Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Astrydd Sep 30, 2015 6:38:59	Hello all,   Just came back to table top dnd after a 20 year break and I have a few questions.. If you don't mind.   I rolled a rogue str10 dex18 con12 int15wis13 cha10 and have been using two daggers..which I think need changing to 2 x shortswords  Currently just finished an adventure that gives enough do to move from lvl 1 to 4 and need some advice before i choose options. Currently in attack I range by throwing 2 daggers for 1d4 plus 4 and 1d4 no DMg bonus on the second blade if it hits. Me lee I take a turn to sneak, then daggers in the back 1d4 plus 4 plus 1d4 plus 1d6 sneak... Both attacks have advantage? When not in hide I fight with my dwarf friend which allows the two dagger attack and sneak. I have picked 14 locks so far and see my utility to the group probably outweighs the DMg. My thoughts are to go arcane trickster for some extra cc with sleep and aoe when needed burning hands.. My one spell at this lvl outside the illusion enchant group. Having given this rough picture.. I have a few questions... What does my level 2 ability let me do? Get in range, dual attack, get out of range? Does this mean the mob merely has to get in range with a melee attack? Can they have an attack on me in this turn? Am I better off going for 2 extra dex rather than a feat at lvl 4? If not.. Which feat do you recommend? I like the idea of dual wielding whips... Anyone do that? Can you recommend? Do whips keep mobs out of melee range? Otherwise should I be dual wielding rapiers? Is there a cap I should take proficiencies up to? E.g. My sleight of hand is 8 right now.. I will be getting a few extra points to spend... Where do rogues spend these? My other has been investigate as my DM allows int searches. Many thanks for any and all advice given,
#2 Mazzy Sep 30, 2015 13:25:32	Astrydd wrote:
#3 Astrydd Sep 30, 2015 15:03:10	Huge help on so many issues! Thank you! +2 dex is what I thought .. Takes me up to the 20 cap. I seem to have been playing the rogue attacking badly though.. Mainly dw and working to flank opponents already on the tank for what I was going to use .. Two elven shortswords .. For 1d6 +4 1d6 and sneak lvl 1 1d 6. But in range if they want to take a swipe at me. Are you suggesting from hide .. Advantage attack 1d8 +4 and sneak lvl 1 1d6 and re-hide? In a brightly lit dungeon.. Even with the elven cloak I got in the first part of the adventure (must look that up for its effects) I don't think the DM will accept that I can hide. Am I getting the wrong idea? Also bow vs throwing daggers. I can chuck 2 from hiding with DMg bonus on the first.. Is that not better than a bow? Even though I could use a longbow as I am an elf. So glad to have someone to bounce my questions off!  Thank you ... Astrydd
#4 Tempest_Stormwind Sep 30, 2015 15:16:44	Slight exceptions on dual wielding: you can already move / attack / move. Cunning Action just helps you with distance or stealth. Furthermore, two weapons means two chances to hit, and if either hits you get your sneak attack. Note that rogues do not get Extra Attack; they must dual wield to have this effect. Finally, swashbucklers basically get the disengage part of Cunning Action for free on all attacks, letting them dance around a target... or two targets, if they have two weapons. You'll also notice that in most situations where you will want to dual-wield, you will not also want to Dash, Disengage, or Hide - meaning that the conflict between the two is much smaller than you'd think.
#5 Astrydd Sep 30, 2015 15:29:21	... Also, I don't see Thieves Tools as a skill on my character sheet. Up till now we have been using sleight of hand :/ I take it I need to add Thieves tools as a skill and ask my DM to reallocate points?.... Another oops!
