Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Drizzt_hunter Sep 04, 2014 7:46:44	Now I want to first start this off that I think you can do both quite effectively. It doesn't have to be one or the other I am starting this thread to get people’s opinions on taking something that is for obvious role-play purposes and maybe ignore something that is a little better.  Now I loved 4E but it was very very combat focused so when 5E came out and I play tested it I fell in love it reminded me of when I played 2E and I have such fond memories of those days.    In 4e if you took the prestidigitation spell you would have been laughed at. It offered almost nothing to the game because the game was so focused on how to excel in combat and skill challenges. With 5e I feel like it is an awesome fun spells that adds a really fun component to role play. With Role play really being brought back to the fore front I find myself in a struggle sometimes to take spells for the pure role play factor. Has anyone else really encountered this? Or do you find yourself taking things that in 4e you would never have even considered?   As a perfect example, I think I am going to multi class my bard to a warlock for 3 levels and take the pact of the arch fey. It adds combat powers to me but also has a HUGE role play factor (I made the promise to the Fey lord at Gen Con). As part of this multi I was going to take the pact of the book. Two of the three cantrips I wanted to take are purely for role play purposes (the Cleric and Druid equivalent of Prestidigitation) now I really want to take these but don't know if I am also crippling myself my not taking other cantrips.
#2 iserith Sep 04, 2014 8:22:09	Combat is roleplaying. So is talking like your character might. Or making any choice your character might also make given the circumstances. It's only when the false dichotomy is created between combat effectiveness and roleplaying that you run into the issues you're having right now.   Bottom line: Choose what you like and don't worry about it.
#3 Drizzt_hunter Sep 04, 2014 8:40:20	I agree that combat is roleplaying. That doesn't take away the fact that somethings are almost purely for roleplay value. I agree choose what you like and so far I have, just saying that there does come times where you have to chose roleplay powers or combat powers.
#4 iserith Sep 04, 2014 8:48:01	Drizzt_hunter wrote:
#5 Clutchbone Sep 04, 2014 9:29:53	Prestidigitation can be very useful, ie - causing dumb enemies to fight each other (think the three trolls in The Hobbit), - causing a distraction for sneaking, - eliminating enemy light sources (esp. if your side has darkvision), - ruining someone's food or clothes at a ball to embarass them or remove them from the scene (shank them in private when they leave to switch out of their soiled pants!), - mark your target's back in a crowd for easy trailing, - etc etc.   Honestly just google "prestidigitation uses"  or similar and you'll find some awesome threads on this with way better ideas than mine. Having this spell (and minor image) available all day long is the greatest thing about 5e for me.
#6 Tzepish Sep 04, 2014 10:54:14	It's true in both editions that Prestidigitation is no help in combat and is cool outside of combat. In fact, I'd argue that the original poster has this backwards - Prestidigitation was a better spell in 4e specifically because your non-combat options, in general, were limited. And since 5e is so much more deadly in the lower levels than 4e, preparing Prestigitation instead of a combat spell is more likely to get you killed in 5e.
#7 Lipfi Sep 04, 2014 11:31:07	"Preparing Prestigitation"? You don't do that.
#8 iserith Sep 04, 2014 11:34:17	Tzepish wrote:
#9 Timborama Sep 04, 2014 11:57:23	I have a friend who likes to make very power PCs, like Bugbear Barbarians or amazing Monks. But he's ALSO the same sorta guy who played a Wizard that had 10 Intelligence for an entire campaign. So yes, one can RP a powerful character, or justify taking the twink builds via character backgrounds or personality. But I think it often boils down to the person behind said character, not the character.   That said, it ALSO boils down to the GROUP! Do they get pissed that he keeps critting with his Barbarian and killing everything after knocking it prone? If not, no one is interrupting anyone's fun, and as the DM you should try to challenge his character, yes, but also give powerful characters their time to shine.   Er-hem, back on topic. Speaking of the group? Our group is very often RP-focused, even in 4E. Lots of people "disliked" 4th for its combat focus, or lack of "clear" RP elements. But I say that it's just as easy to make an RP-based character (or situation) in 4th than in 3.x or 5th. It all depends on your DM and group. Sure you'd get a lot of powers you probably won't use in the process, but the actual battle and level progression system of 4th is a whole other story...   Despite its flaws, one thing I'm going to miss very much from 4E? Utility powers. Man those were the best...
#10 Tzepish Sep 04, 2014 14:19:01	Serves me right, playing fast-and-loose in my reply without checking with the books. Of course you are all right, I was attempting to point out that I don't buy into the original poster's idea that 4e was all about combat and 5e is more roleplay friendly.
#11 Kalani Sep 04, 2014 14:36:31	My AL human bard has the Prestigitation and Mending Cantrips. Both of these choices were made for IC reasons - I am playing a Noble who keeps their clothing and appearance in emmaculate condition. To compensate, I chose Spell Sniper for my human feat, and took the Eldritch Blast cantrip.   I will be multiclassing Warlock at 2nd level, to pick up 2 additional cantrips, and will be going Tome Pact for another 3 cantrips at 4th level (8 total). One of these latter cantrips will most likely be the Druid Shillelagh cantrip. This too will be for roleplaying reasons as my character will rarely be in melee range, but would be able to sub charisma for their attack stat when they are. I could have just as easily kept my rapier, and attacked with my +3 Dexterity bonus, which is currently identical to my Charisma. The only advantage taking the Shillelagh cantrip will grant is that I would be able to boost Charisma exclusively..... A +10% accuracy boost by 20th level, hardly what I call a major boon.   I strongly considered taking the Actor feat over Spell Sniper, as my character wears a mask (alabaster mask trinket) and frequently hides her noble herritage.   Unlike in previous editions, 5e is more forgiving of the odd roleplaying choice when it comes to mechanical class decisions, allowing for such concepts without gimping the character in the process.
#12 Gnarl Sep 04, 2014 18:55:57	@Drizzt: Why don't you just do both? You can have a character concept and optimize the character based on the concept. The only times roleplaying and optimizing are incompatible is when you insist on being the absolute best possible. That restricts your options to a few charop builds. 5e seems fairly forgiving for these things. The math gurus already dismissed a whole bunch of classes for being worthless but everybody seems to be having fun with them.   As for multiclassing into a warlock, go for it! Or work something out with your DM. I haven't met many DMs in my 25 years of gaming that doesn't accept homebrew stuff as long as it's not a lousy excuse to try to break the game. I'm sure the 2-3 fey-pact things you want could fit into feat.