Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 EJKruze Aug 19, 2015 9:11:25	I'm working on my secondary character for DDAL games and the new Rage of Demons season. He's principally a Defender archetype that can fill some Skill Monkey roles. Moreover, I really wanted to find a build that could use the Whip effectively. This is what I have planned out; I wanted to open it up to critique. Have I made any mistakes? Do you have any advice on ways to improve?   Human - Variant Starting Stats: Str 13, Dex 16 (+1 Race), Con 16 (+1 Race), Int 8, Wis 10, Cha 10 Background (custom): Escaped Underdark slave. Athletics, Stealth. Languages: Undercommon, Deep Speech. Feature: Retainers (fellow slaves escaped with me) Saves: Str, Con Skills: Acrobatics (Fighter), Athletics (Background), Perception (Fighter), Persuasion (Race), Sleight of Hand (Rogue), Stealth (Background) Proficiency: Thieves' Tools Expertise: Athletics, Perception first, then Sleight of Hand, Stealth. Language: Common, Undercommon, Deep Speech, Elven, Thieves’ Cant   Level   Class 01        Fighter 1 - Fighting Style Duelist, Second Wind, Human bonus feat Shield Master 02        Rogue 1 - Expertise, 1d6 Sneak Attack 03        Rogue 2 - Cunning Action 04        Rogue 3 - Arcane Trickster Mage Hand Legerdemain, Sneak Attack 2d6 05        Fighter 2 - Action Surge 06        Fighter 3 - Battle Master (Precision Attack, Riposte, Pushing Attack) 07        Fighter 4 - ASI (Sentinel) 08        Fighter 5 - Extra Attack 09        Barbarian 1 - Rage 2x/day, Unarmored Defense 10        Fighter 6 - ASI Dex +2 11        Rogue 4 - ASI Dex +2 12        Rogue 5 - Uncanny Dodge, Sneak Attack 3d6 13        Rogue 6 - Expertise 14        Rogue 7 - Evasion, Sneak Attack 4d6 15        Rogue 8 - ASI Con +2 16        Rogue 9 - Magical Ambush, Sneak Attack 5d6 17        Rogue 10 - ASI Con +2 18        Rogue 11 - Reliable Talent, Sneak Attack 6d6 19        Rogue 12 - ASI (Athletic) 20        Rogue 13 - Versatile Trickster, Sneak Attack 7d6   Final: Barbarian 1 / Fighter 6 / Rogue 13    Spells: Cantrips: Mage Hand, Minor Illusion, Message, Dancing Lights 1st: Silent Image, Disguise Self, Find Familiar, Charm Person 2nd: Mirror Image, Enhance Ability, Suggestion 3rd: Fear, Major Image   The thinking is to be an effective scout and with stealth, use of a familiar, and Mage Hand Legerdemain shenanigans to allow the party to get the drop on most enemies.    One combat is on he'll use his bonus action to shove via Shield Mastery and thus guarantee sneak attacks when striking prone enemies.   Without the use of magic items he'll have AC 17 to start ( 3 Dex, 2 Studded Leather, 2 Shield). This rises to 18 at level 9 (Unarmored Defense) then 19, 20, 21, 22 at levels 10, 11, 15, and 17 with stat boosts.    Weapon damage won't compare to a two handed warrior (weapon attacks of 1d4 + Dex + 2) but will be augmented by sneak attacks to mitigate some of that difference. Sneak Attacks will of course be inferior to a pure Rogue, but between Sentinel and Riposte he has a better chance of apply Sneak Attack damage twice/round.    The whip is chosen because it's just plain fun, but allows Sneak Attack damage to be applied with Reach, creating a useful synergy with Sentinel.    Precision Strike is chosen because I'm really going to want to apply my Sneak Attack damage every turn, and this lets me turn a near miss into a hit. Riposte is chosen for its synergy with Sentinel, punishing enemies no matter who they attack. It doesn't guarantee an additional application of Sneak Attack damage, but so long as an ally is threatening him it should. Pushing Attack could be traded out for something else. It does allow the fun combo of using shield shove for Push instead of Prone followed by this with the Whip for a total of 20ft forced movement.   The one level dip of Barbarian is chosen largely for the Unarmored Defense. The damage elements of Rage are wasted as I'll be attacking with Dex instead of Strength, but it does grant Advantage on Athletics checks to ensure that Shield Mastery is proning every turn and the damage resistance is excellent.
#2 drizzt_zylo Aug 19, 2015 12:19:57	I the idea seems fun though the proning idea is largely unneeded unless u want to provide advantage to everyone cause you'll get the advantage mage hand later and or have allies for sneak attack. Make sure you carefully manage your reactions you have at least 3 things for reactions one for attacking ally one for reducing damage and one for causing damage when you attacked. Also careful managing your bonus action too. You may instead maybe try swashbuckler rogue archetype instead it would allow you to almost force an enemy to chase u. I have a build I've been toying with a vengeance paladin swashbuckler rogue somehow get ahold of bards can trip pole arm master and war caster and sentinel to move when the enemy I provoked moves adjacent allowing me to hit it (I'd rather hit it with the can trip to apply disadvantage vs everything) move away and doesn't allow it to keep moving then next turn I can run up to it hit it three times hopefully once with sneak attack and run again (I think it would work something like that). I may have missed it but what fighting style r u using? If u got protector you could prevent a hit instead of just striking back don't know what that's worth to u just a thought. I'd have liked to have seen a finessable polearme myself so u could pare that with pole arm master. My 2 ceramic bits.
(Reply to #2) EJKruze	I'd love to run this as a Swashbuckler but Unearthed Arcana are not legal in DDAL at this time. Maybe I'll remake the character if that becomes legal in a future season.   Bonus actions are stretched pretty thin. Most of the time this will be used exclusively to prone enemies. None of the chosen battle maneuvers should require it but cunning actions are going to be largely unused. Proning enemies remains very important because it provides a source of advantage. I'll get the sneak attack damage either way so long as allies are near but with only one to two attacks I want to ensure that I hit every turn to apply sneak attack dice. Proning helps ensure that.   When it comes to reactions my preferred reaction would be triggering off of Sentinel's OA for a swing with sneak dice (since my ally will be near). This of course is very punishing so smart enemies will stick onto me, which should support my role as a defender. If they do strike at me the Riposte is there as a backup form of DPR. The sneak attack dice on reaction are what set this apart from Polearm Master/Sentinel builds and should help make up for some of the damage missing from my main attack series.   For fighting style I'm going to Duelist, the +2 damage to make up for some of the weaknesses inherent to the 1d4 Whip.
#4 Yunru Aug 19, 2015 13:49:41	I had a similar one a while back, it was a Barbarian 7/Rogue X using a whip and shield. Although it took Sentinel for the Bonus feat and used the rages to survive the heat "you don't pass me" generates.