#6 pdegan2814 Sep 30, 2015 15:52:48	Astrydd wrote:
#7 Mazzy Sep 30, 2015 15:58:20	Sorry, I think I misled you on dual-wielding. It is true that dual-wielding and cunning action cannot both be used in the same turn since they both take your bonus action. However, I should not have said that dual-wielding was a bad decision.   Dual wielding is useful since it gives you an extra chance for sneak attack. And it does not invalidate cunning action. You can make your first attack, and if it misses then use your bonus action to attack again and try to get your sneak attack dice. But if it hits, then you can decide to disengage or if the enemy drops you can dash over to another one or move and hide. There is value to having both options open even if you can't use them at the same time. That said I would not invest a feat in it. Astrydd wrote:
#8 pdegan2814 Sep 30, 2015 16:00:36	Mazzy wrote:
#9 Astrydd Oct 01, 2015 2:50:26	Thanks so much guys... I have got a much better hold on this now I think I will ask if we can re-sort the skills proficiencies with thieves tools included (and more perception) Finally got the concept of mixing the DW and Cunning Action when the situation allows. When there is no possibility of hiding .. Straight DW.. Otherwise  Turn 1 hide and position Turn 2 backstab with advantage 1d6 plus 4dex mod 1d6 sneak, hide Turn 3 same as turn 2 Otherwise Turn 1 move to dwarf side, 1d6 plus 4 dex mod 1d6 sneak, 1d6 plus 1d6 sneak Turn 2 same as turn 1   Can I just chuck a couple of new things in? Toughness Feat? Healer Feat?  For later .. +2 dex to bring to 20 is priority Multi class Bard?   Thanks, Astrydd
#10 Noctaem Oct 01, 2015 6:55:24	Toughness is a terrible feat. Healer is decent, but not for a rogue.     Getting your dex to 20 should be your main priority as a melee rogue.  It gives you AC, damage, accuracy, initiative, etc..   I would also recommend you check out my stealth, hiding and surprise guide.  I'm sure it will come in handy for an enterprising young rogue.   http://community.wizards.com/forum/rules-questions/threads/4148631
#11 pdegan2814 Oct 01, 2015 7:09:10	Astrydd wrote:
#12 Shadowshiv Oct 01, 2015 9:40:31	Here's my current Rogue level 12 with 4 levels of Shadowdancer   Goblin Rogue Shadowdancer   Uses two Feycraft Shortswords of Shocking Burst (see Shocking Burst effect on page 225 in the DMG 3.5)   Feats:   Mobility, Dodge, Combat Reflexes, Greater Two Weapon Fighting, Spring Attack   Abilities: Sneak Attack, Trap Finding, Improved Evasion, Improved Uncanny Dodge, Trap Sense, Dark Vision, Hide in Plain Sight   At level 16 I have a Base Attack Bonus of 14/4, Dexterity of 26, +8 modifier   My sneak attack is currently 6D6   Combat reflexes allows me currently upto 9 attacks of opportunity in one round distributed, so if I'm concealed and 7 targets are in range but flat footed or moving out of combat I can attack each one. Here's where having Hide in Plain Sight (Ability) and Shadow Jump (Feat) save your arse from retaliation, so long as there is a shadow close by Hide in Plain Sight will allow you to disappear.   Obviously I'm a Melee combat Rogue, I got fed up with doing very little at range and was always mocked for my little contribution so I took my Rogue to another level. I look to Flank my opponent and deal Sneak Attack dmg with 3 main hand attacks and 3 off hand attacks, Once I've surprised my opponent, come out of hiding and attacked, Spring Attack then allows me move after my attack at which point I use Shadow Jump too prevent an attack of opportunity on me.   Taking Shadowleap (Feat)  will give you an extra 20ft to your shadow Jump, Note: Shadow Jump (20ft at 4th level) is most effective as a high level Shadowdancer. Shadow Jumping is at a minimum of 10ft increments. At level 4 Shadowdancer with shadow jump and shadow leap I can shadow jump upto 40ft, that could be 4 jumps of 10ft each per day or one jump of 40ft per day so long as there's shadow in the area.  Summon shadow is another good bonus at 3rd level shadowdancer,I believe i'm playing it correctly.
#13 Blackaxe666 Oct 02, 2015 4:01:54	Also note that you can only do your sneak attack damage on just one attack.   Quoted from PHB:   Once per turn, you can deal an extra 1d6 damage to one creature you hit with an attack if you have advantage on the attack roll.
#14 Tempest_Stormwind Oct 02, 2015 9:24:41	Blackaxe666 wrote:
#15 pdegan2814 Oct 02, 2015 9:58:15	Shadowshiv wrote:
#16 Astrydd Oct 05, 2015 6:25:24	Thank goodness for that last comment.. I assume that the things happening there were a different version of DnD? The day draws near when I have to decide what to do before I level and continue . Looking at what some people have put about fighter as a multi class I have been tempted... 1d10 heal early on , dex bonus on DMg for both attacks and access to a lot of weapons. I noticed that they have the possibility to do an extra attack. Same for bard. How does this work in combination with rogue dual wield? It may sway me a little to a  multiclass as I think I can manage without the lvl 20 rogue lucky thing. My DM has really been happy with some of the clarifications you guys have made. Thanks for all of those! Astrydd
#17 jaelis Oct 05, 2015 6:49:41	Noctaem wrote:
#18 pdegan2814 Oct 05, 2015 10:04:29	Astrydd wrote: