Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Selvarin Nov 21, 2014 6:43:42	Hello, decided to update a character from old times--a 13th level sun elf wizard--into a 13th level sorcerer. I never considered playing sorcerers before but the 5e version seems to be an improvement. The one complaint I have so far is the same thing another person had about rangers and their spell lists. Not counting sorcery points, the sorcerer has the same limit on the number of castable spells as the cleric and wizard, BUT they don't have even half the spell versatility of either. A wizard can learn new spells and copy them from other spellcasters' books, and clerics have a list of prayers to choose, but...I feel the Spells Known # is too low. In the end a player with a sorcerer character will feel more pressure to choose spells which provide offensive/defensive capability, and thus 'utility' spells will largely be ignored.   I get it, sorcerers have some nifty tricks. In a sense they're between warlocks and wizards as a class.I don't want to make them better than wizards, but it would be helpful if they had a few other 'known spells' at the lower levels so they aren't just tanks. (The fact that detect magic isn't a cantrip anymore seriously galls me...that, on top, is the cherry.)
#2 mellored Nov 21, 2014 6:59:34	Sorcerer's are fighters.  The hit things hard and fast, but that's about it. Wizards are rogue.  They don't hit as hard, but they have all sorts of tricks up their sleves.
#3 Kentus Nov 21, 2014 7:26:05	For now in my personal experience, the number of known spells had been never a practical issue (only in theory of some hasty ones). Don't know how it'll be in the high end, but Sorcery Points and the fact that you can use higher spell slots to enhance your spells did a lot (which means, that you don't need that much combat spells).
#4 Yunru Nov 21, 2014 7:36:22	Sorcerers also get 4th and 5th level slots earlier than anyone else thanks to Font of Magic. They can also get 5th level spells a level early.
#5 Theros Nov 21, 2014 7:53:03	Kentus wrote:
#6 Selvarin Nov 21, 2014 7:57:38	It isn't so much the number of spells I can cast but the ones I know. That's a good point, since you can cast x or y spell at a higher level it may not be as much of an issue. Maybe I'm stuck in 'old thinking', but I'm thinking of a simple feat which allows sorcerers and others with limited lists to know a few more spells--say, 1/3 of the caster's level +1.
#7 Timborama Nov 21, 2014 8:34:34	As I always tell people: If you browse the Wizard and/or Sorcerer spell list and only come up with less than 20 "must have" spells, then Sorcerer is probably for you. If you can't decide what spells at what level is the best and you just want them all, then go for Wizard.   Wizards have amazing utility and versatility with a great and varied spell selection. You often have the right spell for right now, and even if you don't, if you're given 8 hours (or even ten minutes or so, thanks to rituals!) you've got JUST the thing! As for class features, they have such a wide array of choices thanks to 8 schools of magic ALL having subclasses on TOP of their very powerful "regular" Wizard abilities, particularly at higher level   Sorcerers do more with less. They can stretch their spells to the limit, as well as get more out of said spells. They also have some neat effects that no one can copy, like Subtle Spell. As for class features, Wizard has the slight edge thanks to the fact that Sorcerer only has 2 subclasses at the moment, and basically the only thing they get from their main class is more metamagic, whereas wizard gets some neat non-subclass related items, so they fall behind there. That being said, their two subclasses are very interesting, with WIld Magic being unique and Dragonblood being great in terms of survivability (basically giving you permanent Mage Armor and permanent Fly! Plus extra HP!).   Personally, I like Sorcerer, but that's more for flavor than mechanics. The mechanics are fine, or at least good enough, compared to Wizard even if they might be sub-par. But my main beef with them is they need: More metamagic, more subclasses, more unique spells. For met-magic you should get another at level 6 and/or at level 15 or so. Waiting 8 levels, then waiting 8 more is really annoying! More subclasses will come with time, and I can only hope that Sorcerers get a unique spell or two to their list. Hell, even Paladin and Ranger get unique spells!   tl;dr-Wizards do more spells, Sorcerers do more WITH their spells
#8 Ashrym Nov 21, 2014 11:21:35	A PC only needs so many attack spells, especially since they can be cast in higher slots, and the extra cantrip helps.
#9 Sorxores Nov 21, 2014 12:26:06	Theros wrote:
#10 intently Nov 21, 2014 14:12:05	Sorxores wrote:
#11 Elfcrusher Nov 21, 2014 14:15:37	Yunru wrote:
(Reply to #11) Yunru	Elfcrusher wrote:
#13 DaveDash Nov 21, 2014 15:43:40	D&D is so much more than combat spells. Its about succeeding the entire adventure, and from actual play experience with both Wizards and Sorcerers, Wizards are by far superior at this. Level 2 spells for example have a HUGE amount of utility, and being able to cast rituals from their book makes Wizards much greater than the sum of their parts. Without a feat Sorcerers also miss out on familiars. Ever seen an owl familiar in play? Second best scout in the game , behind Warlocks Imp. I've also had my Wizard player use the owls eyes to see, while he hides around a corner using Bigbys hand to throw bad guys off a cliff. Amazing utility. Sorcerers also cant afford generally to waste spells know on stuff like arcane eye, leomunds tiny hut, water breathing, etc. All extremely useful spells in an adventure. Wizards basically get those spells for free. Also many of the Wizard specialists subclasses are better than anything the Sorcerer gets. My personal opinion from high level play tests is a high level abjurer is probably the most powerful class in the game. So yes, Sorcerers are amazing battle mages, but they're inferior adventuring mages.
#14 Elfcrusher Nov 21, 2014 18:36:11	Yunru wrote:
(Reply to #14) Ashrym	Elfcrusher wrote:
(Reply to #14) Yunru	Elfcrusher wrote:
#17 Elfcrusher Nov 22, 2014 7:53:09	Well, I think the "timing" is distorted metagaming, and I'd be surprised if very many DMs allowed it.  I certainly wouldn't.     On the other hand, creating the slot and then casting a lower level spell at that higher slot...that I would allow.
(Reply to #14) Sorxores	Elfcrusher wrote:
#19 Sanndor Nov 25, 2014 14:03:36	If I want to pound a nail into a board, I don't grab a screwdriver and complain that it doesn't pound nails as good as a hammer,  I just choose the hammer from the start.  <shrug>   All 4 Arcane casters have strengths and weaknesses, it's all about choosing the one that best fits to your playstyle and desired role in the group.
#20 Illithidbix Nov 25, 2014 15:52:37	Overall if you know what you're doing: Wizard is probably more powerful or at least more utility, but it does also involve more book keeping. And that turns off enough people.   I'd be happy to play with Sorcerer simply because you get magic toys and customising but you don't have to deal with a list of prepared spells.   A new player has gone Sorcerer in my group, which is probably an easier option to learn than wizard.