Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 jaappleton Feb 23, 2015 14:36:26	Who here is actually playing a Rogue?   Ranged or up close and personal?   I know it's subjective based on how you play, but on a scale of 1-10, with 10 being always, how often would you say you can pull on Sneak Attack during your turn?   How are you enjoying it?   How does your damage stack up to the rest of the party? If possible, please say your party composition.   What's the coolest thing you've done so far?   I ask because I'm contemplating one for my next character, but I've never played one before. I know what they're all about, but that's theory versus actual play.
#2 akr71 Feb 23, 2015 14:59:37	I have a stout halfling rogue using a hand crossbow and rapier as weapons.  While he attempts a sneak attack often, rarely does it succeed - I'd say a 3-ish.  I'm fine with that because it should be a seldom thing in my opinion.  Our party just recently reached level 4 and most of the encounters were head-on, leaving little way for him to get in position for a sneak attack.   However, an encounter with a group of orcs and an ogre was a lot of fun.  He was hiding behind a boulder - the dwarf barbarian and the halfling thief engaged the ogre exept the halfling ran right under his legs, effectively hiding behind/underneath the ogre.  A rapier jab into the wedding tackle followed by a crossbow bolt in the arse - dash away and let the dwarf mop up.
#3 FrogReaver Feb 23, 2015 15:30:58	A lot depends on how lenient your dm is with bonus action hiding and then attacking.   I would go ranged.  You can kite like no other with bonus action dash and bonus action disengage means crossbow expertise isn't necessary.   Take the assassin path and you can almost guarantee sneak attack on turn 1.  After that your melee allies should be near enemies and you can target those.  If you need positioning the. Bonus action dash helps.  If not then fire and move behind something and hide.     So the answer is that is I expect you to get sneak attack almost every turn but maybe the first and assassin takes care of that.  You can also kite like no other.   I recommend woodelf.  Makes it easy to hide and the Extra move speed goes great for you.   I absolutely loved my 8 con rogue. I was almost always the last party member standing due to range and kiting.   He also made a heck of a scout and was great at taking out guards at level 3.  He would shoot them with a longbow from 300ft away and if they died in 1 shot then the enemy encampment wasn't alerted.     Thats just how we played. Your experience may vary.   jaappleton wrote:
#4 FrogReaver Feb 23, 2015 15:38:13	My dm often gave my woodelf rogue advantage to attack roll when he bonus action his so I often got advantage.   At level 1 my damage was good.  At level 3 my damage was insane.  Extra attack would help the rest at level 5 but you will be close enough and then likely pull ahead at level 7 and 9.   Advantage by hiding isn't required for good damage, but if you get that even semi often you will feel like your damage is insane.
#5 FrogReaver Feb 23, 2015 15:41:24	Our party composition was a tanky dwarf fighter, a cleric (don't remember type) and a wizard and my rogue.  We had another melee rogue that died early on and she remade a barbarian because the friend we were playing with that had the fighter went back home.
#6 LordTwig Feb 23, 2015 15:41:28	Only played for a little while so far, but our Halfling Rogue gets a Sneak Attack more often than not. First round fire with bow before anyone else goes with surprise. All following rounds just target someone who is already in melee and get Sneak Attack on that attack as well. Even from range, just attack an opponent that is in melee range of an ally, no reason to run in at all. The rogue was out damaging just about everyone.
(Reply to #6) FrogReaver	That was basically my experience too!   LordTwig wrote:
#8 mellored Feb 23, 2015 16:09:37	i've had very little issue sneak attacking (9.5). mostly because of the fighter (7) being adjacent rather then stealth (2.5). i mix range and melee. swaping back and forth as needed. damage, with sneak attack, is more or less on par with the fighter, ahead if i can hide (and thus advantage). the best is killing a group by myself, simply shooting and running (dashing cunning action + some hiding). i was just trying to be a distrion, but i ended up finishing the enemy.
#9 Macv12 Feb 23, 2015 16:11:25	Way back (during the playtest IIRC), I played a dual-dagger pirate. SA was ridiculously easy to get, probably 8 or 9 out of 10 (as in, SA was available; accuracy was still around 50-60%, like anyone), because I stood under the Protection-style Fighter's shield and attacked whatever he was attacking. This was only for a couple sessions before the DM and I decided that this was way too good - by the time the wizard got their big 6d6 fireball, I was doing 3d6 extra damage for free every turn, in addition to 2d6 and DEX from my daggers. We implemented flanking rules and only gave SA on attacks with advantage, which I actually found more fun, since it required more positioning and risk/reward. But I'd say SA occurred at about a 3/10 rate then. (Attacking twice per turn helps a lot, especially with advantage).   Enjoyability was good. Between flanking and the ability to dash or disengage+attack, the positioning was pretty involved, and I always had to think about the best place to be or not be, the most efficient way to divvy up my attacks, which enemy needed the SA hammer the most, etc. Speaking of which, my coolest move was somersaulting toward some mountain lions and stabbing each with one dagger, killing them at the same time. That might have been with my ranger actually, I don't remember, but they played very similarly at that level.   Actually the coolest thing was being the only one in the party to save against a dragon's fear aura, and using Cunning Action to dart across the field and Help my friends recover while the dragon obliterated platoons of soldiers. But that was a bit of an odd case and mostly my fault.   I also played a multiclass rogue/barbarian, which was a 10/10 for SA, because barbarians can just decide to have advantage whenever they want. The effectiveness of this character compared to the full rogue was obscene until at least level 5 (when the campaign was put on hold), but my damage would have mostly halted there, while the rogue's would have kept ramping up thanks to SA. I took Sentinel to be the party tank, meaning I would wade into melee with enemies, do more damage than anyone else could do, and let them chip away at my effective 120 HP without a care in the world.   I also hated that character by level 5, because it was all standing in place and trading blows, with no variation. It was only as entertaining as the enemies we fought and how reckless I was feeling. (We once fought a lightning-powered behemoth, so I leapt onto its head and grabbed it by the horns to draw its attention.)   Didn't attack from range much, but I imagine it would only be easier to get SA then; you only have to target something next to an ally, so the local fighter or paladin (or beast master ranger!) becomes your best friend.   Also, Expertise is great fun to have. Take it in a really good thematic skill, and your party will always turn to you when it comes up, and you usually succeed at it. Makes you feel warm and fuzzy. Just don't do this when there's a rogue or bard with the same Expertise choice as you, because then one of you will be better at it and the other gets ignored.
#10 jaappleton Feb 23, 2015 17:00:21	Macv12, a very solid concern coming from your post about the class.    It got boring.   Of course, this is subjective to playstyle, etc. All the variable we all know.    I suppose standing back and firing with a bow is as boring as the Barbarian saying, "I swing my axe at it again!". However, the joy of the Rogue in combat is gaining the ability to use, and the proper execution of Sneak Attack. And since it's so easy to get, does that take away from the joy? After all, the exhileration of rolling and landing the hit is half the fun of battle. The other half is rolling high damage.    It seems that while the right setup, which seems easy to obtain, can grant consistent usage of the Rogue's bag of tricks, it also detracts from the fun of playing the Rogue.       Of course, that's in the eye of the Beholder, as it were, but still something that alarms me.
#11 Bumpo Feb 23, 2015 17:24:50	I am currently playing a variant human Rogue(Thief), 3rd Level, Soldier background. I took the Mobile Feat and fight with some variation of short swords and daggers (if I think I will need to throw something). DEX/CON/CHA - skills set up to sneak and talk to people. No "optional" combat rules (ie no flanking).   Finding ways to help the party (Dual wielding fighter, Bard, Cleric, Diviner Wizard, Paladin) is fun. I rarely get stuck trading die rolls with something. I usually swing at something, move over to bonus attack a bad guy adjacent to one of the tanks, and then bounce back to here I started (if I need to hold the line).   Coolest thing I've done? I talked my way out of a court martial....   I'll probably pick up Alert or Observant at 4th level. Maybe Sentinel at some point (to increase my Sneak Attack opportunities with Reactions).   I like that the class is functional in and out of combat. and allows for a broad range of character designs
#12 BRJN Feb 23, 2015 17:39:15	I have a monk/rogue (going mostly Monk) that I quite enjoy.    Lenient DMs will let me add Sneak Attack on whichever of my Attack or Martial Arts hits; if the DM is stricter, I put it on the Swordswing (because nobody can argue 'it doesn't work like that !") and live with the dice's decision.   Expertise (Perception) makes me the Designated Scout.  This is on purpose.  Expertise (Stealth) makes me the Designated Sneak.  Together, I become the Designated Spy. Somebody with sticky fingers could Expertise (Sleight of Hand) for lots of fun and disrespecting of Team Monster, I suppose.  I tend to play Acrobatic-style, given my multiclass.  Nothing to prevent you from Expertise(Acrobatics) and swashbuckle your way to fame, swinging from every chandelier you see or 'surfing' on vines (ropes &c)  like Disney's Tarzan.   I'm an Elf so I'm also proficient with Longbow.  I usually don't call SA with it, but may change if I get into tough artillery duels.   The easiest way to get SA is to have a melee companion.  You no longer have to flank a foe to get SA, just have an ally adjacent to your target.  Since I'm also a Monk, I have a bad habit of running off fast by myself; no SA until "the heavy infantry" arrives.  I will probably have to have a near-death experience to teach me better tactics.
(Reply to #10) Macv12	jaappleton wrote:
#14 Primarchx Feb 23, 2015 19:11:10	I'm essentially recreating my first AD&D character, a fighter/thief/acrobat.  Started with 4 levels of Rogue and will be switching to Fighter for the next 6 levels.  Having tons of fun.  It's a ranged build because the adventures we've had thus far have been outdoors for the most part and my character is a Wood Elf who can easily find places to hide using Mask of the Wild & has proficiency in the long bow.  Lots of Advantaged shots in combats!  Took Sharpshooter at 4th level more to get around the cover penalties my DMs have imposed when firing into melee than the extra damage potential.  He's definitely one of the offensive pillars of the group and has lots of other skills that make it fun to play.
#15 Kayal Feb 24, 2015 2:47:51	In the campaign I am running, there are two rogues (well a rogue and a fighter/rogue). They both seem to get their sneak attack damage quite often, mostly due to their party members racing forward to engage the enemy.   The fighter/rogue uses ranged weapons and also adds his superiority dice from time to time. Distracting strike helps set up the other rogue, as well.   The pure rogue alternates between her bow and her rapier. She has the assassin archtype and the alertness feat. So, she also gets her sneak attack every time she wins initiative (which is a lot).
#16 Yunru Feb 24, 2015 4:36:20	Barbarians? Uninteresting? Clearly you've never played an Eagle Barbarian 6 with Sharpshooter and a Longbow on a Broom of Flying.
(Reply to #13) 1eejit	Macv12 wrote:
(Reply to #16) jaappleton	Yunru wrote:
(Reply to #16) 1eejit	Yunru wrote:
#20 Miladoon Feb 24, 2015 7:41:49	My 4th level Mountain Dwraf Arcane Trickster runs with a stealth squad.  A Human Monk with a longbow, and a Human archery BM Fighter.  With this group it is all about hunting and picking our fights.  Right now,  it is stealth, perception, bow shots, monk flying kicks, fighter tricks shots and rogue SA from shortbow.  My dwarf got crit by a black bear early on, but other than that they chug a healing potion on occasion.  The AT spell load up is Tasha's, Identify, Silent Image, Color Spray, Mage Hand, Dancing Lights, and Message.   We got the drop on an ogre using Silent Image.  We lured it in with the damsel batihng in a river illusion.  After the surprise round we had it at half health and disarmed.  The monk engaged and used dodge while the archer and AT pin cushioned it.  I think that is what got us to level 4.
(Reply to #20) jaappleton	Miladoon wrote:
#22 Miladoon Feb 24, 2015 7:48:33	It is one of my favorite partys.  I looked at my character sheet and I realized I had posted Shield instead of Silent Image.  I think I couldn't decide on Silent Image or Shield and decided to go with Silent Image, and I am glad I did.   It can get you into trouble sometimes.  We are talking about going after the CR6 Mage.  Overconfidence will eventually get us.
#23 Clutchbone Feb 24, 2015 9:03:36	I played a Forest Gnome Arcane Trickster in the LMoP campaign. Thoroughly enjoyed it. Others were a barbarian, a ranger, and a cleric/warlock.   Mostly used shortbow, and then hand crossbow when I got one. Wielded a rapier for melee, later a +1 dagger.   I got SA dice on ~9.5/10 hits, because you only need an ally adjacent to the target (and/or be hidden/unseen). Although it is better to have advantage via stealth or other methods for a better hit chance.   Highlight: after a grueling fight, there was only my rogue and one goblin still standing and it was threatening to execute one of my downed allies. What did I do? I cast an illusion of stone over the unconscious ally, rolled high on a Deception check (yay for Expertise!), and said "Hah! You think I care about him? Flesh to Stone! You're lucky I actually need you alive or I'd have done that to you! Surrender!"
#24 feartheminotaur Feb 24, 2015 9:54:16	I'm DMing for my son and his friends and all of them are multiclass rogues (and all four are basically 'Batman').  Funny thing is, there are basically four Rogue/X in the party and each one is different.  That seems to be the hallmark of the class - it adds to any other class if you multiclass since Sneak Attack is easy to get (as easy as advantage, anyway) and Cunning Action is one of the better bonus actions, IMO.  All four of their characters are built around SA damage and hiding.  I'd say they can get SA reliably on 90% of their attacks.  They love it.  To the point where I have to play a healbot because no one wanted to play a caster.    The party is:  Halfling Fighter2/Rogue5 crossbow expert who has a giant tower shield with a kickstand so he can hop behind and hide, hop out and shoot, rinse and repeat Human Paladin of Vengeance5/Rogue2 who acts as the tank and does some serious damage with Smite/Sneak Attack Gnome Illusionist3/Rogue4 who uses illusions and smokebombs to hide behind (started as a wizard, but went rogue when after everyone else did) Wood Elf Shadow Monk5/Rogue2 who is a pretty awesome melee build, a nice stick and move fighter (built by her brother, but the girl that plays him is too scared of getting hit to engage in melee that much, so it seems less viable in play than it does on paper).
#25 Kayal Feb 24, 2015 10:15:30	feartheminotaur wrote:
#26 BRJN Feb 24, 2015 16:08:17	1eejit wrote:
#27 BRJN Feb 24, 2015 16:14:09	feartheminotaur wrote:
(Reply to #27) feartheminotaur	BRJN wrote:
(Reply to #17) Macv12	1eejit wrote:
#30 FunkySpunk Feb 26, 2015 19:19:11	Ranged Rogue here. I can get lots of sneak attacks, but I won't always get the target I want. I need to choose an enemy already "flanked" by one of the melee combatants in my party.  We have only played a couple of sessions, I have a feeling I will need to close to melee more often soon (which is not good). The party has a Fighter and a Ranger (melee), a Druid, and two Wizards. I can't see the Fighter and the Ranger handling all the melee and still stand after long.  Fortunately, we rolled for stats. I am a Forest Gnome with an 18 DEX.  If my prediction holds true, I'm getting a shield proficiency soon.
#31 ZHDarkstar Feb 27, 2015 18:07:55	BRJN wrote:
#32 CrimsonAssassin Feb 28, 2015 14:04:03	I've been experimenting both melee and ranged combat on my rogue.  Even went as far as dual wielding daggers (that I throw). It really depends on the scenario.  If I think melee needs an extra body to soak up some hits, I'll volunteer and have Uncanny Dodge at the ready.  If things are looking good, I'll hang back and fire with my longbow (wood elf, btw). I try to not be a one-trick pony.  I experiment and gauge how things are going.  As such, I don't know what feat to obtain once I reach lvl 10 (already maxed my DEX out) but I'm thinking about taking the Healer feat to help with healing resources.  I like being a versatile rogue.
#33 raithan Mar 02, 2015 18:56:24	I'm playing a level 5 halfling arcane trickster.  For combat I move between melee and ranged depending on the situation.  If there's enough cover to gain advantage consistently I'll snipe, if there isn't I'll move in and dual wield until I need to move away.  On a scale of 1 to 10 I'd say getting sneak attack off is a 9.  Our war cleric and barbarian are always in melee range so there's only been a couple times when I couldn't pull it off.  (One small note, it doesn't have to be an ally to get SA, the enemy of your enemy works too.)    I've enjoyed my rogue and it's improved as I've leveled.  Arcane trickster especially added alot of fun options.  One of the coolest things I've done is use silent image to create an illusion of a banshee that scared off one of the ogres my party was fighting.  I roleplayed my rogue pointing, turning pale as clean sheets, then screaming like a little girl and running away (only to hide behind a tree) at the sight of the banshee.  If I have one nitpick it's that alot of the roguish things you do (stealing, swindling, lying, sneaking around, finding and disarming traps, etc.) are dependant on the game your playing.  If there's no opportunity to use things like pickpocket or deception it can sap some of the fun out of playing a rogue.    Damage-wise I'm the best damage in my party.  Though I'm also more optimized than anyone else.  My party has a war cleric dwarf, a tiefling barbarian, a human warlock and a bard.
#34 JS20 Mar 08, 2015 1:50:33	Playing a level 5 arcane trickster rogue in one of my games. Honestly, I love it. Sneak attack is easy to get, but rogue still seems very tactically satisfying. I have to be very careful with my movement, because disengage doesn't add any movement, so if I overextend myself, I'm stuck sitting next to whatever bruiser I just backstabbed. I dual wield shortswords, so my bonus action is a huge choice every single turn. I imagine it would be a lot safer to stay at range, but less tactically rewarding.   My bonus action options are: -attack with offhand shortsword for 1D6 -Dash -Hide -Disengage -Use mage hand for some trick or another -Cast or move hex onto a target (variant human, warlock magic initiate)   My known wizard spells are Shield, Disguise Self, Sleep, Charm person. Variant spy background. Going to drop disguise self for alter self at level 8 for the concept of the magical super spy/hunter. I rarely use anything but shield in combat, but the others are great to have for out of combat purposes. I feel like a Swiss Army knife even if I am not healing the whole party or matching the barbarian's damage. I just get things done.   My favorite part is luring a baddie over to a secluded corner with me when they are wounded, finishing them off, and then rifling through their pockets mid-fight. What the party doesn't know won't hurt it.
#35 BRJN Mar 08, 2015 18:05:41	Tangent: I'm playing with a Rogue in a group, and we set up an Assassination attempt for him.  He KO'ed the Boss' bodyguard in one shot and drew off two (of 8) soldiers to concentrate on him.  The rest of us appreciated the relief, because we used ourselves as bait and were backed into a corner.