Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 intently Apr 23, 2015 6:14:33	Rogues don't start proficient with shields, but it doesn't appear to me that a shield would interfere with any of their class abilities. Do most rogues fight with two weapons? Would shield proficiency be worth picking up?
#2 mellored Apr 23, 2015 6:35:01	2 attacks gives you a second chance to land sneak attack.  And weapons are cheap so a rogue has no reason to not carry 2 shortswords.   However, TWF competes with cunning action.  So it's not something you will neccicaraly use every turn.  It just depends on the situation.   Shields are reasonable option if your aiming for a more defensive rogue.  Defensive dualist is another.
#3 intently Apr 23, 2015 6:39:38	If you take the shield master feat you don't automatically get shield proficiency, do you?   What ways are there to gain shield proficiency other than taking the skilled feat? (Which seems like overkill for a rogue.)   I suppose you could start as a different class and MC into rogue.
#4 mellored Apr 23, 2015 6:51:22	intently wrote:
#5 Horwath Apr 23, 2015 6:54:26	1 level dip in fighter gives you shields, medium armor, fighting style and some minor self-healing. with breastplate and shield you have 18 AC. pretty high for a rogue.   Later you can get Medium armor master feat, and with halfplate and shield you get to 20 AC. w/o stealth penalty.
#6 OnionDruid Apr 23, 2015 7:02:16	Strength based shield rogue works wonders. Grab medium armor and your Dex at 14 you will have a respectable 18 at first level by being a variant human and taking the medium armor feat (+1 str or Dex to boot). You play a lot like a fighter or any other level 1 martial with a rapier, expertise goes into athletics and one other skill. At level 2 you become super mobile. At level 3 I would take thief or arcane trickster depending on how you work your character's skills (AT can work on low Int). At level 4 you grab shield master, now you can shove with a bonus action, which means (as jeramy Crawford confirmed in a tweet) that you can shove then attack with advantage (sneak attack) while they are on the ground. This build eventually gains a ton of defensive abilities that makes being a front line fighter fun (uncanny dodge and evasion) when you respond to the DM with "I take half/no damage". With this build you don't need to use the disengage action all that much but the dash and hide action can still be golden. Due to expertise and advantage you won't need to twf once you hit level 4. Expertise shove (+7 first level) and advantage on attack roll makes it where you don't need the ASI boost to strength till later in the game, freeing up your early ASI.
#7 intently Apr 23, 2015 7:10:50	Thanks for all the input.   Going to medium armor seems like a waste of the rogue's dex. With 20 dex, half-plate and studded leather are equivalent, except that you have to take Medium Armor Master to use stealth.   Going Fighter seems good, but you'd want level 2 for Action Surge... and then you lose an ABI. So I guess you could go Fighter 4, Rogue 16 to get six ABI... but then you lose your level 17 rogue ability and Elusive.   With Cleric 1, Rogue 19 you again get medium armor proficiency that you don't need, and you lose two skill proficiencies that a rogue would start with. But you get some sweet spells.   I guess taking moderately armored or Cleric 1 is the way to go. A breastplate is better than light armor until you have dex 18 (which you'll probably have when you take the feat, anyway) so that could be useful.
#8 mellored Apr 23, 2015 7:28:19	intently wrote:
#9 intently Apr 23, 2015 8:07:30	Oh right, you get the shield proficiency even if you don't start as cleric. Nice. What do you lose for not starting with cleric? Seems like nothing.   Fighter 5 / Rogue 15 trades an extra attack for an ABI right? That seems like it could be a good trade.
(Reply to #2) Patron1972	mellored wrote:
#11 Danny_Montanny Apr 23, 2015 14:59:23	Don't forget that you don't need to use your Dex to attack with the weapon to get Sneak Attack, only that the weapon has to be a finesse weapon. It opens up a world of goodies for a Strength based Barbarian or Fighter multiclass.   Also, not starting Rogue only nets you a single skill lost, as you pick one up when you multiclass into it.
#12 OnionDruid Apr 23, 2015 21:16:28	Barbarian 2 is a very popular dip for Rogues.
#13 Danny_Montanny Apr 24, 2015 6:13:41	OnionDruid wrote:
#14 intently Apr 24, 2015 6:43:19	Danny_Montanny wrote:
#15 mellored Apr 24, 2015 7:02:02	intently wrote:
(Reply to #14) Danny_Montanny	intently wrote:
#17 OnionDruid Apr 24, 2015 14:06:34	I wouldn't rage much as a Roguebarian but I would use my Rapier and Shield with reckless attack and if I get hit I can decide to use uncanny dodge. I wouldn't want to do this all the time as I think I would be destroyed but when you really need to stab something to death advantage + sneak attack is a great way to go. Those two levels are worth more than a feat quite definitely. Heck, if you REALLY need to hit you could duel wield with reckless attack... Half orc roguebarian with three levels of fighter could be quite devastating.