Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 GabrielPendragon Jan 18, 2015 11:16:08	I've noticed that there appear to be no stats for siege weapons such as ballista, catapult, trebuchet, ect. There is a mention of siege weapons in the text of the wind wall spell, but otherwise no other mention of them anywhere that I can find. So what would the stats for such weapons be?    Edit: So i've found some information on siege weapons in the DMG, however infromation like cost, weight, or other such things are not listed.
#2 Ath-kethin Jan 18, 2015 14:24:45	The Pathfinder PRD is easily found online, and includes costs for all sorts of siege equipment. You might as well start there. No weights, though; If you really need that information for some reason, I'm sure it is availavlble online from museums, libraries, or other real-world resources.
#3 GabrielPendragon Jan 18, 2015 22:10:36	Yeah i've been looking through older editions and seeing numbers all over the place ranging from 400-1200 or more. Weight only being slightly better but still easily ranging 100-200 lbs.
#4 Kalani Jan 19, 2015 0:06:42	Seige weapons are found in the DMG, page 255-256.  The list includes statistics for all of the following:   Ballista Cannon Cauldron, suspended Mangonel Ram Siege Tower Trebuchet Costs are deliberately absent, as these items are not normally available for purchase for PCs, and are usually encountered as part of a set-piece encounter with two (or more) opposing armies.   2000-5000gp seems reasonable for your average seige weapon, given the costs for ships and castles.    Hope this helps
#5 Seraphex Jan 19, 2015 12:03:33	Still a shame these are not particularly accesible to player. Considering the DMG even stats out costs for building a full sized keep.. A ballista in a Portable Hole would be a nice addition to any necromancer's bag of tricks!
#6 GabrielPendragon Jan 21, 2015 15:11:23	So even if buying a full sized keep, there isn't any way for a player to know how much to fit siege weapons to protect said keep. Does it have costs for building materials? I could easily take real world bluebrints and figure out how much stuff would be needed if I could even find the costs for said stuff.   The other question that came up while doing this research is: Is the player making the attack of is the ballista making the attack? Both? Or the player making the specific action of x? Aiming? Firing?   Also 4kg for a hanging culdron? Which could be put together with a iron pot, flask of oil and some rope, total cost of 3g 1s. Even scaling that up to who knows what size is going to take a long time for it to reach even the 1k marker.  Or a Ram? which is listed as 4 g in the players hand book under portable ram, while yes the battering ram listed is a bit larger, I doubt its 1000x g value larger. Also the difference between a sailing ship and warship would be only three siege weapons? I imagine they have more then that, plus other improvements.
Synjin Jan 21, 2015 15:11:31	Just FYI, if anyone was curious on how many it takes to fire a siege weapon. I had asked:   DMC @CraigHaasis · 5m5 minutes ago
#8 GabrielPendragon Jan 25, 2015 22:16:59	Think I might have come up with a rough way to devise the cost and weight of siege weapons using the barding rules. Which is cost X4 weight x2 to make speciall designed armor for horses. Also then allowing for light ballista in theory, though I think the weight upscaling in this case is a little light and decided to go with x4 on the weight to also include the mounting/stands. Then applied the rules to light cross bow for starters, giving roughly this  Scorpion medium object Weight 20 lbs Cost 100g Armor Class: 12 Hit Points: 30 Damage Immunities: poison, psychic A ballista is a massive crossbow that fires heavy bolts. Action to load, action to fire. Bolt. Ranged Weapon Attack: +dex mod to hit, range 80/320 ft., one target. Hit: 8 (2d8) piercing damage.   The damage I pulled from the DMG in the part about creating monsters and upscaling their weapons based on size. Being a smaller version from the normal ballista i removed the need to aim as an additional action wrapping it up into the firing also swapped the + to hit to dex mod as this weapon is going to fire more like a normal crossbow. The AC and HP are arbitrary reductions from the normal ballista that felt rightish. didn't bother changing the description much.   Applied to a heavy cross bow looks more like this: Scorpion? Large? medium? object Weight: 72 lbs cost 200g Armor Class: 13 Hit Points: 40 Damage Immunities: poison, psychic A ballista is a massive crossbow that fires heavy bolts. Action to load, action to fire. action to aim? Bolt. Ranged Weapon Attack: +dex mod to hit, range 100/400 ft., one target. Hit: 8 (2d10) piercing damage.   By this progression looking at a normal ballista being 300-400g most likely. and weighing somewhere around I'd go with 300-360 lbs. As the weight seems to just under quad per size up and g only increases by 100 per size. quad weight is exactly is 358 lbs from the second one. Fitting the upscaling almost exactly the weight would be about 321 lbs.    As the two listed are large versions of their normal crossbow counter parts they would take a -2 penalty if they were being carried around as they are mounted weapons I ignored this penalty, although needing a profiency for using mounted weapons seems reasonable enough, well that and needing the proficiency with the base weapon also. The penalty of being immobile and rather heavy, not to mention rather akward to carry around, seems a plenty fair trade off? But these are just my thoughts on it.   Edit: changed the upped light to a medium object after considering that a roman scorpion didn't take up more then a 5 ft square, and then considered if the upped heavy would be the same, and thought that even if it is large would it be large moe like a horse then say a troll?