Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Zakharock Jun 28, 2015 20:11:47	I used the scorching ray combo but now it no longer works after errata.       Does anyone have a good combo for a wizard / sorcerer or bard lore for a character level 10? I'm looking for something to high damage or combinations of interesting spells. Thanks for help!
#2 FrogReaver Jun 28, 2015 22:17:18	Zakharock wrote:
#3 AaronOfBarbaria Jun 29, 2015 1:03:04	It works fine after errata, stop being unreasonable
#4 Yunru Jun 29, 2015 4:00:22	Pick up Hex. Suddenly multi-hitting is relevent again. Or a source of advantage.
#5 mellored Jun 29, 2015 4:13:34	be a warlock. eldrich blast + agonizing blast + hex, plus other spells.
#6 Lilika Jun 29, 2015 7:56:19	Twinned Spell haste, your rogues and other melee will love you, and isn't that what you really want, to be loved.
#7 Sorsohka Jun 29, 2015 9:51:13	twin casting haste is 1 round. what to do next? turn on a game boy and play pokemon untill the end of the fight?   Exactly like Frogreaver said, Elemental affinity was not that powerfull it was simply adding some decent damage, but was barely making it decent damage. Now that they remove it sorcerer cannot do anykind of single target damage.   So yes if you want to do single target DPS go 2 warlock with eldritch blast and agonizing blast (because this is not overpowered this did not require to be nerfe,d but scorching ray elemental affinity that had to be nerfed), or go greatsword vengeance paladin with divine smite which is the best DPR in the game IIRC.
#8 mellored Jun 29, 2015 10:18:35	Sorsohka wrote:
(Reply to #8) Sorsohka	mellored wrote:
#10 drizzt_zylo Jun 29, 2015 10:45:06	Well if u want high damage multi target spells that hex eldritch blast is great speacially with sorc quickened spell and all those eldritch blast invocations. You just use your spells to get metamagic whenever u need them and quicken spell all day long
#11 Lilika Jun 29, 2015 11:52:36	After lvl 5 when eldritch blast is no longer able to be quickened btw, since it can now target more than one creature.   As it stands now, casters are more about control than single target damage, I don't see them in anyway less powerful than more martial classes and it would be nice to have some more single target damage options  There is a fine line of balance that needs to take place.  I could see this involving a feat somehow.  The reason is because casters especially bards, wizards and sorcerers have so much control already, that if they also had single target damage as well they would be the best options by a long shot.     If you intent to play a caster who gives up control for single target dps, there should be some kind of trade off or cost associated with this decision.
#12 Helnam Jun 29, 2015 11:50:35	Sorcerer/wizard job is to do AOE DMG melee attacks for so gel target, don't feel bad because you can't do both like a boss.  Talk to your DM if you're only fighting 1 thing at a time.  Also there are tons of really strong spells like hold monster and stuff that's very good vs a single target now everyone auto crits.  Sorry you can't do everything on your own I guess.   Welcome to the dilemma of.... Every class?
(Reply to #9) Coredump00	Sorsohka wrote:
(Reply to #11) Yunru	Lilika wrote:
(Reply to #13) Sorsohka	Coredump00 wrote:
#16 Thoughts_My_Aim Jun 29, 2015 12:52:37	Sorsohka wrote:
#17 Greenstone.Walker Jun 29, 2015 19:00:04	Sorsohka wrote:
#18 Lindonius Jun 30, 2015 0:03:39	OP should read Treatmonk's guide......   http://community.wizards.com/forum/player-help/threads/4209951   And stop obsessing about DPS and use spells in interesting and clever ways.
(Reply to #17) Sorsohka	Greenstone.Walker wrote:
#20 Thoughts_My_Aim Jun 30, 2015 7:52:05	*sigh*   There is a very simple solution to your problem. Reroll as a Fighter, Barbarian, or Paladin. Take a greatsword. Do the top DPR, since that is clearly all that matters to you.   If you don't see any particular advantage in being able to teleport. control minds, or rain down fire from heaven over being restricted to walking, jumping, and hitting things with a sharp piece of metal, then you clearly have no interest in playing a spellcasting class. If all you want is top single target damage, play one of the classes that does top single target damage.
#21 Yunru Jun 30, 2015 8:09:29	With a 50% chance to hit, Scorching Ray and Hex does an average of 5.75 per beam. With the same AC and stat mod, a level 20 Hand crossbow fighter will do an average of 5.1 per hit. 7.2 with Hex. So all you've gotta do to outdamage a H. Crossbow Fighter at level 20 is use a level 6 spell slot. I don't see how the loss of Elemental Affinity (which I didn't consider at all for those calculations) is such a major blow. Admittesly I don't take Sharpshooter into account, but my point still stands.
(Reply to #20) Sorsohka	Thoughts_My_Aim wrote:
#23 Sorsohka Jun 30, 2015 8:33:29	Yunru wrote:
#24 Yunru Jun 30, 2015 8:38:15	Sorry my eyes glazed over there once I realised you won't see reason. A post-errata level 7 Scorching Ray beats a Level 20 Fighter making 5 attacks without sharpshooter, and with both using Hex. What level do you get access to level 6 spells? 'Cause it sure aint as long a wait also a Fighter's fourth/fifth attack.
(Reply to #23) FrogReaver	Sorsohka wrote:
#26 Kalani Jun 30, 2015 8:44:15	Whether the character is "crippled" by the errata is subjective. The admins were right to leave subjectivity out of their ruling as no matter where the line is drawn, someone will complain.   The fact that their ruling only allows a minor tweak to an objectively broken (illegal) character sidesteps any issues of favouritism as it eliminates subjective "feeling" and "opinion" from the ruling   In respect to Scorching Ray - What is crippled to you is working as intended to me. I found SR to be OP pre-errata as it dealt more damage than most 6th level spells (when up scaled)   An upscaled 2nd level spell dealing more damage than a dedicated 6th level spell is the very definition of broken IMO. Esp. Considering the fact that fireball (the signature damage spell at the top-end of power) upscaled to 6th level is usually outclassed by a 6th level AoE spell (but only slightly).    I'm sorry you are upset by the change, but from a mechanical viewpoint. - SR was broken pre-errata. The errata could have addressed SR specifically, but chose for a future-proofed wording that avoides the issue of a future SR-like spell.
#27 Kalani Jun 30, 2015 8:46:58	FrogReaver wrote:
#28 Yunru Jun 30, 2015 8:53:06	Fine, let's assume a level 20 Fighter. Since you don't believe Magic Initiate can be cast more than 1/day it won't be running Hex. It will, however, be running Crossbow Expert and Sharpshooter. It has a 60% chance of hitting pre-Sharpshooter. Each attack has a 35% chance of hitting for 1d6+15. That's an average of 6.475 per attack. At 5 attacks that's 32.375 damahe a round. Oh no, however will I beat that. Let's take the Sorcerer. 50% chance to hit and a 2 level dip into Warlock for Eldritch Blast and Agonizing Blast. Eldritch Blast, followed by Quickened Eldritch Blast, gives us 8 attacks at 1d10+5 with 50% accuracy. That's an average damage of 42. At level 17. Three levels before the Fighter. AND is effectively repeatable at will, given expected numbers of rounds per combat and combats per day. Throw in Hex and the Sorcerer's numbers just go up.
(Reply to #27) FrogReaver	Kalani wrote:
(Reply to #28) FrogReaver	Yunru wrote:
#31 mellored Jun 30, 2015 9:15:19	Sorsohka wrote:
#32 Asyrin Jun 30, 2015 10:28:17	Eh, I didn't roll an Arcane Caster to do damage. The non-caster classes are better at it and if they weren't, no one would ever play them.   I rolled an Arcane Caster for the utility. Both in combat and out, we do that better than any other class by orders of magnitude. When in doubt, cast a wall spell.
#33 Thoughts_My_Aim Jun 30, 2015 13:10:42	Sorsohka wrote:
#34 JackOfAllTirades Jun 30, 2015 13:29:36	Why was your entire character concept completely dependent on an over-powered game mechanic?
#35 Macv12 Jun 30, 2015 15:35:34	More walls of text about how a fighter, who does nothing but damage, does the best damage. Let's see barbarian or rogue for a change. Shake things up.
#36 Treantmonklvl20 Jun 30, 2015 20:03:26	Asyrin wrote:
#37 Kalani Jun 30, 2015 22:42:38	I have a L8 conjuror with scorching Ray. It is always prepared and I cast it with about half of my L2 slots and the occasional L3 slot. I have never felt inferior when casting it. In fact, the times when I choose to cast it have been highly beneficial to the party.
#38 rippeddl Jul 05, 2015 14:52:54	Just curious, how well does a Fire sorcerer's damage stack up to other classes at level 11?   Seems like casting a quickened Sunbeam, then using a normal action to project the beam again is pretty decent damage. After that first round, the sorcerer can continue to use his normal action on projecting the Sunbeam again for 6d8 damage and then quickening any other spell of his choice (probably Scorching Ray). It would seem this would do decent damage.  Maybe not as much as the old Twinned SR, but it can all be directed at the same target.
#39 JohnnyBlaise Jul 08, 2015 17:02:06	It is hard for me to believe how often and how viciously everyone on here poops on wanting to be the best striker (or best anything for that matter).  The OP asked an honest question and instead of help he got flamed like 30 times.  WTF people.   As a Warlock/Sorc multiclass player myself, my Eldritch Blasts also got harpooned by this errata (and you can be darn sure there is no way I ever choose pact weapon now, thanks to the level errata on Warlock invocations).   So, my answer was:   Level 8 (war 2, sorc 6):   Precast Hex.  Quicken Eldritch Blast. Twin Fire Bolt. 2d10+8+2d6, 4d10+8+2d6 = Average 62dpr Level 11 (war 3, fig 2, sorc 6):   Action Surge.  Precast Hex.  Quicken Eldritch Blast. Twin Fire Bolt (Twice).   3d10+12+2d6, 12d10+4d6+12 = Average DPR 127.   Add three levels of rogue (assassin) and that action surge surprise round becomes insane.  By level 17 its... 40d10+16d6+40 =  316.  Enough to outright kill almost any CR 20 creature.   Note, I am not accounting for accuracy vs. AC.  Impossible to do in a vacuum, totally dependant on other factors.   And unlike the fireball bs, you are pretty much not limited at all in terms of how much asskicking you can do in a day, so long as someone in your party has a rope trick - you can use warlock slots to generate sorecery points, to restore sorceror slots, then short rest and regain warlock slots, along with your action surge.
#40 Keaerin Jul 09, 2015 22:12:02	JohnnyBlaise wrote:
(Reply to #40) randl	Keaerin wrote:
(Reply to #40) JohnnyBlaise	Keaerin wrote:
#43 Keaerin Jul 12, 2015 15:30:57	JohnnyBlaise wrote:
#44 arnwolf666 Jul 12, 2015 18:17:42	This has been discussed to death in way too many threads.  Help the poor guy build his character or leave him alone.  Your not going to change his mind.  Maybe experience at lots of game sessions will, maybe not.  Or maybe he just likes doing damage, nothing wrong with that.