Hi all,
I could use some help to try to figure out a ranger/warlock build for Rage of Demons. I'm hoping to try to find a way to make it work, but I'm not quite sure what the best approach is? I know, it isn't the most ideal class combo, but hear me out.
We know the adventures are going to be focused around demons and the underdark. Well, it just so happens Rangers have some amazingly relevant abilities at first level, Favored Enemy (Fiends/Demons) and Natural Explore (Underdark). It seems to me that having advantage on all Wisdom and Intelligence checks regarding these two things, as well as all the tracking and traveling perks, would be a huge win for the party in such a campaign. Though obviously this is an out-of-combat advantage, but they say 'knowledge is power'.
I also love Warlocks. Themes aside, having Devil's Sight in the underdark sounds like it would be a no-brainer. So I'm imagining at least two levels there.
Obviously the two classes don't share many attributes, but could it somehow work? Perhaps focusing on one class, or adding another? Sadly many of the ranged abilities of rangers won't work with spell invocations for Warlocks. How could they best be combined? Here are a number of quesitons I've been trying to figure out, advice welcome:
- What might be the best role for the character, in and out of combat: scout, melee, ranged, skill monkey? I've also heard scouts don't last long in the underdark, though maybe a chain familiar.
- What race?
- How many levels in each class?
- Where should I focus my attributes?
- What other skills or abilities would be very valuable in the underdark or against demons? Skulker for example has a lot of promise it seems because of the lack of light and darkvision limitations.
Any and all ideals or concepts welcome. Many thanks.
Yeah, if you dip Warlock for utility rather than straight combat, that would reduce the extra dependence on a high Charisma score. Or you could simply use those Warlock levels to give you a couple of extra spell slots that regenerate every Short Rest, since according to the PHB if you have a Spellcasting class and Pact Magic from the Warlock, the slots can be used interchangeably. I believe those extra slots would remain at low level though if you only take a few Warlock levels, since I'm pretty sure the level of your Pact Magic spell slots is based on your Warlock level, not total level, yes?
So if you only dip 2 levels in Warlock, those slots are still 1st-level spell slots. Rangers do have some handy stuff at 1st level, like Cure Wounds, Hail Of Thorns, Ensaring Strike. I'd include Hunter's Mark, but as a Warlock you've already got Hex, which is the same amount of damage(though it's Necrotic, not weapon damage), and the same duration. So it'll be a question of whether you want the bonus to attempts at finding the target, or you want to impose a penalty on him for certain ability checks. Of course, you could always just work the other way and let your Ranger spell slots give you extra shots of Hex, Witch Bolt, Armor of Agathys etc per day, especially if you're having a tough time getting the Short Rests you need. 
Plus, I assume you can use a 3rd-level Ranger spell slot to cast your 1st-level Warlock spell(like say, Armor of Agathys) at a higher level?
pdegan2814 wrote:
jaappleton wrote:
Is it better to dip warlock or dip ranger?
Would going bladelock make sense, or would that require more ranger levels for the fighting style bonus? And then is it worth it? What good ranger spells could a warlock cast with his slots?
imaginari wrote:
Chain or Tome Warlock dipping Ranger 2 isn't bad either. You could even consider a level or two of Fighter for extra health.
It does depend on what you want to play and your story. Variant Human Ranger who knows the Underdark, would be very useful even without Devils Sight, but obviously better with. Half Elf or Tiefling or Elf would also work very well.
I reckon a Chain Pact Familiar would be fine, maybe choose the Archfey Pact and take the Imp Familiar. The Voice of the Master Invocation, would mean you could scout and act through your invisible familiar who may also have a mundane animal form underneath the Invisibility. A regular familiar would be limited to 100 feet or so away from you.
Ranger 2 is fine for combat with their small choice of Fighting Style.
Why you have made your Warlock Pact is an important feature, it doesn't have to be you've sold your soul either. Your Patron may have foreseen that you are in or were in the exact situation where the Pact would be made. Their long term plans maybe to counter the Rage of Demons and the Madness. This could be beneficial to the world or be worse as the proverbial out of the pan into the fire.
Now I suggested the Archfey, but there is nothing to stop you choosing an Infernal or Great Old One Pact. You could even mix it up and use the Infernal Pact but associated with Archfey or Great Old One (Brizzellio the Flame Hag or Hastur Lord of Hellfire), or the Archfey Pact with the demon Erylerin, GOO such as the Oozing Mama of Natures Corruption.
To be honest a Ranger Warlock isn't that hard to Multiclass. You need Dexterity, Wisdom and Charisma 13 minimum.
Why would you not want at least that in each of those. Dexterity and Wisdom along with Constitution are the most common saves. If you want to focus on Ranger or Warlock then Dexterity is going to be essential as your Secondary or Primary stat. Charisma can help you and the party, through persuasion, deception or intimidation. Extremely useful when making deals with Wizards and Bards for access to Rituals, which as they don't cause harm, most wizards and bards will feel are trivial. Yet in the hands of a Book of Ancient Secrets Warlock, rituals are absolutely essential. So you could probably offer to do a minor task in exchange for a level 3 ritual or three level one rituals.
Once you have Devils Sight, then Skulker isn't that useful, but Spell Sniper is, for the Ranger Sharpshooter looks alright ( I would check a guide, as generally I am clued up more on Warlocks). Alert is very useful and will help you go first, a first level Ranger or Warlock with Alert, with even +2 Dex, would have +7 Initiative, as long as they are conscious they cannot be surprised, stealthy rogues and other bad people cannot gain advantage on attacks just because they are hidden from you.
Thanks Spanglemaker and others for the feedback and input. I realized I need to come up with a concept for the character rather than coming at it from a purely mechanical perspective. So how about this.
I’m looking to make a character who is your “guide" to the Underdark. He knows how to survive and get around. Secondarily, I like the idea of the character stalking or trailing his enemies, or other adventurers or parties for that matter. This also has me leaning towards a ranged or support character rather than a melee type, and perhaps uses guerrilla style tactics when on his own.
Perhaps the character was raised in the Underdark, which explains why he knows it so well. Or perhaps he was sent into hiding and was forced to flee into the Underdark and learned to survive through trial and error, or through a mentor. Now he guides adventurers, merchants, or other such crazy folks who want to go deep into the earth. Sometimes he leads them into dead ends or traps to die, or if he likes you, to where you actually want to go.
Build-wise, I’m thinking of a slightly less combat focused character, but tell me what you think.
RACE
Human for the feats, or
Drow since it is thematic, for the darkness spell, and the flaw isn’t so bad underground, or
Tiefling for the darkness spells and/or charisma
CLASSES
Rogue 1 for Expertise in Survival or Knowledge:Underdark(is there such a skill if 5e?), and Sneak or Perception
Ranger 1 for Natural Explorer (Underdark) and Favored Enemies (Fiends/Demons)
Warlock 3 Great Old One Chain for Devil’s Sight and Voice of the Chain Master. Perfect for scouting while minimizing danger to himself.
From here where are any number of options. To boost his combat abilities, he could continue on with Warlock for more spells and Agonizing Blast. Or perhaps continue onto Rogue Assassin for Cunning Action and Assassinate. Or go ranged Ranger Hunter, though the Ranger options seem underwhelming to me. I leaning towards getting getting Agonizing Blast and at least two more levels in Rogue. Though the rogue sneak attack goes to waste.
ATTRIBUTES (in order or priority)
Dex
Chr
Wis
Con
Int
Str
BACKGROUND
Outlander in the Underdark perhaps for the theme and the Survival skill if he starts as a Rogue.
FEATS
Spell Sniper (for the eldritch blasts), or
Skulker (for the hiding even against enemies with darkvision), or
Alertness (to explain how he survived in the underdark perhaps), or
Lucky (to alternately explain how he survives down there, which would make it nearly impossible to fail an Underdark roll)
Any thoughts on how to improve or flesh out this build? Or perhaps alternate builds for a “guide to the Underdark” style character?
Many thanks for all the feedback and help.
Rogue 1, Ranger 1, Warlock + looks pretty cool.
If you're going Devils Sight and Voice of the Chain Master, then Variant Human is perfect. If you want to do Voice of Chain Master and Mask of Many Faces, then go Tiefling, maybe take Friends as a cantrip.
Your Rogue Sneak Attack doesn't necessarily go to waste, even if you take 2 to 3 more Rogue Levels. Being able to sneak attack could be pretty handy if you were under the effect of Silence or an Anti Magic Zone. It would work effectively, giving you more options.
Spell Sniper grants an extra cantrip (Take Eldritch Blast, if you had it before swap it for another Warlock spell).
Take a look at the Invocations, maybe use them as an idea for your highest level version of your character.
I like the fact that you are looking at Rogue as well as Warlock. Expertise is really useful, there are lots of great invocations, (Misty Visions, Ascendant Step, Fiendish Vigor, Mask of Many Faces (Master of Myriad Forms), One With Shadows, Repelling Blast, Visions of Distant Realms, Voice of the Chain Master, Agonising Blast and Devils Sight). When I created my spy character who is currently Bard1/Warlock 5, I was looking at my future end game character of Bard 3/ Warlock 17. Thankfully she has a Rod of the Pactkeeper, which means her spells are more effective and once per long rest, she can refresh one pact slot with an action.
Outlander in the Underdark as a background sounds great, expertise in Survival, then Stealth or Thieves Tools, I guess.
It looks like you've got some great choices for Feats. One thing I particularly like from AL is the levels 1 through 4 flexibility in build. At level 1 you could be an Elf, 2 be a Gnome, 3 Human, swap out and rearrange your stats and spells. Level 5 onwards and you are fixed, this enables players to experiment with builds and concepts. Things that remain fixed from level 1 are name and equipment, so a level 1 rogue at level 3 could be a level 3 Wizard, with Thieves Tools and possibly other equipment and Armor that would be placed on the pack mule, until level 4 Rogue 2 Wizard 2. In sure that whatever you choose will be fun.
Alternately, avoid Ranger spells that depend on Wisdom.
Hill Dwarf Underdark Ranger with the Deep Delver background feature from Apendix A. This is the guy I'd follow.
Good advice Elfcrusher, also cast Ranger spells via Short Rest refreshing Pact slots.
Human or Tiefling Rogue 1/ Ranger 1 / Warlock 2+ ,I would follow because they would have the skills, the confidence and be able to persuade, frighten or trick me into following them. Also will make a great leader, either publicly or behind the scenes.