReaver wrote:
#18 Yunru Oct 04, 2014 14:55:28	Nah, it's more like 5% (depending on what your static modifiers are at). Still 5% of DPR is quite a lot as a percentage.   EDIT: I refer to 5% increase as in "5% of the original, before accuracy is applied." In actuallity, if you're hitting 5% of the time, a +1 to accuracy nearly doubles your damage.
#19 Coredump00 Oct 04, 2014 15:06:26	I am leaning towards starting as Wood Elf Ranger then moving to rogue is probably the 'best' process...   In my case, however, I *really* wanted the Sharpshooter feat early, and there was another player starting as a Rogue.  So I ended up going Human Ranger.  OTOH, Turns out Expeditions gives out XP a lot faster than Encounters does... and I am over halfway to 3rd level already.....    I *think* I will goe Ranger 2, Rogue 2.... and decide from there.  At this point *every* level until 5/5 has some goodness I really want....
(Reply to #17) FrogReaver	GladiusLegis wrote: