Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 The_Simbul_of_Aglarond Aug 26, 2014 17:40:12	A sorcerer begins with the knowledge of two spells at first level, and from levels 2 to 11 the sorcerer learns a new spell at a constant ratio of one per class level gained.  Then, abruptly, this progression rate is cut in half from level 12 onward--only to stop completely at level 17.   Does anyone else find this distibution ratio odd, arbirarily unlinear, or comparitively less rewarding for higher level characters?   While it is another debate entirely as to whether 15 known spells is too few for a 20th level sorcerer (and I firmly believe that it is too few indeed), the issue here is one of the ratio of distribution accross your 20 levels of character progression.  Benefits upon leveling up a character are meant to be a reward incentive for grinding out the previous level of XP, which means having a consistent pattern of advancement is crucial, and that the higher you go the greater the rewards for each individual level should be  The advancement of spells known for a sorcerer 'costs' twice as much (in XP/levels) at higher levels, at the very point when you need more known spells to coincide with the still consistent progression of spell slots. Compare this to a wizard whose number of prepared spells increases at a consistent rate with each character level.  Again, the issue here is not that a sorcerer should have a number of castable spells equal to the wizard, but rather that the distribution rate of known spells is decidedly uneven at higher levels.  It is not that a wizard has more (prepared) spells but that his acquisition of prepared spells follows a consistent of improvement from levels 1 to level 20.   For example, they could have easily gone with a 2/3 progression rate--where you learn a new spell in 2 out of every 3 levels, and gain some class feature/metamagic/etc upon the third to compensate for the lack of a known spell.  Basically it looks like the sorcerer was intended to gain a known spell with each level, then somewhere along the line someone decided the sorcerer needed to cap at 15 known soells, and rather than work out a pattern of advancement that rewarded each level equally they decided to cripple your spell acquisition past level 11.
#2 akschmid Aug 27, 2014 2:37:05	Don't forget you get to retrain one of your spells every level as well. This means you can get 2 spells each at your highest spell slot level until level 11. This is all that a Wizard is guarenteed. Other spells for a wzard being at the DM's descretion. I think giving the spontaneous casters (sorcerer, bard, and warlock) stomps on the wizards toes a little too much. I don't think your 2/3 progression is a bad idea though.
#3 Mephi1234 Aug 27, 2014 5:25:17	Are you familiar with the Dread Necromancer, the  Beguiler, and the Evoker classes from 3.x?     How about the profession system in Guild Wars, where we have the Mesmer, the Necromancer, and the Elementalist?    Magic: the Gathering, which has Blue (beguiler), Red (evoker), and Black (necromancer) magics.   This division shows up in a lot of games, or even fantasy novels.    You have elementalists who seem to specialize in controlling blasts of elemental might, as well as effects such as shields or moving swift as the wind.    Necromancers are the "dark magic users" and often includes other dark magics that's not directly related to raising dead bodies.   Beguilers and psychics and fey magics and similiar others manipulate people's minds and senses.      The bard is the beguiler.   The sorcerer is a dedicated evoker.   The warlock, despite not having animate dead, makes a good dark-magic user, ala necromancer; especially when the gloom/dark/umbral patron hits the scene.     These three classes are like specialists in this division.     On the other hand, we have the wizard, who seems to be combining these three concepts into one jack-of-all-mages class.    The whole selling point of the wizard is that he can pretty much do anything (especially if one invests in feats to steal cleric and druid spells!), but limited in other ways.  A large chunk of the wizard's design revolves around being able to do the whole spell swapping thing.  So, yes.   There is overlap between the wizard and all other arcanists by design.    But, you know what?       I feel that the bard, the sorcerer, and the warlock are better at being beguilers, evokers, and necromancers than the wizard.    Between having access to different spells, and unique class features, we get some really great, if far more focused, builds than the wizard.     Even with the school-based subclasses, the wizard is a generalist spellcaster.    The sorcerer, bard, and warlock are very much specialists.     And, you know what?   Specialists don't need a large number of spells.    They need to be focused on spells, yes.   They need tricks to make them awesome beyond belief at those spells.    Which they do.   And that's the idea.   Sorcerers are scary powerful evokers with metamagic.   Bards aren't limited to offensive enchantments, but include inspirations and vicious attacks the wizard doesn't get as a matter of just being a bard, even without using a spell slot.   Warlocks have dark magics and transformations no one else gets.