Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 RubenRybnikk Jan 18, 2015 20:20:10	Hello everyone! I am currently running a Tempest Cleric and looking for some advice with how to proceed with upcoming levels. I am currently at level 4 with the toughness feat. My stats are: 11 STR, 10 DEX, 12 CON, 11 INT, 18 WIS, 14 CHA. I rolled for stats at level one and got 15, 14, 11, 11, 11, 10. I am currently wearing scale mail and using a shield as my spellcasting focus. I am not using a weapon since I don't have the Warcaster feat.    I am having trouble making up my mind where to go from here. Should I pick up another feat at level 8 or increase strength (or another stat)? What equipment (non-magical) should I be looking for?     PS: I tried finding a 5e Cleric Guide, but only found a list of guides from old editions.
#2 mellored Jan 19, 2015 12:35:44	i suggest +2 wis. you can use your shield as a spell focus, so you don't need warcaster and you can find the guides at the top of the forms, including my cleric guide.
#3 jaappleton Jan 19, 2015 16:51:49	Mello's cleric guide is the most up to date, and seems to be the only one still being updated consistently, including time to answer questions and such.    Tempest and not using a weapon...? Ouch. Gonna hurt when you get to level 8. Any shot of talking with your DM and switching over to Light Cleric? Your stats really suggest pure spellcaster, and Light is all about blasting the hell out of people with spells. Tempest is much more of a weapon user, and with your strength and dex not being so hot...    Unless you grabbed the Magic Initiate feat and picked up Shillaleigh. I can never spell that...
(Reply to #3) RubenRybnikk	Well I can buy a weapon pretty easily. My main focus is spellcasting. Sacred Flame does only slightly less damage than a weapon would and the damage scales up better than the weapon damage does. Am I not thinking about that right? I am currently using my shield as my spellcasting focus, but dont I need both hands to cast a somatic spell?
(Reply to #4) Macv12	RubenRybnikk wrote:
#6 slumgum Jan 20, 2015 2:30:33	My brother plays a tempest cleric and really plays kind of tanky.  The Wrath of the Storm ability does a ton of damage if you put yourself into a position to be hit.  I'd recommend picking up feats that increase your survivability or upping your Wisdom since the number of times you can use Wrath of the Storm is dependent on wisdom.    You really out to use a weapon.  Tempest Clerics get Martial weapons and you can simply sheathe your weapon before casting a spell if you want to be a stickler about Somatic Components.  I'm quoting directly from the PHB here   "Here are a few examples of the sorts of thing you can do in tandem with your movement and action: • draw or sheathe a sword"   If you want to focus on spell casting you really should switch to Knowledge, Life, or Light.  Light is really good for damage.  At level 8 all clerics get an ability that modifies their attacks which means you need to swing or shoot a weapon to make use of it (and it is a really nice feature).  The exception is Light and Knowledge, at level 8 they buff up their cantrip damage.
#7 mellored Jan 20, 2015 6:18:20	Macv12 wrote:
#8 slumgum Jan 20, 2015 7:08:47	Well if he wants to melee he doesn't NEED to increase strength.  He could pick up Magic Initiate Feat if his group is playing with them and choose the Shillelagh cantrip.  This will allow him to turn a club or staff into a Shillelagh which will use 1d8 and his wisdom mod instead of his strength mod.  There are also several first level utility spells from the druid class to choose from so the rest of the feat is pretty good too.
(Reply to #7) Macv12	mellored wrote:
#10 mellored Jan 20, 2015 9:15:09	Macv12 wrote:
#11 RubenRybnikk Jan 20, 2015 10:02:14	You guys are making me even more indecisive! I am definitely a front line fighter. We have a bard in our party so I probably wont take inspiring leader. I kind of like the Shillelagh idea, but would probably want to use a warhammer for RP. My charisma is so high because I was thinking about multiclassing into a sorcerer at one point (mistake). Now Im thinking it might be better to go into fighter for the extra attack. That would make using a weapon more feasable.
#12 jaappleton Jan 20, 2015 10:28:36	You'd have to give up five levels of Cleric to get the Fighters 2nd attack. Five levels is... That's an investment. You'd want a hammer for RP purposes. Grab a club and Shillaleigh via Magic Initiate, and carve the club into the shape of a hammer. Best you can do. At level 8, pure Cleric, you'd be doing 1d8+Wis with the club, +1d8 Thunder from your Tempest feature. 2d8+Wis. Now, you miss out on being able to make two swings, and you miss on having your Wis modifier twice from the second attack. This is strictly talking lv8, now, not further down the line. If you deviate from Cleric to dip 5 levels into another class, you'll be missing out on the spells. You'd be gimping yourself out of some spells, really. Powerful ones at that. Like it or not, Cleric is a spellcaster. It sounds like you're trying to make something work and you don't have the stats to pull it off. If you MUST be on the front lines, and you're Tempest, immediately go Magic Initiate.
#13 mellored Jan 20, 2015 10:41:04	RubenRybnikk wrote:
#14 RubenRybnikk Jan 20, 2015 11:29:51	Ok. I have a lot to think about. Thanks everyone for your help!
