Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Sorsohka Jun 16, 2015 5:18:26	quick question.   How do you build a support/controller character in 5e?   Back in 3e edition, if you builded a support/controller, you could cast greater invisibility and haste on your ally, then casting a wall of force to direct the enemy toward your fighter and barbarian who are the meat grinder, Then cast hold monster on the target coming in the bottle neck to allow the fighter/barbarian to kill it quickly.   With 5e all those spell require concentration so you can only have one of those spell activated.   So I cast Haste on the fighter (if I'm a sorcerer I could twin cast it on both the fighter and barbarian) then I can cast fireball to kill all 20 kobold leaving only the 2 trolls alive, then what am I suppsoe to do on round 3? all the single target damage spell are pretty weak in this edition especially with Scorching ray who got nerfed with the new errata, dealing way less damage then what the other striker build can do.   Or does wizard/sorcerer are force to be bad damage dealer once they have there concentration spell activated and did there AoE damage killing the weak monsters. what other option do a controller/support character can do once his concentration spell is already active?   I am not interested in house rule, I want to understand what is the intended purposed for the controller/support builds in 5e with such a strick restriction that is concentration.
#2 mellored Jun 16, 2015 5:34:26	Sorsohka wrote:
#3 SterlingRat Jun 16, 2015 5:56:54	My wizard generally uses the help action to give the rogue advantage while my familiar uses help to give the barbarian advantage. I could cast a cantrip for some piddly damage (especially chill touch for regenerating enemies) just to have something to do, or Grease / Pyrotechnics if the circumstance allows for it.   I actually found myself helping the Barbarian hold down the bad guy, since help can give advantage on a skill check and escapaing from his grapple is an opposed skill check... I help him by holding the target down while he beats on it. And concentrating on whatever my buff happens to be for this combat.
(Reply to #2) Sorsohka	mellored wrote:
#5 mellored Jun 16, 2015 6:11:08	Does concentration persist even if the target and the caster are in different plane?
#6 Treantmonklvl20 Jun 16, 2015 7:18:28	Sorsohka wrote:
#7 Sorsohka Jun 16, 2015 7:42:02	The problem with minor illusion is the size (5x5x5) so if it was a wood elf assassin it wouldn't work since the wood elf if 6 feet tall.   Then I'm playing mainly in adventure league, and saddly adventure league doesn't require pro DM (I understand that the Organized scene lack DMs and the mentality is better to have a new DM who will learn to DM and next year he might be a good DM then no DM at all) but at the moment many of those new DM are still in the "DM VS player" phase where they beieve there job is to kill the players. So if the tactic lack strong rule support they will make a rulling against you. Since Illusion spell lack that support, Illusion are greatly left to DM interpretation, and those new DM who are still in the "DM VS player" phase will find a way to interprete to make them useless and saddly I'm new where I live so I don't know any home game I could joined.   For example one of the DM said that since the hafling in inside the box, everyone see the halfling getting inside the box, so everyone see a solid object(the halfling) passing throught the illusion (the box) therefore illusion is ruined. I don't agree with it, but since AL gave so much power to the DM and like I said not all DM do this, just those that are still in the "DM VS Player" phase they have the right to do such a thing, and since I appreciate concistency and reliability, I would rather stay away from using tactic that one DM will approve and the other will shut down.   But I see what you mean, to look throught the spell list again, identify the non concentration one and even if they are weaker then concentration spell to see how to involve them with my concentration spell I'm using in combat.
#8 mellored Jun 16, 2015 9:03:23	No reason you couldn't cast minor illusion more then once. There's 10 rounds a minute, so you can could have 5x9 or 5x10, if you spent all your actions on it.
#9 Tempest_Stormwind Jun 16, 2015 9:12:27	The thing to know about support in 5e is that support certainly still exists, but buffstacks do not exist. Saying that you can't be a support character because you can't buffstack is like saying you can't be a melee control specialist because there's no spiked chain, or that you can't be a scout because there's no spy satellites.   It's just a recalibration. That's all.   If you want a guide on this, see Treantmonk's.
#10 Treantmonklvl20 Jun 16, 2015 15:33:32	Mellowred wrote:
#11 guachi Jun 16, 2015 15:22:04	mellored wrote:
#12 SirCabbage Jun 17, 2015 9:20:30	Since the more obvious choices will be mentioned plenty of times such as Cleric, Bard, Wizard, and Druid, I'll attempt to argue a more unpopular choice.   My favorite non-caster that can fit this role and the one I'll make my argument for is the Monk folllowing the Way of the Open Hand tradition.   Here are the big concerns most people have with Monks; You don't take as much damage as the other martial types. You don't deal as much damage as the other martial types. You don't have the versatility casters get from spells. And the biggest problem of them all, you have only 1 ki to spend per level with no way of increasing it as of this post.   but here's what you do have; 20AC that's easily achieved through increasing your two primary stats, Dexterity and Wisdom. Extreme mobility, run up walls, leap over chasms ease, run over liquids, survive incredible drops and often without harm. You take half damage from most AoEs, none if you succeed the throw. You have proficiency in all saving throws, AND can reroll them should you fail at the cost of 1 Ki. You can speak all languages, giving your party the ability to converse with all beings capable of speech and opening a new world of possible alliances via translation. Attacks are magic, you are never without a weapon, you are never without armor, never without components, all because you naturally progress as these things. Your Ki fully refunds on short rests and can be used for any of your Ki abilities. Immune to disease and poison, can heal yourself, and so so so so so much more.   Now you may be thinking, "Great, but this has nothing to do with my wanting to be a support with aspects of control." But that's not true.   All you need is the Mobile feat for the additional 10ft of movement and safety from enemy opporunity attacks that you make attack rolls against.   You choose a target or set of enemies you want out of the fight, and take them out using hit and run tactics. See a caster about to tip the scale of battle? Go anti-support by darting towards it and chain a few Stunning Strikes to take it out of the fight quickly. See an enemy in melee with your wizard? Dart in, knock it down, push it away, high five the Wizard as he dashes away to safety. Boss? Don't panic, knock it down, push it away, and/or stunning strike it. Watch it's minions watch in horror as a half naked unarmed person slaps the boss around. See a Terrasque? well, okay, you should probably run away from this one . . . but you'll run fast! Use your honed monk legs to kick your allies down and feel emotionally conflicted as you reflect back on what you've done.   Even if you run out of Ki you can still deal fair damage safely, be a shield for your caster, absorb spells, absorb ranged damage, give your rogue sneak attacks, give allies the Help action benefit, throw down caltrops and ball bearings, translate enemy commands, draw attention and kite enemies away, and various other things in combat and a ton more out of combat such as scouting and backing up your rogue while he sneaks.
#13 Mistwell Jun 17, 2015 10:46:45	Sorsohka wrote: