Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 whitehawk_omega May 08, 2015 0:18:15	So, my table has recently discovered 5th edition, and a few of us have taken to transferring some of our favorite characters to 5th from Pathfinder. One of my personal favorites was my Tiefling multiclass rogue/infernal bloodline Sorcerer. She was kind of a magical assassin, sneaking in to where her hit was, sneak attack with a well placed shocking grasp/vampiric touch or scorching ray if at range, and GG.From what I understand though, you can't sneak attack with spells in this edition.    Do you have any suggestions on how to rectify this? A change of class isn't neccesarily a bad thing, but I want to keep her sneaky spell assassin/sniper theme intact. I considered blade pact infernal lock, because she did channel spells into her blade sometimes, (especially when she was a 4e character),  but I'm not sure if has all the skillset I need to be an stealth assassin too. I was gonna make her an arcane trickster, but the whole no sneak attack with spells thing. I'm at a loss.
#2 Danny_Montanny May 08, 2015 5:22:49	You won't get Sneak Attack, but so long as you're an Assassin you'll get the automatic crit on surprised creatures with your attack (needing an attack roll) spells. So maybe just take Rogue to 3 to get Assassin and don't worry about the 2d6 SA so much when you're doing your spell assassinating. Or maybe home brew a feat with your DM that will give your SA on attack spells.   There's a thread called Dealing Death: The True Assassin's Gide, or something like that, that has a bunch of stuff in it. One of the highest damaging surprise bursts was Scorching Ray, if I remember right.
#3 jaappleton May 08, 2015 5:45:07	I suggest the following: Warlock - Fiend Pact of the Blade / Rogue - Swashbuckler (or Assassin) multiclass.
#4 Coredump00 May 08, 2015 9:53:05	I would talk with your DM about modifying a cantrip to be used with SA.  Maybe keep it from using extra dice. Or maybe the cantrip only does half damage if used for SA.   Using spells for SA is a power boost, but not *that* much of a power boost, so you could work something out.  I would advise making it work with only 1 spell, not all spells. (and a spell that requires an attack roll.) If you make it a level spell (ie not a cantrip) that will also limit how often you can use it in a day.
#5 jaappleton May 08, 2015 10:28:12	Well, attacking from range with a bow VS a cantrip... I am no expert, but I don't see why not. Cantrips don't get their ability modifier as bonus to damage (usually). So it's actually worse to use a cantrip.
#6 lall May 08, 2015 10:33:32	It won't help WRT sneak attacks, but Subtle Spell is useful when sneaking around.
#7 BestNorthernDope May 08, 2015 11:27:50	If your goal is to kill with a single spell from the shadows, I'd take an extra look at the combination Tempest Cleric / Arcane Caster / Assassin. Chromatic Orb or Witch Bolt, combined with Channel Divinity: Destructive Wrath and Assassinate makes for a big single hit. At level 6 you are guaranteed to hit for 64 damage (If you hit!) with a Chromatic Orb, which is not too shabby. Make your arcane caster class a sorcerer and pick up Subtle Spell, and you have one nice magical assassin. A bit MAD with 13 dex, wis and cha required, but should be doable.
#8 whitehawk_omega May 08, 2015 11:44:10	My understanding for why you can't sneak attack with spells is a scaling issue. Sure you don't get to add ability mod damage, but as you go up in level, cantrip damage gets bigger, where as weapon damage doesn't. Therefore a max level arcane trickster using say, shocking grasp, would do 4d8 lightning plus 10d6 sneak attack.
(Reply to #8) jaappleton	whitehawk_omega wrote:
#10 whitehawk_omega May 08, 2015 11:52:22	Mostly I'm trying to keep the character intact. She was a member of an assassins guild, and she prided herself on being both deadly with a blade and a spell. Being sneaky and deceptive just makes her job easier.   Really, the character was initially made in 3rd ed where I had the amusing concept of her doing shocking grasp low blows on creepers who tried to hit on her, (or insulted her because she was a woman).   So far I like the assassin/bladelock build, but I'm still contemplating other options. I will miss sneaky shocking grasps, but I can live as long as I get scorching ray and vampiric touch in her repetroire.
#11 whitehawk_omega May 08, 2015 12:34:39	So, upon doing some further research, I found some input from Mike Mearls, so I think his opinion might carry some weight.   http://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/01/15/add-sneak-attack-damage-to-eldritch-blast/   If Mike Mearls would allow it, despite it being against RAW rules, I don't see why not.   Though I would still consider assassin/warlock over an arcane trickster, I don't want to have to put points into int if I don't have to.
#12 jaappleton May 08, 2015 13:14:38	A bladelock has an interesting tool in it's pact blade. You can store it in extradimensional space."His throat was slit!" "Really? Cuz I don't have a weapon..." -shifty eyes-
(Reply to #12) whitehawk_omega	jaappleton wrote:
#14 jaappleton May 08, 2015 13:40:20	There's a lot of cool stuff there. Going somewhere and you can't have your weapons? No problem. Thrown in jail? You're still armed. Also, I know you mentioned Assassin for the Rogue path. Swashbuckler was just released in an Unearthed Arcana article. Since you'll be up close in melee, give that a look. It's by far the most melee oriented Rogue path, helping avoid opportunity attacks for stick and move tactics.