(Reply to #10) Macv12	mellored wrote:
#16 mellored Jan 21, 2015 5:49:03	Macv12 wrote:
(Reply to #16) Macv12	mellored wrote:
#18 jaappleton Jan 21, 2015 18:34:10	It's funny how everyone debates the issues with components, and somatic, and if War Caster does this or that...   How many DMs actually focus on that? Really? How many actually care?    Honestly, just talk to your DM about it. You could have NOTHING to worry about.
#19 mellored Jan 21, 2015 18:35:18	Macv12 wrote:
#20 Jamwes Jan 22, 2015 9:40:21	I feel that the game designers intended for Somatic (non-Material) spells to be cast while holding a focus. To justify this, I feel that a caster can choose to add componets to cast a spell. Does the spell have S but not M? Then the caster can choose to cast it with both S and M. Which means the Cleric can cast a S spell while holding a holy symbol shield.
#21 Chaosfruitbat Jan 23, 2015 9:04:51	Sorry to gently hijack this thread, but I feel my question fits in better there then creating a new thread.   Myself and some friends have rolled characters using 3d6 6 times, and put the scores into whichever attribute we require for our classes. None of that 4d6 7 times discarding stuff. This has resulted in my Tempest Cleric ending up with some fairly low numbers, and I'm struggling to decide a direction to devolop him.   This will be a long term character, so i think I should put points into Wisdom and use cantrips mainly, though this seems a waste of martial weapons. Sadly I have only +1 on my strength, so i tend to miss a fair bit, which is rather frustrating.   Should i bung a couple of extra Strength on at level 4, or put it into Wisdom and not worry too much about melee?   I love the class and build, just looking for pointers thanks
#22 jaappleton Jan 23, 2015 9:09:09	If your Wis is serviceable, tough it out until you can get a feat. Pick Magic Initiate and take the Shillaleigh Cantrip from the Druid list. Now Wisdom is used for melee.
#23 mellored Jan 23, 2015 9:22:12	Chaosfruitbat wrote:
#24 jaappleton Jan 23, 2015 10:24:17	But he'll miss out on some Tempest features without using a weapon, won't he? Like the push ability, and the extra d8 damage at lv8 requires a weapon. If he were going to focus on Sacred Flame he'd be better off switching Domains to Light.
#25 mellored Jan 23, 2015 10:33:32	jaappleton wrote:
#26 Chaosfruitbat Jan 23, 2015 13:14:00	Thanks guys, some really great comments!
#27 RubenRybnikk Feb 17, 2015 12:10:24	Revisiting this again. Due to the way the world is evolving I can now multiclass into a sorcerer. I will probably pick up 6-11 levels there to get lightning Bolt and Chain Lightning and meta magic. I would wait until I reach lvl 8 with my cleric. So maybe do cleric 8/sorcerer 12. If I do Cleric 14/Sorcerer 6, I get an extra 2d8 to my weapon attacks, Lightning Bolt, and Bend Luck. I would lose out on one ability score improvement, but the trade off might be worth it. I would probably either max out Wisdome at level 8, or pick up Shillelagh or War Caster. That would leave two more ability increases that I would probably put towards Charisma. You guys have any suggestions for me? I am having trouble making up my mind.
#28 RubenRybnikk Feb 17, 2015 17:19:36	Also, can someone explain to me how casting more than spell in a turn works if I was to Quicken a spell?
#29 AaronOfBarbaria Feb 17, 2015 17:56:51	RubenRybnikk wrote:
#30 Kostoglot Feb 18, 2015 21:25:46	As Crawford clarified in one of his tweets, the focus only works as the somatic focus *if* it's fulfilling material requirements. That is:   Verbal spell - fine Material spell - fine Somatic spell - need extra hand V, M - fine V, S - need extra hand M, S - fine V, S, M - fine   Also, component cost spells are exceptions.   ...yes, I think it's totally absurd, but that's the rule as written.
#31 Kostoglot Feb 18, 2015 21:27:50	For more textual support - the rule allowing a focus to fulfill somatic requirements is listed under the material components section; it stands to reason you would not use those rules unless using a material component.
#32 RubenRybnikk Feb 19, 2015 4:52:41	Good to know. Luckily my DM just house ruled that it was OK. The idea is that the shield is strapped to my arm in a manner that I can let go of it for a couple seconds, cast the spell, and grab hold of it again.
#33 Kostoglot Feb 19, 2015 12:41:52	Sounds perfect, then! Otherwise, weapon domain clerics and paladins suffer a feat tax they can't afford particularly well.
#34 Saelorn Feb 20, 2015 12:59:33	Kostoglot wrote:
#35 Kostoglot Feb 20, 2015 23:58:43	Saelorn wrote:
(Reply to #29) RubenRybnikk	AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
#37 mellored Feb 25, 2015 15:05:05	RubenRybnikk wrote:
#38 RubenRybnikk Feb 25, 2015 15:07:41	I have decided to do Cleric 6/Sorcerer 14. Would u guys think that will work? Also, which type of dragon should I go with?
#39 Hecetv Feb 25, 2015 21:21:05	Kostoglot wrote: