The Art of War: A Fighter Guide
"Know your enemy and know yourself and you can fight a hundred battles without disaster."
-Sun Tzu, The Art of War
Table of Contents
- Introduction
- Proficiencies, Attributes, Backgrounds, and Class Features
- Martial Archetypes
- Races
- Feats
- Maneuvers (Battle Master)
- Spells (Eldritch Knight)
- Equipment
- Multiclassing
- FAQ
- Builds and Combos
Format
This guide will use the following ratings for choices made during character creation and while leveling up:
Red is dead. A trap that you will want to avoid at all costs, either because it's ineffective or because it's thoroughly outclassed by another option that accomplishes something similar.
Purple is a substandard choice. It might be useful in corner-case situations, but overall it's not worth the investment.
Black is average. You're not hurting your character by taking this, and it will probably help in some situations, but there are better choices.
Blue is a good choice. It definitely helps your character in the majority of cases.
Sky Blue indicates a fantastic choice, an option you should strongly consider against most others.
Gold is mandatory. It's a very rare rating that denotes something that is so good that you must take it, or you can't call yourself optimized.
Sources:
Access to the Player's Handbook is assumed, although the Fighter class is available in the Basic Rules. Much of the advice here applies to both; if you're using the Basic Rules and you see an option listed that you don't recognize, it's likely in the PHB.
The Dungeon Master's Guide includes lots of optional rules and a few additional. Most of these will not recieve consideration here because they are extremely DM-dependent. For example ,using the rules for flanking or facing changes combat significantly, but it's difficult to know exactly what. However, the DMG does include two optional races which are viable choices for creating Fighter characters. Options from the Dungeon Master's Guide will be denoted (DMG).
In March 2015, Wizards released a free character building supplement online: the Elemental Evil Player's Companion (available at the Wizards website and dndclassics.com). Use of this supplement is up to your DM, but if it's a viable option for your campaign, the races, feat, and additional spells within are worth consideration. Options from the Player's Companion will be marked (EE).
The Unearthed Arcana column releases monthly "playtest" rules content, which your DM may choose to add to your game. Currently two articles contain Fighter-relevant character building content: Eberron and Waterborne Adventures. Options from Unearthed Arcana will be denoted (UA).
I. Introduction
Well, what is a Fighter?
… it’s complicated.
In short, in D&D a Fighter is the class that is best at fighting with weapons and armor. This could be anything from a knight to a gladiator to a champion archer to an arcane warrior.
In First and Second Edition, the Fighter class was quite simple - proficiency with all armor and weapons, the highest hit points, extra attacks at higher levels, and the ability to specialize with certain weapons. Second Edition’s Combat and Tactics brought with it the ability for a Fighter to use special combat maneuvers, but even so the fighter’s options paled to those of a spell-casting Wizard or Cleric.
In Third Edition and 3.5, the Fighter gained a few more options. In addition to proficiencies and multiple attacks at higher levels, the Fighter became the master of combat feats, such as “Power Attack,” “Improved Trip,” and “Combat Reflexes.” In theory, this would allow the Fighter to become a master of martial combat. In practice, it often took the fighter half his or her career to become even moderately proficient at, say, grappling or tripping, and the character was often outclassed, in combat and out, by the sheer magical might of 3E’s super-powered spellcasters. The Tome of Battle later in 3E’s lifespan offered fighter-like classes with more superhuman powers and more effective combat maneuvers, a precursor to the huge revisions of Fourth Edition.
The 4E fighter, revamped to suit the power system of the new edition, was cast as a “Defender,” a class that specialized in soaking up damage and keeping the heat off of his or her more fragile party members. This Fighter received just as many special abilities and tactical tricks as the edition’s Wizards and Clerics. In the “Essentials” revision of 4E’s basic classes, a Fighter option called the Slayer was released to appeal to players wanting a simpler gameplay experience.
Now, in the game’s Fifth Edition, the Fighter attempts to strike a middle ground against the different parts of its legacy. The baseline Fighter gains high hit points, weapon and armor proficiencies, and multiple attacks at higher levels. At third level, Fighters can choose between three subclasses, each leaning toward a specific style of gameplay. The Champion offers simple options with no decision-making involved, appealing toward a player who wants a warrior character without having to make too many decisions. The Battle Master, on the other hand, can choose from a variety of maneuvers that recharge on a short rest, allowing much more tactical versatility. Finally, the Eldritch Knight gains limited spell-casting ability, allowing players to play a “gish” fighter and smoothing multiclassing options for a Fighter/Wizard.
Strengths and Weaknesses
Strengths:
- High, consistent damage output. Extra Attacks and Archetype features contribute toward a significant amount of reliable damage.
- Fighters are darned tough! Wearing the best armor combines well with a d10 hit die and the short rest-dependent Second Wind, allowing Fighters to take quite a lot of damage before they go down.
- Many viable build options. Fighters work well as two-handed damage dealers, archers, sword-and-board tanks, 4E-style polearm Defenders, and even have limited support abilities with the right Battle Master options. Eldritch Knights, especially when multiclassed, can be effective secondary spellcasters while retaining front-line durability.
- Good spike damage. Action Surge combined with multiple extra attacks can lead to some absolutely crazy attack rounds at higher levels.
Weaknesses:
- Reliance on Short Rests. Two of the Fighter’s baseline abilities, Second Wind and Action Surge, recharge on a short rest, as do the Battle Master’s superiority dice. Since 5E’s Short Rests are an hour long, they tend to depend on the adventure being played and thus are somewhat unreliable.
- Weak against hordes of enemies. At high levels, multiple Extra Attacks help with this problem to some degree, as do the Eldritch Knight’s Area of Effect spells, but in general the Fighter will just have to slice through enemies one by one.
- Limited out-of-combat versatility. Lack of access to spells (save for the EK, who mainly gets combat spells), as well as Strength and Constitution’s lack of associated skills (Dexterity fighters fare better), make the Fighter somewhat reliant on other classes to fill in gaps out of combat. Still, the Fighter rates higher here than its previous edition precursors.
Lastly...
A Note About Optimization
The goal of this guide is not to construct the mathematically "perfect" Fighter. It is to provide a list of suggestions for players looking to build an interesting, powerful, and well-rounded character of the Fighter class. Certainly you can go through the guide picking all sky blue options as you go, and if you do so you'll likely end up with a powerful character that contributes to his or her party effectively.
On the other hand, don't underestimate the fun of sub-optimal choices. There are few "trap options" in 5E proper, and so long as you have the basics (14+ in Strength/Dexterity, 12+ in Constitution, a martial weapon*, and decent armor) you will likely be able to contribute to the party effectively. A Noble Fighter with a 16 in Charisma or a Hermit Champion dual-wielder are perfectly viable characters (that sound fun!) even though none of those options are rated above black.
Finally, if you're already playing a Fighter or you've already got your character concept down, this guide can still be useful. Read through and you might be able to find a feat, maneuver, or spell that will make your more effective when you level up, or maybe a better way of expressing the character you wanted to build. You don't have to take all the best options for this guide to be useful.
Have fun playing a Fighter! They're my favorite class and I hope this guide can make your experience with them that much better.
II. Proficiencies, Backgrounds, Attributes, and Class Features
Proficiencies
Armor. You can’t ask for more than all armor and shields.
Weapons. Similarly, simple and martial weapons is where it’s at.
Tools. No tools! Well, unless your background grants them or you spend downtime and GP to learn them.
Saving Throws. Strength saves aren’t too common, but Constitution saves are and protect from some of the nastiest effects in the game (petrification, etc). If you go Eldritch Knight or multiclass into a spellcasting class, this will also greatly help your ability to hold on to Concentration spells.
Skills. Your class gives you two skill picks from the following list (your background will give you more skill proficiencies, as might your race):
- Acrobatics. More useful on a Dex-based Fighter, otherwise Athletics is probably your physical skill of choice - the two are useful in similar situations. Helps you avoid being grappled and shoved in combat (as does Athletics). Regardless, you probably don’t need both.
- Animal Handling. Unlikely to come up too often, but gets better if you are considering a mounted Fighter.
- Athletics. Very versatile skill! Useful in combat (perform/avoid grapples and shoves) as well as for climbing, jumping, or swimming. Less useful if you already have Acrobatics.
- History. Pretty situational, but even when this does come up your Intelligence is probably too average to use this to good effect. More viable for Eldritch Knights, who will likely have a better Intelligence score.
- Insight. Handy enough in social situations to gauge people’s intent, but if you only have room for one social skill the active ones might be a better pick.
- Intimidation. Useful if you want to interact in social situations, although you may have a low Charisma.
- Perception. Your Wisdom might not be the highest, but nevertheless this skill helps you avoid ambushes and contribute to the party’s group checks. A very solid pick.
- Survival. Handy for wilderness exploration games, but it’s possible to go an entire adventure without using this.
Attributes
For most Fighters, a point buy array with two 15s to put in your attack stat and Constitution is the best choice, but many DMs will have you choose the default array or roll for starting stats.
- Strength OR Dexterity. Both are viable as a primary attack stat, but you'll want this attribute to maximize your ability to deal damage with weapons. Your ability score increases should be going toward this attribute at first. Strength is the best for a two-handed attacker, while Dexterity is obviously preferable for an archer; both are viable for dual wielding and sword-and-board fighting styles. Strength Fighters can deal more damage and end up with a higher AC, but Dexterity Fighters have better initiative, better saving throws, and can use Stealth and ranged weapons effectively. This should start at a 16-17 and hit 20 ASAP.
- Constitution. Most fighters are melee combatants, and more hit points lets them stay in combat for longer (and recover more HP with hit dice). In addition, Constitution saving throws allow you to avoid some of the nastiest effects in the game. For an archer, the value of this goes down a little but still remains relevant. Start with a 14-16 and aim for a 20, but if you really want feats you might be able to leave it around 16-18.
- Wisdom. This is most important for minimizing your vulnerability to mental saves - you don't want to get hit with something that takes you out of the fight or worse (dominated!). Better Perception helps too. This will probably sit at 12-14 for most of your career.
- Dexterity OR Strength. The attribute you didn't pick for your attack stat. Note that Dexterity is still useful for Strength-based characters (initiative) but the reverse is not true - Strength only really governs Athletics and carrying capacity, neither of which will be priorities. Dexterity is probably a 10-12; Strength can be easily dumped to an 8.
- Intelligence OR Charisma. Which one depends on your subclass and the skills you are interested in. For Eldritch Knights the value of Intelligence might be higher*, as it's a secondary attack stat for you; for Battlemaster Fighters who plan to take the Rally maneuver Charisma becomes better. Otherwise, pick based on the skills you want to be good at (Int: knowledge, Cha: social) - neither stat is used much for saving throws. Don't expect higher than a 12 here.
- Charisma OR Intelligence. Whatever you didn't pick to be higher. Should be 8-10 for your career.
*Note: Not all Eldritch Knights use Intelligence. If you plan to take attack spells or other spells that require a saving throw (such as illusions and enchantments), then Intelligence is important - if you're just planning to buff yourself with spells like Shield and Misty Step, then it's not very valuable.
Backgrounds
Note that apart from the skills they grant, backgrounds play a relatively small role in CharOp. Compared to choice of feats, archetype, spells, etc. making a “bad” background choice won’t make a huge difference in your character’s effectiveness.
Also note that backgrounds are very flexible and that your DM might be willing to let you swap out a not-so-great skill option.
- Acolyte. Insight is pretty good, Religion is not. Languages probably won't come up that much, although free healing and support from temples is handy.
- Charlatan. Alright for a Dex-based Fighter. but Deception and the tools require good Intelligence and Charisma to be useful. False Identity might or might not come up.
- Criminal/Spy. Stealth is a great skill for a Dex-Fighter, and thieves' tools are an awesome proficiency. The rest requires good social skills to really be applicable, although Criminal Contact could be useful at some point.
- Entertainer/Gladiator. Gladiator is thematically appropriate, and Acrobatics could be good for the Dex-fighter, but the rest won't see a ton of use.
- Folk Hero. Thematic for a Fighter, and Animal Handling/Survival are useful and key off Wisdom, which is likely a decent stat.
- Guild Artisan/Guild Merchant. Insight and Persuasion is a solid social package, although the usual caveat about relevant ability scores comes up. Tools and languages are blah, though.
- Hermit. Medicine and Religion could be the two least useful skills in the game (Medicine is mostly superseded by a Healer’s Kit), and Discovery doesn’t really offer any tangible benefits (great plot hook, though!). A fun flavor choice, but mechanically it’s a dud.
- Noble/Knight. Persuasion is a good skill, but History is often less relevant. Some nice social perks in the language and feature - or if you want a squire to carry your caddy of weapons, this is the background to pick.
- Outlander. Athletics and Survival are good skill picks, and the feature makes you essentially a mini-ranger.
- Sage. Leave this for the high-Intelligence characters in your party - Arcana and History aren’t going to be your forte, and Researcher is pretty situational. Makes more sense for an Eldritch Knight.
- Sailor/Pirate. Athletics and Perception are probably the two best skills for you. The actual sailing-based abilities are more campaign-dependent, though, so you might want to check with your DM before you take this. Also note the Pirate’s Bad Reputation for the chance to be a murderhobo and get away with it.
- Soldier. Athletics and a social skill is a solid foundation, and this is perfectly themed for your abilities as a Fighter.
- Urchin. Great for the Dex-fighter, with Stealth and Thieves’ Tools - this essentially allows you to be a mini-Rogue. Less useful for anyone wearing heavy armor, as this nullifies the benefits of Stealth.
Proficiencies
Level 1
Fighting Style. The Fighter gains several options for fighting style, and you can choose one:
- Archery. A +2 bonus to hit is fantastic, especially with 5E’s Bounded Accuracy and makes this the obvious choice for anyone specializing in ranged weapons.
- Defense. The AC bonus is nice and “always on,” but you only get one pick and the Fighter already has great resilience.
- Dueling. A fantastic damage boost for sword-and-board style Fighters. Despite the name’s implications, this is totally compatible with using a shield.
- Great Weapon Fighting. Also a great damage boost, but for polearm and two-handed weapon users. Note that is more powerful mathematically when you’re rolling 2d6 as opposed to 1d12 (putting the Greatsword and Maul ahead of the Greataxe).
- Protection. This one depends on the party composition, as well as if you have anything else (various Battlemaster maneuvers, Polearm Master/). If you have a vulnerable melee character like a Rogue in your party, this gets better; if you're using your reaction for something else it gets worse. Dueling is more generally useful for shield-bearers, however.
- Two-Weapon Fighting. This is a necessity for Fighters wielding two weapons. However, the damage output of this style starts to fall behind at higher levels and it eats up your bonus action.
-
Mariner. (UA: Waterborne Adventures) Although it's not as strong in combat as Archery or Dueling for Dexterity fighters, having a swim and climb speed is really helpful outside of combat; this is a good second pick for Champions with those styles.
Second Wind. This feature greatly increases your resilience at lower levels, but doesn't scale well at higher levels. If you haven't used this when you take a Short Rest, make sure you do so before spending Hit Dice - it'll regenerate at the end.
Level 2
Action Surge.Taking an extra action once per short rest (twice at 17th level) is incredibly powerful, especially with the extra attacks you gain at higher levels, and allows for incredible spike damage.
Level 5
Extra Attack. The signature feature of the Fighter class. Most martial classes get one extra attack at fifth level, but you're the only one to get another at 11th, and a ridiculous fourth at 20th level.
Level 9
Indomitable. Rerolling a saving throw is nice, but having it happen only once per long rest (gets better as you level up, but so do monsters' abilities) is a little less valuable. Make sure to save this for effects that'll take you out of the fight entirely or kill you.
III. Martial Archetypes
The fifth edition Fighter is a very versatile class, with the ability to play in several different ways. Your choice of Martial Archetype at level 3 can make a serious difference in your playstyle - Champions are easy to play and deal good consistent damage, Battle Masters are versatile and powerful, and Eldritch Knights can cast spells and be effective Fighters.
Champion. For those who primarily enjoy playing a Fighter for the ability to hit things and aren't fond of round-by-round combat decisions, the Champion is the way to go. You get more powerful critical hits, a few skill boosts, a second Fighting Style, and eventually the ability to regenerate hit points - all useful, and none requiring extensive tracking.
- Improved Critical. Critting on a 19-20 instead of a 20 is essentially a small boost to your average damage. It's always on and always useful, but there are specific ways to maximize the effects of this ability - most notably getting Advantage, having better crits (higher weapon damage dice, the Half-Orc's Savage Attacks, Great Weapon Master feat...) and making extra attacks (Two-Weapon Fighting, the haste spell, Polearm Master feat, etc).
- Remarkable Athlete. This feature doesn't seem particularly notable until you realize that initiative is a Dexterity check, so this gives you +2 that goes up to +3 at L13. Other than that, half proficiency on Athletics,Acrobatics, Stealth, etc (you're likely already proficient in some of it). and increased jump distance is pretty meh.
- Additional Fighting Style. You have a few options here. If you don't have the accuracy/damage boosting style (Archery, Dueling, Great Weapon, 2WF) that matches your style, grab it now (sky blue), but if you do, your best bet is probaby Defense. A Dex-fighter might want to consider picking up whichever of Dueling or Archery they haven't already picked for melee/ranged versatility. If you haven't found anything to do with your reaction yet and you use a shield, Protection might be a good choice depending on party composition.
- Superior Critical. Crit on a 18-20 - the Improved Improved Critical. The same goes as for that feature - you can
- Survivor. You can regenerate 5+CON HP on your turn if you're "bloodied" (below half HP). At 18th level, you'll likely have 150+ hit points, so this isn't really strong in combat, but it does ensure you'll enter every fight with at least half health and saves the Cleric some higher-level healing slots.
Battle Master. For those who prefer a more tactical Fighter, the Battle Master offers the option to specialize in several special maneuvers. On the upside, most of the time you'll have better damage and control of a fight than the Champion; on the downside, your resources are still pretty limited (don't expect to include a maneuver with every attack) and you're heavily reliant on Short Rests to use your abilities.
- Combat Superiority. The reason to choose the Battle Master. Let's break it down a little bit: You start with four superiority dice, which refresh on a short or long rest. You can spend the superiority dice to use various maneuvers, many of which add damage and some other effect to a successful attack. Others give you special abilities, like letting an ally make an attack or letting you parry a blow. You learn three manuevers when you get this feature and gain more at higher levels. For information on maneuvers, see section 6 of this guide - note that many are useable with ranged weapons, so this isn't a melee-only Archetype.
- Student of War. A flavor feature only, especially considering Artisan's tool proficiency can be picked up with downtime and money. Pick Calligrapher's supplies for style points.
- Know Your Enemy. Now THIS is a utility feature! You can spend 1 minute sizing someone up, learning whether they're equal, better, or worse than you in their physical abilities, AC, hit points, class levels, or Fighter levels. No other class can do anything like this, and it's useful indefinitely. Always worthwile to determine how powerful your oppostion is before starting a fight, or to learn whether your new butler is actually a highly trained assassin.
- Improved Combat Superiority. Your Superiority Dice get bigger, so your maneuvers get a little better. Not bad.
- Relentless. You start every fight with a minimum of one Superiority Die - this doesn't help much if you like rationing your dice throughout the day, but it does let you "nova" knowing that you'll have dice left over for another fight.
Eldritch Knight. This is the first time the Fighter's had anything like this as a core option - the Eldritch Knight essentially allows you to play a "gish" (warrior/spellcaster hybrid) within. Your spell selection and slots will be limited, but you'll have better AoE options and some really potent defensive spells as well as quite a bit of potential utility. The main disadvantage of the Eldritch Knight is that it requires you to have a good Intelligence score to make good use of your offensive spells, making the fighter more MAD (multiple attribute dependent).
Note also that this subclass lends itself really well to multiclassing with Wizard or another spellcaster, as with it every three Fighter levels counts as a regular spellcaster level. Thus a Figher 12/Wizard 8 has the slots of a 12th level Wizard and the abilities of a 12th level Fighter (2 Extra Attacks, etc.).
- Spellcasting. Again, this feature is the reason to pick Eldritch Knight. You cast spells like a Wizard (i.e. Intelligence), but instead of preparing them ahead of time you can cast from a very limited list of known spells. Your spell slots start out at first level and go to second when you hit level 7, third when you hit level 13, and fourth at level 19. Note that two-thirds of your spells known must come from the Aburation (defense) and Evocation (blasty) schools; however, you can swap out a spell known every level for more versatility. For information on spell selection, see section 7 of this guide.
- Weapon Bond. Looks cool, and you can't be disarmed or have your weapon stolen, but the real value is for any Eldritch Knight without the War Caster feat. You can drop your weapon, cast any spell with a somatic component, and then summon it back to your hand for the cost of only a bonus action!
- War Magic. You can cast a cantrip and make a single weapon attack as a bonus action - this can boost your damage (remember, cantrip damage scale with level) or enable some situational combos such as blade ward + an attack.
- Eldritch Strike. This feature would be better if you had more powerful save-or-suck type spells; as is, it can compensate for your lower Intelligence by giving your opponents disadvantage on their spell saves.
- Arcane Charge. Teleporting when you use Action Surge is a quite nice ability and helps your manuverability. Shame it's only once per short rest.
- Improved War Magic. It's always nice to throw in a weapon attack after casting one of your big spells.
IV. Races
Common Races
Dwarf. In general, Dwarves make good Fighters, with +2 to CON being the main attraction and Darkvision/buffs against poison as bonuses.
Hill Dwarf. An extra hit point each level looks tempting, and +1 WIS isn't bad, but this is only really viable for a Dexterity-based character, because...
Mountain Dwarf. +2 STR, +2 CON is just amazing for any Strength-based fighter. A top-tier option for sure.
Elf. +2 to DEX makes this race a pretty good pick for a finesse or ranged fighter, and Darkvision, Perception proficiency, and buffs against sleep/charm aren't bad.
High Elf. This race can actually be a good pick for Dex-based Eldritch Knights, but for everyone else the +1 INT and cantrip will largely go to waste.
Wood Elf. (Blue) On the other hand, +1 WIS is useful as is a speed increase and hiding buff. Solid choice for Dex-fighters.
Drow. If your game spends any time adventuring outdoors at all, Sunlight Sensitivity (near-constant Disadvantage on attack rolls) kills this as a racial choice. Still not amazing in a campaign limited to dungeons, as +1 CHA and the spells (you have better uses for your action) aren't very useful as well. Superior Darkvision is great for ambushes, though!
Eladrin. (DMG) Misty step every short rest will vastly help your mobility; the Intelligence bonus hardly matters (though it's nice for Eldritch Knights).
Halfling. Also a good choice for a Dex-based fighter. Aside from the +2 DEX, Lucky is the main attraction - rerolling 1s is quite powerful especially with multiple attacks a round.
Lightfoot Halfling. +1 CHA and a Stealth buff (only really useful in combat, and you can't hide except with your action) will won't be used often.
Stout Halfling. On the other hand, +1 CON is quite useful as well as the same poison resistance Dwarves get.
Human. Depends on your GM, but given the right options Humans can be fantastically versatile for any class, including Fighters.
Regular Human. Unfortunately, the "default" human is pretty underwhelming. +1 across the board is almost the same as +1 to your top 2-3 scores - the others just won't make a big difference. Having no other features makes this a suboptimal pick.
Variant Human. On the other hand, if your DM allows feats (which most will), this is a fantastic choice. You don't get +2 to a stat, but you do get your +1 bonuses where you need them, and a feat at first level is an amazing boost (see the Feats section for suggestions). An extra skill is just gravy.
Uncommon Races
Dragonborn. +2 to Strength is a fantastic place to start, and a breath weapon keying off Constitution shores up one of our biggest weaknesses - hordes - by letting us make an effective AoE attack every short rest. Resistance and +1 CHA is nice as well.
Gnome. Gnomes don't have a great chassis for Fighters, as +2 INT doesn't do much for us. However, advantage on saves against magic does help our defenses, and Darkvision ain't bad.
Forest Gnome. +1 DEX can help out for a Dex-fighter and while at-will minor illusion and the Speak to Small Animals abilities don't play to our strengths, they provide a lot of utility. Better for Dex-based Eldritch Knights, as they can use the INT bonus.
Rock Gnome. +1 CON isn't awful, but the tinker's tools aren't nearly as versatile as the Forest Gnome's features. Goes up a little bit for Eldritch Knights.
Deep Gnome. (EE) Similar to the Forest Gnome; Superior Darkvision is a nice ability (and Stone Camoflague can help occasionally), but the ability score bonuses don't line up too well (better for Eldritch Knights though!).
Half-Elf. +1 to two abilitiy scores of our choice is handy, but the other features (even +2 CHA and two skills) don't match up to the impact the Variant Human's feat can have on our build.
Half-Orc. Now here's a solid option! +2 STR and +1 CON is perfectly placed, and Relentless Endurance is an excellent feature for surviving a tough battle. Better crits (combos with the Champion!) and free Intimidation proficiency are great as well.
Tiefling. Ability score bonuses are really bad (+1 INT, +2 CHA), and the other features aren't enough to make up for it. Save Tieflings for your Wizards and Warlocks.
Aasimar. (DMG) The Tielfing's angelic counterpart is hardly better; you're unlikely to use the ability bonuses (+1 WIS, +2 CHA) much and the rest doesn't make up for it. Try the Paladin instead if you want to play this race as a warrior.
Aarakocra. (EE) Flight is an amazing ability for any ranged Fighter (just don't get knocked out and fall!), and the Dexterity bonus synergizes perfectly; the rest is gravy. Suboptimal for a Strength-based Fighter, due to the armor restriction on flight.
Genasi. (EE) A +2 Constitution bonus is a great start for any Fighter, but that's all the base race gets.
Air Genasi. Levitate once per short rest is great, and unlimited breathing doesn't hurt. The Dexterity bonus means this is a pretty good choice for Dex-Fighters.
Earth Genasi. Pass without Trace is a powerful stealth ability, and Earth Walk helps your mobility. Heavily armored Fighters can use the Strength bonus.
Fire Genasi. You don't have as much use for Intelligence, although resistance, darkvision, and a free cantrip are all nice. Once you hit third level, a Constitution-based burning hands spell will help clear out weak foes.
Water Genasi. Similarly, Wisdom doesn't help you much, but the swimming speed gives you superior mobility and acid resistance is nice. You might be able to get some use out of shape water and create or destroy water... occasionally.
Goliath. (EE) Similar to the Half-Orc, your ability score bonuses (+2 STR, +1 CON) are great and it only gets better. Athletics is a great skill to get for free, Stone's Endurance helps your resiliance at lower levels, and if your DM cares about encumberance, you'll never be affected by it.
Changeling. (UA: Eberron) Disguising yourself at will is a neat trick, and the +1 DEX means you gain some fighting ability. This would be a good race for a social Fighter in Eberron.
Shifter. (UA: Eberron) A +1 DEX bonus and Darkvison isn't bad, and the temporary HP bonus from shifting makes for a durable Fighter.
Beasthide. +1 CON and an AC bonus while shifting makes this a great choice for a Dex-fighter, especially one that wants to mix it up in melee.
Cliffwalk. An additional +1 DEX isn't bad, but the climb speed while shifting won't always matter.
Longstride. Dashing as a bonus action while shifting makes this race very manuverable, and the additional +1 DEX supports a ranged Fighter well.
Longtooth. A +1 STR is a bit mismatched with the +1 DEX, and the bite attack is only strong for grappling builds. Still, the baseline shifter makes this an OK choice.
Razorclaw. Attacking with your bonus action is great, although a base of 1 damage won't get you very far. Still, a decent choice for Dexterity fighters that don't plan to use their bonus action for anything else.
Wildhunt. This race is built for trackers; the +1 WIS won't help you too much in combat. Not bad for a skills-based build, though.
Warforged. (UA: Eberron) +1 STR and +1 CON are a nice start, and the constant +1 AC bonus isn't bad. That's all you get, though, so this is a bit of a boring (but solid) choice.
Minotaur. (UA: Waterborne Adventures) You'll generally want to choose the additional +1 STR here (for a total bonus of +2), but things only get better from here. Your horns mean you can wield a shield while attacking for d10 damage (hint: choose the Dueling fighting style), and the Goring Rush (bonus action attack while dashing) and Hammering Horns (bonus action shove 5' while attacking) abilies give you a ton of combat flexibility. Navigational skills never hurt anyone either.
V. Feats
The Fighter actually gets more Ability Score Improvements than any other class - one at levels 4, 6, 8, 12, 14, 16, and 19. This means you can get the stat bonuses you need early on while having some room.
Generally speaking, increasing your attack stat is a great option compared to taking most feats and increasing Constitution is pretty good. The other scores basically go down one rating compared to their rating in Section II as well. This means that the optimal path is generally to focus on taking your attack stat to 20 (with a possible "fighting style" feat like Great Weapon Master or Sentinel mixed in), then rounding out your build with various feats with Constitution increases mixed in. This is also why the Variant Human is so good - you can get a head start on build-related feats without sacrificing your attack stat.
Alert. An improved Improved Initiative is already solid, and immunity to surprise plus defense against hidden attacks helps you quite a lot. Probably not the first feat you take, but sure to be a good, helpful pick.
Athlete. You'll only ever want this if you have an odd Strength or Dexterity, and while the mobility benefits are a nice perk they pale in comparison to Heavy Armor Master or Resilient (Dex).
Actor. The secondary benefits are nice but the Charisma bonus is largely a waste unless you're playing a particularly social fighter.
Charger. This won't come into play often, and the damage bonus or shove pales in comparison to your Extra Attacks and Action Surge.
Crossbow Expert. This feat lets you use your multiple attacks with crossbows and helps for the archer who gets engaged in melee, but that's not why we take it. It gives a bonus action attack when wielding a hand crossbow - kind of like Two-Weapon fighting, except you get your ability score modifier by default (freeing up your Fighting Style) and you can wield a shield in your other hand. The final straw? This is compatible with Sharpshooter's damage bonus, making it amazing all-around for anyone pursuing this build.
Defensive Duelist. If you're a finesse melee fighter with no other uses for your reaction, this can provide a situational but strong survivability boost. Not good against multiattackers or hordes, but wonderful against high-damage solo monsters.
Dual Wielder. Dual wielding still isn't competitive damage-wise with two-handed or dueling styles, but this feat helps while boosting your AC and letting you play the double-longsword wielder you've always dreamed of.
Dungeon Delver. Can be better in the right (dungeon-y) adventure/campaign or worse in the wrong one. Even so, you're probably not the party member to deal with traps - leave it to the high Intelligence and Wisdom characters with Expertise.
Durable. If you have an odd score in Constitution, the perk from this feat isn't bad, especially if you take a lot of short rests. If you have a really high Constitution anyway - 17 or 19 - this gets better
Elemental Adept. 100% useless for everyone except Eldritch Knights, but they won't have enough spells to make this work at all anyway.
Grappler. Obviously useless if you're Dexterity-based or don't plan on grappling. For the grappler fighter, though, the ability to take on bigger creatures* and advantage on grappling checks can help out. Note that Restrained is totally superceded by Shoving your enemy prone (they can't get up while you're grappling them). You'll probably want Tavern Brawler first, though.
Great Weapon Master. A free bonus action attack on a kill/crit is great. The ability to increase your damage by decreasing your accuracy is awesome (if somewhat situational)! Many monsters in 5E have a low AC but high HP; this allows you to take advantage of that. Together, this feat is near mandantory for a two-handed weapon wielder at some point.
Healer. Though it doesn't help you do your job in a fight, this feat really helps party survivability at low levels. Not bad if you want to fill a secondary support role.
Heavily Armored. The only way this could possibly be relevant is if you didn't start as a Fighter... in which case this isn't a bad pick if you're Strength-based.
Heavy Armor Master. Resisting three damage from every nonmagical weapon hit is ridonkulous early on (particularly as a Human Variant bonus at first level), but gets worse as you level up. However, the Strength bonus means this is a great pick if you are Strength-based and have an odd Strength score. Also note this is better for two-weapon wielders, as they tend to get hit more and don't have many other defensive options.
Inspiring Leader. If you have a good Charisma, this can help power up your party with a "pep talk" before battles - not the strongest, but very flavorful.
Keen Mind. Boosts Intelligence, making this questionable in the first place, but the benefits here are so situational as to be almost useless even for character that use INT.
Lightly Armored. Literally useless - you're already proficient.
Linguist. In the right campaign it can be useful to know extra languages and create written cyphers, but you probably won't have a great use for the INT bonus.
Lucky. Luck points give you a "panic button" when things aren't going well, and since you make a lot of attack rolls you'll be able to get full use out of this feat. Limited uses per day are the biggest drawback here, so make them count!
Mage Slayer. Somewhat campaign-dependent, but can be overpowering against the right opponents. Eldritch Knights with Counterspell and Dispel Magic (along with Misty Step/Arcane Charge to get in close) can use this to utterly shut down enemy spellcasters.
Magic Initiate. The main attraction here is the ability to pick up a first-level spell like Hex, which boosts your damage per round by quite a bit; your ranged attacks will probably supercede any attack cantrips. Limited use per day makes this less appealing, however.
Martial Adept. Gives you extra maneuvers and one more Superiority Die, which is a d6 if you're not a Battle Master. Gives you some tactical versatility, but there are better options.
Medium Armor Master. This is only really good for characters with a 16 Dexterity that isn't increasing who really want to sneak around... who won't be very common. Mixing Strength and Dexterity isn't very optimal, although if you choose to do so this feat is pretty helpful.
Mobile. Does what it says on the tin by allowing you to attack many different creatures without drawing opportunity attacks when you move away, along with a movement speed bonus. With 5E's lack of focus on a grid, this isn't as useful as it could be.
Moderately Armored. You already are.
Mounted Combatant. Strong effects if you plan on fighting on a mount (constant advantage is fantastic!), but in many typical D&D adventures
Observant. If you want to bump your Intelligence or Wisdom by 1 and you already have Resilient (Wisdom), this would probably be the pick - better passive Perception and Investigation helps a fair bit and reading lips isn't useless.
Polearm Master. This gives you a d4 Bonus Action attack with a polearm that adds your ability modifier - that's a big boost to damage. The ability to provoke opportunity attacks from creatures within 10 feet is also incredibly strong and gives you a great use for your reaction.
Resilient (Wisdom). Shoring up your mental defenses is extremely important and the +1 to Wisdom might not hurt either.
Resilient (Dexterity). Though Dexterity saves are less likely to cripple you in a fight should you fail them, helping your defenses here and getting a +1 bonus is a good option.
Resilient (Intelligence, Charisma). These saves and scores don't come up often enough to be useful, but if you're stuck for a way to even up that odd score there are worse ways to do it.
Ritual Caster. The ability to use rituals can be quite strong but is also campaign-dependent - Alarm, Detect Magic, Find Familiar, and Unseen Servant can all be useful at lower levels, and at higher ones you get stuff like Leomund's Tiny Hut and Water Walk. Choose Wizard for utility spells or Cleric for divination abilities. Becomes pretty bad if your DM isn't cooperative with letting you pick up more rituals while you adventure.
Savage Attacker. Your reliance on multiattacking makes this a fairly lackluster damage booster.
Sentinel. If you want to play a "Defender" style Fighter from 4E, this is the way to do it. Shutting down enemies' mobility and punishing them for attacking your allies helps you deal damage and keeps your party alive. This probably ties with Polearm Master as the best use of your reaction.
Sharpshooter. The damage boost at the expense of accuracy here is just as good as it is on Great Weapon Master, and the other features (ignoring long rance and cover) aren't half bad either.
Shield Master. The shield bonuses on Dexterity saves here are comparable with proficiency in that save, and knocking an enemy prone/back with a bonus action is fantastic (and boosts your damage)**. Also very strong in the grappler build.
Skilled. Skill proficiencies are hard to come by, but there are often better options for your feat. Can go a long way toward increasing your versatility if you choose carefully, though.
Skulker. Not bad for the stealthy Dex-based ranged/ambush Fighter, letting you "hide in shadows" and snipe repetedly from hiding. Not as good if you already have darkvision, which many races do.
Spell Sniper. You're better off using a ranged or thrown weapon. Better for the Eldritch Knight who has a reason to attack with cantrips.
Tavern Brawler. The Strength bonus isn't bad but the real feature here is the ability to grapple as a bonus action while dealing decent fist damage. Obviously bad if you aren't making a grappler, although proficiency with improvised weapons might come up.
Tough. A bonus to Constitution is probably better because it boosts saves, but if you don't find yourself being targeted by a lot of Con-save effects or your Consitution is already 20 this gives you plenty more hit points.
War Caster. Obviously useless for non-casting Fighters, but the Eldritch Knight can use the ability to hold on to Concentration spells and casting spells as opportunity attacks, as well as wielding a shield with his or her other hand and retaining somatic spellcasting.
Weapon Master. You're already proficient in all weapons.
Svirfneblin Magic (EE; only available to Deep Gnome characters). Nondetection is nearly useless most of the time, but blur is a great in-combat buff, and blindness/deafness and disguise self are also solid spells you can make use of.
*As written, the third part of the feat is useless as you can grapple Large-size creatures by default anyway without their automatically escaping.Your DM might rule that it allows you to grapple even bigger creatures, in which case this becomes great.
**Some debate exists on whether you can use this before actually taking the Attack action. Ask your DM.
VI. Maneuvers (Battle Master)
Maneuvers are the bread and butter of the Battle Master subclass. You gain three when you first pick up the archetype, and two more at seventh, tenth, and fifteenth level. That gives you some freedom with your picks, as most maneuvers are inherently situational, but you'll still want to have something you can use in any given situation.
One thing that's important to consider when picking maneuvers is the action they'll use, if any. If you already have a use for your bonus action (two-weapon fighting) or reaction (Protection style, Polearm Master feat) then it's best to pick manuevers that don't compete for that action. On the other hand, if you don't have a use for either of those actions, feel free to take a manuever that uses one of those - it makes better use of your action economy.
Maneuvers which only work with in melee are marked with a star* beside them. Generally speaking, the Battle Master can be a great archer Archetype - you gain all kinds of cool trick shots, and with careful selection you can gain the best of the maneuver list.
One final note - maneuver damage dice are doubled on critical hits! If you crit, it might be a great time to spend a Superiority Die.
Commander's Strike. The value of this maneuver ranges quite a bit - it goes from nearly useless if the party has no weapon attackers other than you to amazing with a great single-target damage dealer like a Rogue in the party. Keep in mind that it takes up one of your attacks, your bonus action, and the target's reaction, so by default this isn't a great option - it just offers a lot of versatility.
Disarming Attack. Shutting down a single melee attacker can be a strong way to use a Superiority Die. Make sure to use your free "interacting with an object" action to kick away the target's weapon (or pick it up if you have a free hand), otherwise they can pick it up on their next turn without having to Disengage or take opportunity attacks. If your DM rules that this is ineffective for some reason, this maneuver becomes nearly useless.
Distracting Strike. You set an ally up for advantage on their next attack. Can be quite strong, particularly with a Rogue (auto-Sneak Attack) in the party, but its usefulness drops as you gain levels and most of your allies have more attacks.
Evasive Footwork. This helps you evade opportunity attacks, but it's no guarantee and eats up your extra damage. Better for archers who find themselves stuck in melee.
Feinting Attack.* Advantage on your next attack is nice, but this uses your bonus action and doesn't guarantee damage. You're better off with Trip Attack, especially with multiple attacks at higher levels or Action Surge. On the off chance you're multiclassing from a spell-casting class, this can help your powerful attack roll spells like Contagion hit.
Goading Attack. Would be a strong choice, but it's usually worse than Menacing Attack, which protects you as well and restricts the target's movement. Does have some value against creatures immune or resistant to fear - also note that this is effective at range if the target can't get to you.
Lunging Attack.* Five feet of reach on your turn is too situational to be useful - a little better when you already have a polearm but still not very good.
Maneuvering Attack. Very useful when you need to pull an ally out of a bad situation, and can help move them into attacking position as well.
Menacing Attack. Fear gives your enemy disadvantage on attacks (and ability checks) as long as they can see you, and prevents them from moving closer to you as well. Protects you and your party!
Parry.* Helps mitigate damage - a good one to pull out if your back is to the wall. Relies on Dexterity, so not a good choice for Fighters without it.
Precision Attack. This one doesn't appear to add extra damage, but then you realize it can be used to turn misses into hits. Even better for Sentinels that stop movement on a successful opportunity attack.
Pushing Attack. Shoving an enemy 15 feet is a useful tool to have in your box, particularly if your DM loves precipices and lava pits. Note that you can always give up an attack to take the Shove action, which moves them 5 feet. Less useful if you have the Shield Master feat, but still shoves much farther.
Rally. Damage mitigation for the squishies (or other tank) on your team, and the only good reason for the Battle Master to have a solid Charisma. It does tie up your bonus action, though.
Riposte.* An extra attack - plus Superiority Die damage - on a reaction is amazing and useful in just about any fight. Obviously competes for other uses of your reaction.
Sweeping Attack.* Helps against hordes, but there are much better characters for dealing AoE damage and your superiority die alone won't drop most CR 1/2 creatures or higher. Can take down an already injured creature, however.
Trip Attack. Mediocre until you get your second attack, but Advantage on an entire attack routine, especially an Action Surged one, adds loads to your damage while restricting mobility and possibly helping a teammate. Serves a different purpose for Archers - you'll want to finish your routine with this, as it'll give you disadvantage on ranged attacks but slow down anyone trying to reach you. Any fighter can give up an attack to Shove and knock a creature prone, but this is much more efficient. Note that this is mostly redundant for fighters with the Shield Master feat and the Strength/Athletics bonus to use it.
VII. Spells (Eldritch Knight)
Fighters who choose the Eldritch Knight subclass gain the ability to learn a limited number of spells from the Wizard spell list. Most of these spells are required to come from the Abjuration (protection) and Evocation (blast-y) schools, but over the EK's career that character can learn up to four spells from non-Abjuration and Evocation schools. At third level, an Eldritch Knight picks up two cantrips (from any school) and three first-level spells (one of which can be from another school), learning another spell roughly every other level and another cantrip at level 10. Spell slots start with two level 1 slots at third level and increase to one level 4 slot at 20th level - hardly an amazing progression! The character can swap out a spell known for another one every level, granting the EK some versatility, but an EK is still guaranteed to be very limited in both slots and spells known.
When building an Eldritch Knight, you can choose to either ignore or prioritize Intelligence. Having a good Intelligence score makes your saving throw and attack roll spells more powerful, but will make you less effective in other areas if you have to move points or a good roll to Intelligence. On the other hand, building an EK that dumps INT is a perfectly acceptable choice but makes some spell options less viable. To this end, spells that rely on your Intelligence score (usually, they use a save or an attack roll) are marked with an asterisk (*) next to them. These spells might not be a good choice if your Intelligence score is low, as they are less likely to be effective. A few spells are marked with a double asterisk (**) - this means they may have a save DC or attack roll involved, but the spell's utility doesn't hinge on that score.
When picking spells, it's important to compare them to your baseline Fighter features. Single-target attack spells are usually not worth taking, as your baseline melee attacks should be nearly as powerful and there's no reason to spend a spell slot doing what you can already manage without it. Bonus action spells are something to look for, as you can use them while making your regular Extra Attacks. Concentration spells are a little worse for a melee EK, as you are likely to get hit a lot, but many of the best buff spells are Concentration, so they might be worth picking anyway - your good Constitution saves will help here as well. Finally, keep an eye out for cantrips that will work with your War Magic feature and, later in your career, spells that you'll want to cast with Eldritch Strike (imposing disadvantage on saving throws) or Improved War Magic.
Cantrips
In general, damage cantrips are inferior to your regular attacks, but with the War Magic feature some become viable options - especially those that call for saving throws, as they benefit from Eldritch Strike. Having a ranged cantrip can increase the effective range of a Strength-based character (100' is a long distance), but they'll deal less damage than a javelin or handaxe attack at medium range. Dexterity-based EKs should have a bow or crossbow, so ranged cantrips have limited utility.
Utility cantrips are typically okay picks, especially because many EKs don't want to be using War Magic (especially those who didn't prioritize Intelligence).
Acid Splash.* Dealing damage to two creatures is good, and you can cast this while in melee without incurring damage. A solid pick for War Magic.
Blade Ward. A turn's resistance to weapon damage as an action is usually terrible, but with War Magic you can cast this while still dealing damage - good if you plan on taking a lot of damage one round. Obviously not as useful for primarily ranged characters.
Chill Touch.* This has situational benefits against undead and regenerating creatures. The damage is inferior to your regular weapon attacks, though, so unless you plan on fighting lots of undead and trolls there are better choices.
Dancing Lights. Most races have Darkvision, Light is more effective at illuminating an area, Minor Illusion can serve the same purpose as a distraction, this requires Concentration, and it isn't even useful in combat. Pick something else.
Fire Bolt.* The ranged damage from this won't outmatch a bow or crossbow wielded by a Dex-based character, but it can be a decent backup for long-ranged fights.
Friends. Doesn't call for a saving throw, but the drawback means it's only good in situations where you don't mind the target being hostile later. Still has a lot of utility for interrogating prisoners or quick social checks.
Light. A useful effect with good duration, but most races have Darkvision anyway. Given your low number of cantrips, you should probably pick something else.
Mage Hand. Short-range telekinesis is a good utility effect to have around - it'll come in handy for navigating trapped situations or circumnavigating movement restrictions (pulling a lever on the far side of a chasm).
Mending. You can fix things if you take a minute to cast this, but the effect is limited enough that it'll very rarely come up. Pick something else.
Message. Sending short-ranged messages is useful, but the Fighter is unlikely to be a scout or spy who will use this. If you are, this is better.
Minor Illusion. The ability to create small illusions or ghost sounds has endless applications for a creative player.
Poison Spray.* Probably the best option for a War Magic melee character. This can actually increase your damage a fair bit once you get Eldritch Strike, and the 10 foot range helps out too.
Prestidigitation. Lots of utility effect options, but most won't come up much outside of flavor. Still, a creative player can accomplish a fair bit with the many effects this spell has to choose from.
Ray of Frost.* Slowing an enemy's movement can be useful, but your weapon attacks will deal more damage at anything but long range.
Shocking Grasp.* Depriving certain enemies of their reaction can be quite useful, but Poison Spray deals more damage in melee. If your game centers on fighting armored enemies, this becomes a better War Magic option.
True Strike. Advantage is usually worse than the 2+ attacks you're giving up, and the delayed effect combined with Concentration makes this practically worthless even with War Magic.
Level 1 Spells
Abjuration/Evocation (Available at L3)
Alarm. Warding a campsite can come in handy, and it's a rare utility spell in the Abjuration/Evocation options. If you have a ritual caster in the party that can use this, let them take it.
Burning Hands.* A decent area of effect that can damage multiple creatures and scales. Be careful where you cast this, however - you don't want to hurt your allies.
Chromatic Orb.* Requires an expensive material component, and the variable damage doesn't compensate for this being more-or-less inferior to your standard attacks.
Mage Armor. This is better than studded leather for Dexterity-based EKs, but ties up a spell slot. A better option as you level up and have more slots to spare, although you'll want to swap it out if you ever find +1 armor or better. Useless for anyone who wears medium or heavy armor.
Magic Missile. Auto-damage that can target anyone on the battlefield looks tempting, but unfortunately it's just not worth it compared to standard weapon attacks.
Protection from Evil and Good. This is a concentration buff and very specific - it's totally useless when you aren't fighting abberations, celestials, elementals, fey, fiends, and undead. However, the effect when fighting those creatures (disadvantage to hit the targeted creature and immunity to several conditions) is extremely strong. Your best option is probably to learn this when you level up if you suspect you'll need it in an upcoming adventure, and then "retrain" it once you are done with that adventure.
Shield. Gaining +5 to your armor class as a reaction is very strong, and this is one of the better reasons to be an Eldritch Knight at low levels. However, note that without the War Magic feat you'll need to have a hand empty to cast this, meaning you need to stow either a shield (-2 AC) or your weapon (giving up the chance to make opportunity attacks) to use it. If you know you're about to take a big hit or multiple small ones, it's worth it - just remember that this won't always be the best option.
Thunderwave.* This can hit your allies, but you're durable enough to wade into a thicket of creatures and cast this to destroy their positioning. Also good as a backup option for archers who get surrounded. If you plan to do a lot of sneaking, this could be a bad choice as it makes a loud noise and gives away your position.
Witch Bolt.* The initial damage from this isn't going to beat your weapon attack, and the concentration effect is a terrible use of your concentration (and liable to be broken easily).
Non-Abjuration/Evocation (Available at L3)
Charm Person.* This can be a potent spell for social interaction - just keep in mind that the creature will know it's been charmed afterwards.
Color Spray.* The effect here is not strong and you can already get Area of Effect evocation spells.
Comprehend Languages. Not worth your slot - this just won't come up often enough, and it can be done by ritual casters for virtually free.
Detect Magic. Nearly every caster can do this for a lower opportunity cost than you can. If there isn't a Bard, Cleric, Druid, Sorceror, or Wizard in your party, it's a handy effect to have around.
Disguise Self. This allows all kinds of tricksterism, but unless you have a high Charisma you won't be able to do too much with it.
Expeditious Retreat. Concentration hurts this spell, but a bonus action to move your speed can really boost your manuverability. Worse if you already have a bonus action that you use regularly (ex. Two-Weapon Fighting, Polearm Master).
False Life. The temporary hit points from this don't scale fast enough to be remotely effective.
Feather Fall. Situational, but when you need it you really need it.
Find Familiar. A scout that you can communicate with telepathically is pretty strong, and it can even deliver touch spells for you!
Fog Cloud. The cover from this can hurt you as well as help you, and Concentration isn't great. You might be able to find a use for this, though, particularly if you do a lot of hiding.
Grease.* Gives you some area control, and knocking enemies prone certainly helps your ability to hit. On the other hand, your evocations can cover AoE and this takes up your utility slot.
Identify. You won't use this much and the effect generally isn't useful in any case, as you can identify an item simply by spending a short rest with it by default. Take Ritual Caster if nobody else in your party can cast this and you want it.
Illusory Script. Not worth your limited slots, particularly without a spellbook to protect. Save it for the Wizards or Ritual Casters.
Jump. With a high Strength, this will let you Long Jump something like 25' and high jump 10'+, or double that given a 10' running start. Obviously this helps your manuverability, but remember that jumping costs movement, so you'll have to Dash to take advantage of it. Concentration doesn't help much either.
Longstrider. Adding ten feet to your speed for an hour isn't likely to matter much, although no Concentration is a boost over Expeditious Retreat if it matters.
Ray of Sickness.* Debuffs a single target... maybe. The damage and effect from this isn't worth it.
Silent Image.** This has endless applications for a creative player - setting up ambushes (hide behing an illusory wall!), tricking (stupid) creatures, "adding" to your forces in battle...
Sleep. This is actually very powerful for a Wizard, but since you're a few spellcasting levels behind the hit point scaling doesn't hold up and you're unlikely to hit more than one creature - which could be an ally! Stick to evocation spells.
Tasha's Hideous Laughter.* Single-target debuff that requires Concentration... stick to your damage spells. Better for an archer, as you're less likely to get hit and this lets you tie one creature down while attacking another.
Tenser's Floating Disk. Not a terrible utility, but situational - better for Wizards or Ritual Casters who have the spellbook space to spare.
Unseen Servant. This is a pretty versatile utility spell. It can set off traps from a distance (Servant, open that probably-trapped chest over there!) or just help you out in roleplaying situations. This overlaps some with Mage Hand and Prestidigitation, so if you already have one of those two cantrips the value of this is diminished.
Level 2 Spells
Abjuration/Evocation (Available at L7)
Arcane Lock. This is technically a utility spell in your abjuration/evocation slots, but locking things will almost certainly not come up often enough to make this worth it.
Continual Flame. Again, this is technically a utility spell, but the effect costs 50 GP to produce and isn't any better for you than the light cantrip (which some characters and parties won't want anyway). However, if you don't have that cantrip it might be worth taking this for one level to produce a bunch of continual flames, since they never go away.
Darkness. This can occasionally shut down archers and other ranged creatures (until they move out of it), but without a way to function in the darkness yourself, it's not that useful.
Gust of Wind.* This... actually isn't bad. It's not the strongest combat spell, but the applications of clearing airborne effects and pushing (and keeping) away creatures and objects in a wide line are widespread, and you can keep it up for a minute. Given the other options available at this level, it's worth considering.
Melf's Acid Arrow.* This suffers from the same problem as other single-target damage spells - it just isn't as good as your standard attacks. Nice to have against trolls, but a torch will do in a pinch.
Scorching Ray.* Despite the good, splittable damage this spell deals, it's (as usual) typically inferior to weapon attacks. Great for Sorcerors and Wizards (who get this at level 3!), but us Fighters have better options.
Shatter.* Not a terrible area-of-effect damage spell, and easier to position than a level-equivalent Thunderwave - plus, this is powerful against pesky inorganic objects like some traps (firebreathing statues, anyone?) and Gargoyles. On the downside, it has the same drawback as Thunderwave (makes a loud noise) and doesn't deal tons of damage at this level, so you'll only really want it against big groups of creatures.
Non-Abjuration/Evocation (Available at L8)
Alter Self. This is essentially a more versatile but higher level verson of Disguise Self, which allows swimming and a backup natural weapon (which won't come up often, given that you are very hard to disarm). Given that you can swap out a spell every level, this one might be a good choice if you anticipate an aquatic adventure.
Blindness/Deafness.* This competes with Hold Person as the single-target debuff of choice for level 2. This can target any creature that needs its senses to function and doesn't require concentration, but Hold Person is a more powerful effect and fewer monsters will resist it. Given that at levels 8+ you probably won't fight many powerful humanoids, this is probably the better choice. That said, shutting down a single target may not be the best use of your single non-Abjuration/Evocation spell for this level.
Blur. It requires your concentration to maintain, but disadvantage on attacks against you is a fantastic bonus for you given your likely high armor class in the first place. Cast this before a battle and laugh as the monsters whiff over and over.
Cloud of Daggers. This is one of the few no-save (or attack roll) damage spells, and it could potentially combo with grappling (hold them in the cloud!), but taking a damage spell here (that uses Concentration, to boot!) is just not worth it when so many Evocation options are available.
Crown of Madness.* This takes a humanoid creature out of the fight, but ties up your actions and Concentration. Not worth it - choose Blindness/Deafness or Hold Person if you want this effect.
Darkvision. If you're a human or another creature without Darkvision, this isn't a bad spell, but you don't have enough picks to make it worth it unless you really need to be stealthy in the dark. Take Light as a cantrip or poach off another party member with more known spells.
Detect Thoughts.** This is actually a really handy utility effect to have around - it can scan an area for creatures or function as a lie detector/trump card in roleplaying scenes (who will suspect the Fighter of reading minds?). Plus, it's really handy for solving mysteries. Keep in mind that this doesn't need
Enlarge/Reduce.** As a combat buff, this spell is fairly unimpressive (and requires concentration) - but if you're planning to Grapple, it's absolutely amazing, giving you advantage on checks as well as the ability to grapple Huge creatures (like adult dragons!) Reduce isn't bad for utility, but if you're planning to sneak you'll want Invisibility and there are much better debuffs. In short, the spell is versatile but mediocre in all of its applications except grappling.
Flaming Sphere.* This would be great if it were a Evocation spell. As is, it can add to your damage (moving the sphere is a bonus action) while helping to deal with multiple opponents - but the opportunity cost here is too high, given that you can deal AoE damage with your evocations and this uses concentration.
Gentle Repose. Save it for the Wizard, Cleric, or ritual caster. You've got better things to do with your known spells than preserve corpses.
Hold Person.* This can shut down a single opponent and make it easy for you (and your team) to lay into them, but you first recieve it at eighth level, where it's less likely that you'll be fighting powerful humanoid creatures. This also requires concentration, so most of the time Blindness/Deafness is better for you - and that's if you want a single-target debuff at all.
Invisibility. Whether you cast this on yourself or someone else, invisibility is a powerful effect to have around for scouting, spying, or setting up an ambush.
Knock. Opening locks isn't bad, but this spell gives away your position. Might be taking if you think it'll come up and no one else in your party can handle locks, but there are plenty of better options.
Levitate.** Vertical mobility is handy to have around, and could be especially useful for an archer character who wants to "get above it all," or for springing an ambush (no one ever looks up!). In a pinch, this can also take a melee-focused monster out of a fight in the right circumstances.
Locate Object. This is a neat spell, but it's not likely to be useful in a lot of situations. You might be better off letting the Wizard handle this one, or making some good old-fashioned Investigation rolls. On the other hand, if you know you'll need it, there's nothing wrong with picking this up for one level..
Magic Mouth. Magical messages just aren't the best use of your limited known spells. Save this for the Wizards and ritual casters.
Magic Weapon. Obviously, this spell is pretty useless if your weapon is already magical. That said, if you don't have a magic weapon and you're fighting the right kind of creature, this can be a godsend. Just don't forget to retrain it when you pick up an actual magic weapon.
Mirror Image. This competes with Blur as one of the best defensive spells an Eldritch Knight can pick up - it can absorb several attacks completely, and it doesn't require concentration. Not so good against multiattackers, however - Blur is better in those situations.
Misty Step. This is a fantastic spell for mobility in the middle of combat. You can hop to the right side of a crowded battle, escape a grapple, catch a fleeing enemy, "jump" to hit or grapple a flying foe (DM permitting), teleport past the enemy's front line into the middle of their archers, or bypass an impassable obstacle like a chasm. Don't forget that this uses your bonus action, so you can still take a regular move before or after the teleport.
Nystul's Magic Aura. Fighters aren't meant to be magic item con artists. This spell is unlikely to be useful often - let the Wizard take it if you absolutely have to make that old boot detect as magical.
Phantasmal Force.* For a straightforward way to shut down a single foe in combat, look at Blindness/Deafness or Hold Person. For a fun way to shut down an enemy in combat (or anywhere else), take this spell. You can be very creative with the illusions thus created - set off a false alarm in a different part of the guarded fortress, or make the villain think the cliff face extends further back than it really does. And best of all, you can even deal damage with the spell itself without using your action (though it does take concentration).
Ray of Enfeeblement.* This makes a target's attacks weaker - or you can just kill it with your weapons. Not a great use of your action or Concentration.
Rope Trick. This essentially lets the party take a short rest or hide for an hour - anywhere, anytime. It also functions as a "poor man's Levitate," creating a suspended climbing rope. Not a bad trick to have in your back pocket, although it's not the most exciting use of your spells.
See Invisibility. It's not bad to be able to see invisible creatures, but there are really better things to do with your spells and this probably won't come up too often.
Spider Climb. You can walk on ceilings! Levitate is probably better most of the time, but this does give you better manuverability in odd environments.
Suggestion.* This spell can be very powerful if used creatively. It can take out an easily-tricked foe entirely ("Take a swim in that lake of acid - I mean, water!") or push minions into irrational decisions that can throw a whole plot, lair, or organization into chaos ("The boss needs you to let all the prisoners out of their cells! No, I don't know why - he's just been very irrational lately.").
Web.* This spell can control a battlefield quite effectively if placed correctly, locking down large groups of creatures (sometimes for multiple rounds). Requires concentration, but the effect can turn the tide of a battle.
Level 3 Spells
Abjuration/Evocation (Available at L13)
Counterspell.* Although you will be less effective at this then a Wizard, the ability to shut down a spellcasting enemy with just your reaction is still extremely powerful, and at the level you recieve this many enemies will be casting spells. The Eldritch Knight can be one of the most effective "mage slayers" in the game because of this spell and Dispel Magic.
Dispel Magic.* Though buff spells aren't as strong in this edition, the ability to disrupt an enemy's magical bonuses is pretty valuable. Though you'll use it less often in combat than the comparable Counterspell, this spell also shines when disarming magical traps and ending other dangerous or inconveniencing magical effects.
Fireball.* AoE damage still isn't amazing for you, but when you're confronted by a horde of angry orcs a good old-fashioned ball of flame is often the best response.
Glyph of Warding.* Warding an area or object (which must remain stationary, so the "I prepared Explosive Runes today" tactic is ineffective) is unlikely to come up often, and the spell is expensive to cast. There are better options at this level.
Leomund's Tiny Hut. This spell lets you safely take a Long Rest in adverse conditions or in enemy territory - a good effect to have around! If you use this in a place where you can be discovered, though, beware of creatures who will set an ambush for you when the spell ends. Also note that you can snipe creatures safely from within the dome with missile weapons, although your DM may rule otherwise.
Lightning Bolt.* Again, AoE damage isn't always amazing for you, but it's not bad to have around. Although fewer creatures resist lightning damage, this spell is much harder to catch multiple creatures in than Fireball (hence its lower rating).
Magic Circle.* This spell lets you ward an area from the same categories of creatures as described in the Protection from Evil and Good spell. Unfortunately, it takes a minute to set up and has the potential to be totally useless for many of your adventures. Might be worth learning for a level if you're taking a trip to Hell or somewhere similar, though.
Nondetection. Hiding someone from divination magic promises to be very situational, which you can't really afford given your limited spells known. If you need it, you can retrain into it, but unless your campaign features lots of evil diviners, this isn't worth taking for the most part.
Protection from Energy. If you know what you're up against (prime example: dragons!), this spell can shut down some foes' best attacks. Although it uses Concentration, this spell is versatile enough that it's worth taking at some point.
Remove Curse. This is, again, a very situational spell. If you or a party member gets cursed, you can learn this the next level - or just let the Cleric, Warlock, or Wizard in your party handle it.
Sending. This is a potent utility spell that's essentially functions as a text message. Communication over any distance (even different planes) is a powerful tool to have access to, whether you're splitting the party, calling for help, or negotiating with a distant enemy.
Non-Abjuration/Evocation (Available at L14)
Animate Dead. At 14th level when you learn this spell, the few skeletons and zombies you can create with it will get torn apart with the barest effort by the monsters you'll face, and their attacks will be largely ineffective. Plus, controlling them continuously ties up your spell slots, keeping you from using them for other important effects. This spell just isn't worth it.
Bestow Curse.* This spell is less powerful at shutting down a single opponent than second-level options like Blindness/Deafness, and you don't have the spell slot levels to curse someone for longer than the duration of a fight. Take something else.
Blink. Despite its randomness, this spell does a great job at keeping you from taking damage - half the time, you're simply not available as a target, and the spell doesn't even require Concentration! Unfortunately, this just means that monsters will target the squishier members of your party more (dealing the same total amount of damage), and you won't be able to stop them with opportunity attacks and other reactions. If you're not typically on the front lines for your party (an archer), or you happen to be squishy yourself, then this spell becomes better, and for the rare Fighter in a solo game, it's amazing.
Clairvoyance. Scrying within a mile can be pretty useful in a variety of situations, although this spell can't target areas that you don't know about. Great for spy-Fighters (that is, Fighters who are spies, not those who fight spies)!
Fear.* This scares creatures within an area, making them flee and denying them their actions. Not a bad spell, but you might have better choices.
Feign Death. You can play dead. Big whoop. Try not losing instead?
Fly. Flight is a particularly powerful ability, and doubly so for you - being able to engage creatures like dragons in melee on their "home turf" takes away their positional advantage, and archer EKs become even more deadly when they can fire at melee creatures without fear of retaliation. This spell has tons of utility outside of combat as well. Just beware of losing Concentration on this spell, as you'll likely end up taking a lot of falling damage.
Gaseous Form. This lets you (or a party member) be effective as a scout or infiltrator - a nice capibility to have around.
Haste. This could be the best combat buff in the game until seventeenth level characters can cast Foresight. An additional attack (that doesn't use your bonus action) is powerful enough, but a boost to AC, Dexterity saving throws, and speed solidifies this as an incredibly potent boost to your effectiveness in combat. Beware losing your concentration on this one, though - a round of ineffectiveness in a fight can spell your doom.
Hypnotic Pattern.* This serves a similar function as Fear, pacifying and charming a large group of creatures, which can knock them out of the fight. Note, however, that non-pacified enemies can shake their allies out of the spell - given that you're not likely to hit as many creatures with this given your (likely) lower save DC anyway, this spell could prove to be totally ineffective. It's not bad in noncombat situations, though.
Major Image.** Creating illusions that cover four of the five senses (of course, they still disappear when touched) is a pretty potent effect with uses in a variety of situations.
Phantom Steed. This spell essentially lets you quadruple your movement speed for an hour, traveling 13 miles instead of the usual three. Unfortunately, the effect is pretty narrow, doesn't really last long enough, and affects only you - there's no way to extend this to the rest of your party. Also, you could, you know, buy a horse. A Wizard or Ritual Caster might find a better use for this.
Sleet Storm.* This spell is essentially an upgraded grease with a larger area and additional effects. It lets you shut down movement in an area, obscure the vision of enemy archers, knock creatures already in the area prone, and stop enemy casters from concentrating. Useful effects, but Concentration makes this a little less effective.
Slow.* This is a brutal debuffing spell that hits a group of creatures, wrecking their action economy, speed, defenses, and spellcasting ability. Although individual creatures can recover from it rather easily, this can still turn the tide of a battle heavily in your favor. Unfortunately it's Concentration and relies on a high saving throw DC, but if you want to minor in de-buffing this spell is worth considering.
Stinking Cloud.* This spell functions as action and area denial for a large group of creatures - which, unfortunately, can easily include your allies or yourself. Reliance on Concentration and spell save DCs, along with a restrictive set of targets (immunity to poison or lack of need to breathe nullify its effects), makes this spell less than idea for you.
Tongues. This spell lets you speak any language, but language barriers are unlikely to come up that often and probably won't be crucial to an adventure even if they do.
Vampiric Touch.* Single-target damage spells are bad for you, and while this one offers self-healing it's not nearly enough to make this spell worth taking.
Water Breathing. This spell can make your entire party able to breathe underwater, but that ability is situational enough that you'll only ever want to take this spell if you plan to swap it out immediately afterwards.
Level 4 Spells
Abjuration/Evocation (Available at L19)
Banishment
Fire Shield
Ice Storm
Mordenkainen's Private Sanctum
Otiluke's Resilient Sphere
Wall of Fire
Non-Abjuration/Evocation (Available L20)
Arcane Eye
Blight
Confusion
Conjure Minor Elementals
Control Water
Dimension Door
Evard's Black Tentacles
Fabricate
Greater Invisibility
Hallucinatory Terrain
Leomund's Secret Chest
Locate Creature
Mordenkainen's Faithful Hound
Phantasmal Killer
Polymorph
Stone Shape
Stoneskin
VIII. Equipment
The fighter class is defined largely by its ability to fight using weapons and armor. Choosing your equipment properly, therefore, can make a big difference in your effectiveness.
Choosing your Armor
The thing about armor in 5E is there are really only four types of it. They are stratified by their gold piece cost, and the armors higher up the chain tend to be unreachable by first level characters. As soon as you have enough gold to pick up better armor, do it! Armor is one of the few ways to directly improve your character's combat abilities by spending gold in 5E and will make a big impact on your survivability.
Also note that you'll virtually never want the padded, hide, or ring mail armor types unless you have no other choice. These are just inferior to other armor types - you can do better.
Leather -> Studded Leather. This is the way to go for Dexterity-based Fighters, as these armor types let you add your full Dexterity bonus to AC. Depending on your financial priorities, Studded Leather might actually purchasable at the start of the game, so make sure you check - that +1 to AC can go a long way!
Chain Shirt -> Breastplate. This armor type doesn't give disadvantage on Stealth rolls, so if you're interested in sneaking around but your Dexterity isn't your main stat you may want to consider these armor types. Totally inferior if you have the Medium Armor Master feat - pick scale mail or half plate instead!
Scale Mail -> Half Plate. As a Fighter with access to heavy armor (which imposes the same disadvantage on Stealth rolls and gives a higher AC overall), you probably don't want this (Strength-based Fighters will be able to move in heavy armor just fine, while Dexterity-based fighters should be in Studded Leather anyway). However, if you have the Medium Armor Mastery feat, scale mail and half plate both improve.
Chain Mail -> Splint -> Plate. For Strength-based Figthers, this armor set is the best although it kills your Stealth rolls. Note that this doesn't apply your Dexterity even if it is negative, so this is especially appealing for low-Dex characters. The situation where this actually impedes your movement will probably never happen, as if your Strength isn't high enough, you should be playing a Dexterity-based Fighter anyway!
Should I use a shield? Are you using a one-handed weapon? Yes, always - there's no reason not to. Are you using a two-handed weapon or fighting with two weapons? No (the rules won't let you).
Choosing your Weapons
Weapon choice in 5E is dependent on your character's fighting style, and most weapons are deliberately similar - in general, if you're picking from the Martial Weapon list you'll be good. Still, some choices are slightly better than others.
"Weapon and Shield." Strength-based characters wielding a shield have numerous options - the battleaxe, longsword, and warhammer come out on top because of their Versatile property, but the flail and war pick are perfectly fine choices (and darned cool) as you'll rarely want to go Versatile. Dexterity-based characters really only have one good option, the rapier.
Two-Handed Fighters. The greatsword and maul deal better damage than the greataxe, but the glaive and halberd work with Polearm Master and have the Reach ability. This path is off-limits for Dexterity fighters.
Dual Wielding. Dexterity-based dual wielders are best off with short swords or scimitars, while Strength-based characters are best with handaxes (which can be thrown!). Once you pick up the Dual Wielder feat, you'll want to pick from the "weapon and shield" list, as those weapons deal the best one-handed damage.
Ranged Combat. The longbow has the best range, but the heavy crossbow deals more damage (although it requires the Crossbow Expert feat to be usable with Extra Attack). Surprisingly, the hand crossbow becomes a great option with the Crossbow Expert feat, as you can deal good damage at any range while wielding a shield. Strength-based characters will want javelins - they have longer range than other thrown weapons and deal the best damage.
Mounted Combat. If you're riding a horse, you'll want a lance.
What weapons should I carry in addition to my primary combat style? Well, if you're a melee character you'll definitely want a ranged attack option based off your primary score - javelin or handaxe for Strength-based characters and a heavy crossbow (lower levels; you won't be able to make Extra attacks with it later on) or longbow for Dexterity-based characters. Ranged characters will probably want an effective melee option (making ranged attacks in melee grants disadvantage without the right feats) - since you're almost certainly Dexterity-based, a rapier is a good pick.
In addition, you might want some form of small "concealable" weapon like a dagger - handy to have around in case your movement is restricted or you need to smuggle yourself into a "weapon-less" situation (a rulers' presence, for example).
What if I'm in a situation where I don't have access to my regular weapons? You're probably best off trying to improvise a weapon similar to a regular one so you can use your proficiency bonus on attacks. For example, a shard of glass in a barfight could be a makeshift dagger, which would be more effective than using a mug as a weapon. If you have the Tavern Brawler feat, all bets are off - use whatever you want!
IX. Multiclassing
One thing that's changed in 5E compared to previous editions is that often the best path is to take 20 levels in your starting class. The Fighter gets solid features every level, from 1 to 20, so unless you're pursuing a specific build or concept you're probably better off staying a single-classed Fighter. That said, there are a lot of multiclass options
Note that multiclassing as a Fighter requires you
Level Dipping
Barbarian (Requires: Strength 13)
As another martial combat-based class, the Barbarian's focus on raw power (rather than your skill) can give your character some extra juice.
Barbarian 1. (Blue) Rage, even twice per day, is a great feature and greatly increases your resiliance when you need it, as well as helping your Strength-based damage. Where this level really shines (sky blue) is for Dexterity-based fighters, as adding your Constitution bonus to AC is usually better than Studded Leather and lets you boost AC and HP at the same time.
Barbarian 2. (Blue) Reckless Attack doesn't mesh as well with the Fighter's "shtick" of making multiple attacks (and without lots of Rage to fall back on, you'll have more trouble surviving the blowback), but Danger Sense really helps shore up your Dexterity saves.
Bard (Requires: Charisma 13)
Bard 1. (Black) You gain access to a few spells which help your utility, but without a solid Charisma you won't be able to make effective use of Bardic Inspiration.
Bard 2. (Black) Jack of All Trades certainly helps you with skills, and Song of Rest will help boost your party, but ultimately this falls short of more Fighter levels.
X. FAQ
Under construction.
XI. Builds and Combos
Builds
The builds in this section offer a quick way to create an effective Fighter character and serve as examples to inspire.
Defensive Fighter, Basic Rules Only
Why play this build? The Fighter is arguably the toughest class in the game. Using just the Basic Rules, one can build a Fighter that can take plenty of hits and dish them right back out.
Point Buy Stats: Str 15, Dex 10, Con 15, Int 8, Wis 14, Cha 8
Race: Mountain Dwarf
Background/Proficiencies/Languages: Soldier, Athletics/Insight/Intimidation/Perception, Gaming Set, Common/Dwarvish/Extra language (your choice)
Fighter Class Choices:
- Fighting Style: Dueling
- Martial Archetype: Champion
- Ability Score Improvements: +1 Str/+1 Con, +2 Str, +2 Con, +2 Wis, +2 Dex, +2 Wis, +2 Dex
- Additional Fighting Style: Defense
Armor & Weapons: Chain/Splint/Plate Mail (upgrade as available), Shield, Battleaxe, Javelins
Possible Alterations: Any race with a Strength or Constitution bonus should work, as should nearly any Background. One might consider the Protection fighting style instead of Defense. Any one-handed weapon should be fine as well.
With the Player's Handbook available, one might consider making this build as a Battle Master (Precision Attack, Riposte and Trip Attack boost your damage, Parry increases your defenses, and Disarming Attack, Manuevering Attack, and Menacing Attack help protect your party). The Shield Master, Heavy Armor Master and Sentinel feats should be heavily considered, and the Resilient (Wisdom) feat is probably better than applying ASIs to Wisdom. You're probably better off staying single classed for this one, as the Fighter delivers staying power for all 20 levels.
Archer, Basic Rules Only
Why play this build? Archery in 5E is better than ever. You can target anyone on the battlefield, and with a Fighter's defenses you'll be a tough target yourself. Making use of finesse weapons means you'll be effective in melee too, and your great Dexterity lets you sneak around and use Thieves' Tools.
Point Buy Stats: Str 8, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 15, Cha 12
Race: Wood Elf
Background/Proficiencies/Languages: Criminal, Acrobatics/Deception/Perception/Stealth, Gaming Set/Thieves' Tools, Common/Elvish
Fighter Class Choices:
- Fighting Style: Archery
- Martial Archetype: Champion
- Ability Score Improvements: +2 Dex, +2 Dex, +2 Con, +2 Con, +2 Con, +2 Wis
- Additional Fighting Style: Dueling
Armor & Weapons: Leather/Studded leather armor (upgrade as available), Heavy Crossbow (levels 1-4)/Longbow (level 5+), Rapier
Possible Alterations: Any race with a Dexterity bonus is fine, and the Urchin background gives nearly the same benefits (although any background could work). If you don't find yourself in melee often, you could take the Defense style instead of Dueling.
With Player's Handbook options, this build could work as a Battle Master - the Disarming Attack, Goading/Menacing Attack, Precision Attack, Pushing Attack, and Trip Attack maneuvers work just fine at range and make you into an effective single-target controller. The Sharpshooter feat will boost your damage enormously if you're playing with feats, and Crossbow Expert will increase your damage after level 4 by letting you use a Heavy Crossbow with Extra Attack. Resilient (Wisdom) might be a better alternative to boosting your Wisdom. To emphasize the stealthy aspects of the build, one might consider multiclassing in Rogue for Expertise and Cunning Action (remember, hiding grants you Advantage on your first attack!).
Reserved 11.
Reserved 12.
Reserved 13. A good number to stop on! Go ahead and post if you'd like.
Thanks for your contribution to the forum.
You should mention in your ability score section that items which can set your Strength score to a specific number exist. So it's actually better for fighters (barring those that don't have access to basic magical items) to max out Dexterity instead of maxing out Strength since you can just get one of those items.
Just something I caught off-hand: The Fighter caps out at 4 attacks at Lv. 20. There is no extra attack at Lv. 17.
Noctaem wrote:
The AC bump at level 1 is very good for the DEX fighter, as it applies all the time. The ranged attack +2 or the offhand weapon damage bonus are both great too, but a DEX fighter likely will switch back and forth some and get only 50% benefit from those (a bit more, since they'll focus on the one they choose), but won't get 100% benefit from either, unlike the AC bonus. Plus the AC bonus makes up for the AC loss of not having heavy armor. And with bounded accuracy and limited options to increase AC, every chance to get a bump is significant.
There are already items to increase Str, Con, and Int we can probably assume Dex, Wiz, and Cha will also get items later. Not to mention unless your DM has already told you that you can/will have a specific item it is generally not a good idea to base a build around it as in 5e it is assumed that there is no magic shop to buy that specific item at.
Also keep up the good work on the guide, I like what I see so far.
Why? If your DM is going to specifically ban an item from the fighter in his group, you have bigger problems at the table imo. Gauntlets of Ogre Power isn't some rare item to begin with from what I remember. No reason why the local magic shop wouldn't have it.
This handbook should absolutely point out that these items exist and that they should be considered when creating your character. There's 0 reason not to ditch STR if you can just get one of these items and almost every fighter out there should be able to get them.
You shouldn't color your handbook with DM fiat. The nature of the edition isn't something anyone can claim to know but the people who designed it and it'll vary wildly based on the DM sitting at the table. Just because one DM doesn't allow for magic shops in his campaign doesn't mean that the next 20 won't either. You should keep the content of your handbook neutral. It's not about what the random DM wants to do at his table or what you yourself do at your table or what I do at mine, you're guiding people to better understand how a class works and what the best options are. An item exists that allows you to set one of your primary ability scores to 19 (Gauntlets of Ogre Power), this should immediately be factored in when deciding how to set up your ability scores as a fighter. If you have access to this item, and I would say that most fighters will (again barring those that don't have easy access to basic magical items because of campaign setting or DM fiat to stop a fighter from getting it), you should absolutely ditch STR and max DEX. This is because you can totally function as a DEX fighter until you get the item, and the item should be available around level 3. It's in the starter set.
I think assuming you're going to get a certain magic item would be "coloring the handbook with DM fiat." The magical items available will vary from table to table and from DM to DM. The availability of a magical item is not in your control. The choices you make with your class features, stat boosts, etc., are. Handbooks are about working with the options you can control. Mention the availability of magic items, sure. Mention whether something is good when you're fortunate to get one, sure. But 5e works on the assumption that you're not necessarily going to get a magical item. Completely opposite of 3e and 4e.
that has no bearing on what should and shouldn't be in a handbook about the best options for a class and how those options work. And please don't compare one edition to another. Handbooks are neutral, the item exists and that's all that matters. When picking ability scores it is absolutely a major factor in deciding if you put points in STR or not. Stating that just because it's a magic item it shouldn't be in the Ability Score section is complete nonsense. Again, what you do at your table is not what the next 20 DM's do at theirs. This handbook should list all of the options available and rate them not by what individual DM's MIGHT do but what each option can do for the CLASS. Gauntlets of Ogre Power are quite frankly a gold rated option because it allows you not to invest in one of your main ability scores and instead focus on the others. Level 3 is not high in terms of leveling. The starter set went that high and included this item. It can even be crafted by the players.
The fact that the item may not be in your campaign is VERY relevant. You can't control whether your DM will have that item available, or when it will be available. There are no magic item shops in 5e. That's even stated in the PHB itself (p. 144). If you're going to some random table, and you bring a character, and you don't know what items that DM will have available, you want that character to have base competence, regardless of items or not. Better to assume such items will not be available, and run a competent character regardless of the fact, than assume wrongly and be way the heck behind when the joke's on you.
I don't think Magic Items, or the expectation of receiving them, should be factored into the build portion of a class guide. If a player wants to roll the dice that they will get an item that mitigates a dump stat, that's fine. A guide should be about voluntary player decisions for character development, rather than speculative options the player doesn't control.
Koga, you've got Animal Handling in there twice, once in place of History, I believe. Thank you, Gladius. 
Direach wrote:
Fighters really have only two choices of weapons: Heavy Weapons, or Ranged Weapons.
Sharpshooter and Great Weapon Master are just that good.
GladiusLegis wrote:
Finished the color rankings for proficiencies, attributes, backgrounds, and class features. TIme for some debate!
Dueling should be dark blue. Using a shield significantly lowers your DPR compared to a Great Weapon. That will actually mean you take more damage over the course of a fight because it will take you longer to kill your enemies. It may seem counterintuitive, but you will have better survivability using the greatsword.
Defense is purple. All it's good for is a Champion's second style. Always go with the offensive option first.
I think Dueling is fine where it is. It depends on your goals as a fighter character: DPS or survivability. There has been plenty of number-crunching elsewhere to show that Dueling style does very good damage, even if it's not as high as a purely DPS-optimized greatsword fighter. With an AC of 20 or better (from magic, buffs, Defensive, etc), and taking bounded accuracy into account, the number of enemy hits you take will diminish significantly compared to even an 18 AC from plate alone. At lower and mid levels, where players will realistically spend most of their time, a high defense for a fighter is less of a strain on personal and party resources. It's pretty clear that at later levels, the balance can swing back towards pure offense, but Dueling + shield never loses so much viability that it is an overall dark blue choice.
I'd say Defense is overall black, and purple as a primary style choice. It helps a bit at lower level, but not anywhere near as much as one of the offensive options does. Defensive pays off better once you already have a high AC, I'd say it's a dark blue choice as a second style for a Dueling fighter, black as a second style for great weapon or archer.
Hi,
Thank you for this guide!
Three little observations:
1) Attributes > Charisma
Charisma can be usefull when you make an extensive use of the "Rally" maneuver (one of the best maneuvers). Charisma could at least be black for Rally Battlemasters.
2) Proficiencies > Skills > Perception
Perception, in my opinion, should be sky blue because of the way surprise works in 5th edition.
3) Proficiencies > Fighting style > Two-Weapon fighting
What do you mean by eats up his bonus action? Dealing damage with your bonus action is a good way to use it in my opinion.
The current TWF high level damage output doesn't take into account magic items. The probability of having two magical weapons at high level is pretty high, even if it is not granted in 5th, this is still d&d.
One of my pet peeves--and you're free to ignore this--is the rating of things which are not options. Action Surge is definitely good, but it's not like you can choose not to take it. I'm much more interested in seeing how you rate the various choices than how you score mandatory things on an arbitrary scale of goodness.
Noctaem wrote:
RCanine wrote:
I'll second Red on Protection not being a bad choice depending on party makeup. If you go trotting into a dungeon at level 1 with an AC 15 Rogue, -he- is going to think it's the bestest ever.
Let's not forget that the Battle Master's ability to size up an NPC is an extremely useful out-of-combat ability that no other class can replicate.
mellored wrote:
Direach wrote:
Direach wrote:
Kurgag wrote:
Polearm Master is an amazing feat for fighters as it makes it easy for them to use their bonus action and their reaction nearly every round.
Sentinel makes protection style completely obsolete.
Great Weapon Master is ok by itself, but really shines when combined with Polearm Master as your offhand attack will do d4+15 damage.
One item of note: None of the Eldritch Knight features specify Melee, only weapon attack, allowing for some options with throwing weapon, hand crossbows, and (with a kindly DM) Arcane Archer style using the draw hand for Somatic effects.
Vestras wrote:
Eldritch Knights spells review:
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Cantrips
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Acid Splash (****) At-will AOE, Works with Eldritch Strike, Can be cast in melee range without disadvantage.
Blade Ward (***) At -will damage mitigation nice for melee EK, ranged EK doesn't need this (*).
Chill Touch (*) Prevents healing, useful for ranged Eldritch knights (**)
Dancing Lights (*) Nice Utility Spell
Fire Bolt (*) Nice damage but ranged damage is better at low levels
Friends (*) Nice Utility Spell
Light (*) Nice Utility Spell
Mage Hand (*) Utility Spell
Mending (*) Utility Spell
Message (*) Utility Spell
Minor Illusion (**) Nice Utility Spell
Poison Spray (***) Works with Eldritch Strike, Can be cast in melee range without disadvantage. range is too short for ranged Eldritch knights (*)
Prestidigitation (*) Flavor Utility Spell
Ray of Frost (*) Slows your target, useful for ranged Eldritch knights (***)
Shocking Grasp (***) Advantage on armored foes, prevent them from using OA can be cast in melee range without disadvantage. No use for ranged Eldritch knights ().
True Strike () (Concentration) Too bad it activates only on your next round. Avoid it.
---------------------------------------------------
Level 1 Spells:
---------------------------------------------------
Alarm (*) Can be usefull to secure long rests or your purse from your rogue "friend".
Burning Hands (**) Works with Eldritch Strike, can be cast in melee range without disadvantage
Chromatic Orb () can be used by ranged Eldricht Knights (*)
Mage Armor () useless if you wear armor, if you don't, take it (***)
Magic Missile (**) Auto hits, can be cast in melee range without disadvantage
Protection from Evil and Good (**) (Concentration) At low lvl can be useful, but at higher lvls concentration is required for other spells.
Shield (****) Best lvl 1 spell for Eldricht Knights period.
Thunderwave (***) Works with Eldritch Strike, can be cast in melee range without disadvantage, nice Aoe + push effect.
Witch Bolt () useless
---------------------------------------------------
Level 1 Interesting Non evocation / abjuration spells:
---------------------------------------------------
Find familiar (*) see through its eyes and deliver touch spell at range.
Feather Fall (*) Utility
Grease (**) Nice Area control, can grant advantage to melee characters.
Ray of sickness (**) nice ranged spell for ranged EK.
Sleep (**) nice control spell, works with Eldritch Strike, can be cast in melee range without disadvantage.
Longstrider (*) can fix the movement speed of DEX EK wearing Heavy armor.
Expeditious retreat (concentration) (*) At low lvl can be useful, but at higher lvls concentration and bonus action is required for other spells. Can fix the movement speed of DEX EK wearing Heavy armor.
---------------------------------------------------
Level 2 Spells:
---------------------------------------------------
Arcane Lock (*) Expensive but can be useful to secure long rests or valuable objects.
Continual Flame () Utility but expensive
Darkness (**) (Concentration) A good way to prevent ranged damage but requires concentration.
Gust of Wind () (Concentration) Clean gaz clouds and requires concentration, as an EK avoid it.
Melf's Acid Arrow () You'd better use a first lvl spell in a 2nd lvl spell slot.
Scorching Ray () You'd better use a first lvl spell in a 2nd lvl spell slot.
Shatter () You'd better use a first lvl spell in a 2nd lvl spell slot. Ranged Eldricht Knights can use this (**)
---------------------------------------------------
Level 2 Interesting Non evocation / abjuration spells:
---------------------------------------------------
Blur (concentration) (***) Great defensive spell but requires concentration
Enlarge/Reduce (concentration) (**) Extra damage on melee attacks and more space control (bigger zone for OA) is fine but requires concentration.
Flaming Sphere (concentration) (***) Great Aoe but requires concentration
Hold person (**) nice control and damage boost but works only on humanoids and requires concentration, works with Eldritch Strike, can be cast in melee range without disadvantage.
Magic Weapon (concentration) (*) boost to hit and damage as a bonus action but requires concentration. Nice spell if you don't have a magic weapon, otherwise it's useless.
Mirror Image (****) Great defensive spell
Misty Step (***) Teleport as a bonus action, nice.
Web (concentration) (*) Interesting Area control but requires concentration, works with Eldritch Strike, can be cast in melee range without disadvantage.
---------------------------------------------------
Level 3 Spells:
---------------------------------------------------
Counterspell (***) Useful reaction.
Dispel Magic (***) Very Useful.
Fireball (*) Works with Eldritch Strike, can be cast in melee range without disadvantage, Ranged Eldricht Knights will put this spell to a better use. (**)
Glyph of Warding (**) Usefull to secure long rests, set ambushes but expensive
Leomund's Tiny Hut (*) Utility
Lightning Bolt () too specific
Magic Circle (*) Utility but expensive
Nondetection (***) Synergizes with blur / greater invisibility / mirror image but expensive. High lvl must have.
Protection from Energy (**) (Concentration) Useful defense but requires concentration.
Remove Curse (**) Useful
Sending (*) Utility
---------------------------------------------------
Level 3 Interesting Non evocation / abjuration spells:
---------------------------------------------------
Fly (*) (concentration) Nice utility but requires concentration.
Haste (****) (concentration) great spell but requires concentration (best use of your concentration IMHO)
Hypnotic Pattern (concentration) (**) Nice area control but requires concentration, works with Eldritch Strike, can be cast in melee range without disadvantage.
Slow (concentration) (*) Interesting control but requires concentration, works with Eldritch Strike, can be cast in melee range without disadvantage.
Vampiric Touch (***) (concentration) small amount of heal and damage, can be cast in melee range without disadvantage but requires concentration.
---------------------------------------------------
Level 4 Spells:
---------------------------------------------------
Banishment (*) (concentration) control is nice but requires concentration, works with Eldritch Strike, can be cast in melee range without disadvantage.
Fire Shield (****) punish them for hitting you, comes with fire/frost resistance
Ice Storm (**) Works with Eldritch Strike, can be cast in melee range without disadvantage, sets difficult terrain zone.
Mordenkainen's Private Sanctum (*) Utility
Otiluke's Resilient Sphere (*) (Concentration) control is nice but requires concentration, works with Eldritch Strike, can be cast in melee range without disadvantage.
Stoneskin (***) (Concentration) Nice mitigation but requires concentration
Wall of Fire (*) (Concentration) Decent Aoe but requires concentration, works with Eldritch Strike, can be cast in melee range without disadvantage.
---------------------------------------------------
Level 4 Interesting Non evocation / abjuration spells:
---------------------------------------------------
Blight (*) single target damage spell, works with Eldritch Strike, can be cast in melee range without disadvantage
Dimension Door (**) Grants you more teleportation.
Evard's Black Tentacles (***) Great AOE with built-in control but requires concentration
Greater Invisibility (***) (concentration) great spell but requires concentration.
Mordenkainen's Faithful Hound (**) Can be invoked in battle for extra damage or used as guard.
Polymorph (*) (concentration) Good single target control but requires concentration, works with Eldritch Strike, can be cast in melee range without disadvantage.
Kurgag wrote:
Kurgag wrote:
Koga305 wrote:
mellored wrote:
You wield a Hand Crossbow in one hand and a shield in the other. The Hand Crossbow is always loaded, for one of two reasons:
A- "loaded" isn't a defined term and so can be skipped
B- You simply start the encounter with it loaded and then, as per ammunition rules, load it after you've fired.
Squad wrote:
Unfortunate that cheeseball players will cause DM's no end of headaches with their magically-but-not-magically self-reloading hand crossbows and/or helpful phantom reloading limbs. Written or not, no sensible DM would allow it. Hopefully this will get clarified and fixed sooner than later.
Squad wrote:
You need a free hand to load a crossbow. They don't magically load themselves. You may as well say you don't need a hand to swing a sword. I don't even know what straw man you think I'm proposing. 'Crossbow Expert' is a poorly-written rule that is being exploited by rules lawyers. Doesn't matter if it's RAW, it physically can't be done. Crossbows do not load themselves, unless a DM has opted to bestow autoloading crossbows upon his game world. In that case, crossbow kata for everyone!
Ammunition. You can use a weapon that has the
ammunition property to make a ranged attack only if
you have ammunition to fire from the w eapon. Each
time you attack with the weapon, you expend one piece
of ammunition. Drawing the ammunition from a quiver,
case, or other container is part of the attack.
Actually you don't need a free hand, you just made that up. It's not even a poorly written feat (although it certainly is unconventional), and the only "exploitation" is on your end in order to try and find a counter-arguement that even sounds passable. You're failing btw.
Direach wrote:
Patently ridiculous.
Direach wrote:
Irrelevant bandwagon fallacy. It doesn't address the issue: no free hand, no loading, no loaded, no firing.
It's likely you've never held an actual shield, so allow me to explain how it works: there is a 4"-6" wide leather strap fastened tightly to your forearm. In your hand is another thick strap, with barely enough room to cram your gauntleted hand into it. The point is for the shield not to move or shift on your arm. You do not have a free hand; at best you can wiggle your fingers a bit.
If you are carrying a sword, axe, mace, or whatever else, you likewise do not have a free hand. Assuming you aren't using a locked gauntlet, loosening your grip at all means you will probably lose your weapon.
Then, even if your fingers could wiggle enough to maybe grab something by the tips, there is no way you could load a crossbow bolt successfully, even if you had some amazing device that automatically recocked the bowstring. Your weapon, or shield, will not clip through your body like in a video game.
All of these things are factual statements, and you can easily verify them with anyone in the SCA, or any other reenactment group. If you deny that verifiable facts are facts, there's not much more I can say. I can't stop people from exploiting a loophole, but I can point out the loophole, and the absurdity of it. There is no way short of magic to reload a crossbow of ANY kind without having a completely free hand.
Duders, this is not the thread for this argument. 
Oh gee, you're telling me things might be slightly unrealistic in this fantasy rpg? The giant dragons and sorcerers casting fireball didn't clue me in.
And to further shut down your "loophole" statement: The logic for loading doesn't change just because you're using it for a speific attack. You can reload with a shield in one hand and your crossbow in the other because the rules state as such. That is all that need be said.
It's not a "loophole", it's this thing called "suspension of disbelief".
I wasn't looking for an argument, I just stated my opinion, which Yunru attacked. I've been trying to explain my position as civilly as possible, despite his sarcastic baiting. My opinion is perfectly valid, as is anyone else's, his included. If there is a flaw in the rules that should be addressed, it should be pointed out, which I have done, and supported my position. I also voiced my concerns to the writers, so hopefully the issue will be addressed conclusively.
Yunru, permit me to refer you to this website:
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/home
I believe you will find it helpful should you wish to engage in reasonable discourse online.
Your "opinion" was nothing but a blatent attack. You literally called everyone who uses a one-hand crossbow and a sword/shield cheaters who exploit the game. How is that anything but an attack?
Also you say you support your opinion of the "flaw! in the rules. Let's point out some facts:
- Everywhere the rules could support your case they at best don't and at worst actively contradict it
- All of your "support" has been dismissing the opposing view without explanation, asides from one post about real-world corrolation
- DnD is not designed to emulate the real world
I'm also confused as to your link, if anyone *you* are most in need of it. Between the two of us, only *one* of us is using the actual rules as a basis for their arguement, and it sure isn't you.
As tiresome as this has become, apparently I have to spell out that "it says so in the rules" is in no way a valid contradiction to my position that the rules themselves are broken.
But that wasn't your whole position. Your position was... I don't actually know. As far as I can tell you're of the opinion that anyone who uses the rules for ammunition with a one-handed ammo weapon and anything else is "exploiting" the rules.
To quote your opinion on anyone using the above combo:
Direach wrote:
If you don't know what my position is, you probably shouldn't be so vehemently opposed to it. I wrote it out very clearly, above; it's still there if you wish to refer to it. But just to recap:
- Crossbow Expert tacitly permits a physically impossible action, i.e. loading a one-handed crossbow without the aid of a free hand (assuming that the character has a crossbow in one hand and a weapon or shield in the other hand).
- This is broken and should be addressed by the designers.
- I am of the opinion that this broken feat permits those inclined to exploit rules loopholes to take far greater advantage of this feat (combined with Archery Style and Sharpshooter) than was intended by the game designers.
And frankly, if you don't like my opinion, or hate my opinion, so what? You can disagree. We can disagree. But harping on me about it isn't going to change my opinion. If you can persuade me that there is a logical, non-magical way to load a one-handed crossbow without the use of a free hand, then I'll change my mind. Until then, we're done.
My point is, despite your words to the contrary, none of that is logically restricted to Crossbow Expert. To quote you, your problem is with:
Direach wrote:
Yes, I am saying that. You cannot load a crossbow of any kind without a fully free hand. Crossbow Expert is relevant because that is where the abuse is most egregious. Even without the feat, it is still not possible to load a crossbow of any kind without a free hand. And that's not an opinion, that is a verifiable fact. If the game rules say otherwise, then the game rules are broken, or a more thorough explanation is required from the designers for why it is permitted.
I'm pretty sure "cheeseball" is not considered a mortal insult by most. And it's no more than calling a spade a spade: the only people who would be insulted are the people who are deliberately taking advantage of a loophole. They know what they're doing, they've done it for years, ever since 3rd Edition. My own thinking is that there may be players who DON'T see that it's a bad rule, who may see this and think "Hmm, I don't want to do that, even if it does seem cool."
For that matter, if you feel a post is offensive or insulting to you, then report it. Let the Mods settle it. I'm fine with that.
Direach wrote:
Direach wrote:
You have misrepresented my words in literally every post you've made, and insulted me personally in most of them. You're fortunate that that is not a violation of the terms of conduct here, but regardless, it is a deplorably poor way to conduct yourself in a public forum.
Direach wrote:
Ladies and gentlemen, I apologize for this excessive digression from the topic. And if anyone was offended by my general use of the words "cheeseball players", I apologize for that as well. Hopefully my lighthearted jab did not sting too deeply. Good night.
Can we please knock off the crossbow rant in the fighter guide thread?
Please go make a new thread and stop derailing from the fighter discussion.
Direach wrote:
Champion is one of the two ways to get 1/2 proficiency on an Initiative check, more specifically "Remarkable Athlete" (the other being the Bard's Jack of all Trades).
Nachturnus, thank you for sharing your own experience. That is interesting to know. I still submit that, based on my own experience, and relevant experience of reenactor friends, that it is not practically possible to load a crossbow of any kind without at least a partially free hand, and if you're holding an actual weapon in that hand (sword, axe, hand crossbow), you cannot do so without stowing or dropping at least one weapon. The shields I have used did not permit much, if any, mobility of the hand holding them. Fortunately, bows are specifically two-handed, otherwise I could see any number of archers suddenly strapping on shields.
With respect, Koga, and arguments aside, my contention has merit in this thread, for a simple reason: an Archery Style fighter with Crossbow Expert and Sharpshooter, using two hand crossbows, is potentially the highest damage-dealing fighter in the game. That does not seem like the intent of the designers to me. But I will have to wait until the designers actually weigh in on the issue; until then, it is just my opinion.
@ppaladin
You know you can take a non-evocation/abjuration spell at first level 1, right? Find familiar or feather fall might be worth it.
I'd also add misty step to the list of interesting level 2 spells (bonus action and can get your out of things like EBT). And hold person for the auto-crits but only if you are pumping your intelligence up as a second primary.
Gust of wind is not a useless spell since it dissipates gas clouds (like cloud kill) but EKs have too few spells known to pick it up....I'd definitely pick it up at some point as a wizard though. It has saved my party's butts a few times in previous editions.
Kurgag wrote:
Ashrym wrote:
Bladeward is situational, but can be a win if you are reducing the enemy damage by 50%, and only reducing your parties damage by 25%. Like if your standing in a doorway and you have ranger, rogue, and wizard lobbing attacks from behind you.
As a fighter, you can often be the tank for the group, that situation can happen pretty often. Especially if you have a ranged party and the sentianl feat.
It also protects you from evards black tenticals.
mellored wrote:
Nachturnus wrote:
Kurgag wrote:
mellored wrote:
Nachturnus wrote:
wwinfrey wrote:
Nachturnus wrote:
mellored wrote:
Races are up! Please continue your debate.
Didn't you know? All the debating is an elaborate ruse to keep the thread bumped!
bid wrote:
Yunru wrote:
wwinfrey wrote:
I'd bump stout halings to blue.
Lucky is possibly the best choice with Crossbow Expertise + Sharp Shooter combo. Slow speed is the only thing keeping them from going sky.
wwinfrey wrote:
mellored wrote:
Ashrym wrote:
Kurgag wrote:
Ashrym wrote:
Noctaem wrote:
NightSteel wrote:
mellored wrote:
Martial Archetypes are up (minus the formatting)! I decided to move Maneuvers to a seperate section.
An option for a High Elf fighter is to consider taking True Strike or better yet Shocking Grasp as your cantrip.
Koga305 wrote:
Lord_Phobetor wrote:
Rough fighting style / feat damage collation.
- Compared to Polearm Master, Dual Wielder is as good at low levels but 10% behind at high levels.
- Compared to Polearm Master, simple Mace GWF is 30% behind at low levels but reaches parity by level 11.
- Great Weapon Master requires a killing blow every 2 attacks to match Polearm Master.
PM / dueling style = 150% damage across levels
PM / TWF = 115% low to 140% high levels
PM / DW = 99% low to 117% high levels
PM / GWF 1d12 = 142% low to 109% high levels
PM / GWF 2d6 = 130% low to 98% high levels
PM / GWM any = 130% to 150%
DM gives +1 AC, while PM offers more OA.
Ashrym wrote:
One thing to note it that feinting and distracting attack works with spells.
A fighter/druid could use it before casting contagion for instance.
Though, there's actually not to many AC spells besides cantrips.
Top:
Precision attack
Menencing.
distracting
Feinting
Possibly top:
Rally (THP last all day, so spend any before you rest).
Commander's Strike, with barbarian, bladelock, paladin, cleric, and some rangers (sky blue if you have a rogue).
Squad wrote:
Koga305 wrote:
Dueling does not need a feat to function, it just does its job, and lets you have a shield. It's not optimal DPS, but it's a bit of everything.
Of course, I am also a firm believer in Shield Master greatness, which is the closest thing to Duelist feat support. :p
mellored wrote:
How to protect your party with a Fighter
i've often read that in 5th edition you couldn't pull aggro and control the battlefield as well as in 4th edition. That's partially true, you don't have as many tricks as before but still there are many things you can do to protect the rest of the party.
General tips:
1) Use choke points: the typical dungeon corridor is 10 feet wide, try to use it to your advantage to force opportunity attacks. Ask the rest of your party not to rush inside rooms but rather fight at the entrance.
2) Do not stick other party members, leave enough room between you and them to force OA. Ask them to do the same between themselves.
3) When fighting dragons, or any monster with breath weapons or burst aoe, plz do not stay aligned with the rest of the party.
4) If you play with feats the sentinel feat is compulsory.
5) If you play with feats the shield master feat can allow you shove or trip enemies, wich is a good way to reduce their speed,/ reach, or granting advantage to melee charcters..
6) If you play with feats the Polearm master feat allows you to get OA at short range, this can be great paired with sentinel. However, depending on your party composition, it might not be the best tactic (a rogue will suffer from it). Also remeber that you loose your shield and you are Polearm dependant (a not very common magical loot compared to a sword).
7) If you play with feats Inspiring leader, is a good way to grant temporary HP to your party. (Better if used by a Rally Batllemaster with decent CHA)
Example: C is the Cleric, F is the Fighter, W is the wizard, M are Monsters, X are squares that provoke OA when left.
_______
|
M |-------------------
M M F X C X
M M X X W
|-------------------
_______|
Specific tips:
Battlemasters:
- Goading attack is like a taunt, it will strongly encourage a creature to attack you instead of other party members. Do not forget it works with ranged attacks too.
- Rally as a bonus action allows you to protect a nearby ally, this is a good way to mitigate damage.
- Menacing attack is basically a fear, so it's a small control that reduce the numbers of foes you have to deal with.
- Maneuvering attack is a good way to pull a friend from a dangerous situation.
- Pushing attack can be useful to repel oponents (effectively reducing their reach). It is a great maneuver when paired with Polearm Master and Sentinel.
Eldritch Kinghts:
- War caster feat is compulsory if you play with feat.
- Shocking grasp can allow a friend to leave melee without using the disengage action.
- Thunderwave is a great way to repel multiple enemies and keep them away from your companions. It works wonders with Polearm Master and any AOE control spells (web, Edward black tentacles, etc..)
- Casting AOE control spells is a great way to slow/root your enemies (Grease, web, Edward's black tentacles, Ice storm).
Mitigating damage VS Dealing damage?
There is no definitive answer to that question. I often read on the forum that dealing damage is the best option and mitagting is just a way to delay the inevitable, this is simply not true.
Mitigating damage can be handy when:
- Your entire party is low life (just been hit by big AOE damage - a dragon's breath for instance -). It allows the healer to heal the squishy characters first without having to worry about your health for a turn or two.
- In small fight It can save your party ressources (HIt dice, Healing spells) and allow your group to fight longer before taking a long rest. Bye small fight, I mean fights that could easly be won by your group without you dealing a ton of damage. Sometimes showing off with extra attacks can be stupid in the long run.
- When facing hard hitting solo creature with loads of HP that is focusing you. If it takes too long for your party to kill the ceature anyways and your HP are dropping fast, it is better to reduce the amount of damage taken than try to burst damage.
- When you are very low HP, you are delaying your death, yes, which is great because meanwhile your party members can keep on dealing damage safely and because it leaves time to the cleric to cast a cure spell.
I'm interested in seeing how the feat section turns out. Fighters have more chances to take feats than any other class. Between 3-7 depending on how many stat increases they choose, (still haven't seen if the math was done to say if getting stats up to 20 is mandatory. I've heard several people question whether it is.)
Are there 7 feats worth taking? I kinda wish someone would make a feat guide.
palinmaz wrote:
The issue with feats is that they tend not to stack.
Take polearm expertise, and you basicly will ignore alot of other feats.
But let's see if we can make a viable feat-only character.
1 bonus action feat (crossbow expert)
1 armor feat (heavy armor expertise)
resilence (Wisdom)
Lucky
Toughness
alert
...
*Durable is only good if you have high Con, which means boosting stats.
Yea, i can't see much beyond 5 feats. Which still means fighters will max out your attack stat at some point.
Noctaem wrote:
Lawolf wrote:
Mistwell wrote:
mellored wrote:
Just some feedback DPS is not everything in this game. Duelist style+2 AC is fine IMHO.
Stats boosts are nice as well but an extra attack is better IMHO regarding things like Polearm Mastery or Great Weapon Style.
Party synergy is also important. A bless and/or faerie fire is alsmost mandatory if you want to suck up the -5 to hit with the sharpshooter/great weapon style feat. Actually surviving is also nice and in game healing is rare so consider something like a thief+healer feat.
I have a light cleric with the ehaler feat which in addition to its expected benefits frees up the cleric to use spell slots on things like bless and faerie fire. I would go as far as saying the healer feat may be one of the biggest damage buffs in this game both in terms of making yo stay around longer to deal more damage and it frees up clerical spell slots to buff the DPS part of the party. Right now my cleric would give his left nut to actually have a DPS machine in the party.
Party synergy matters more than pure DPS as long as you do not tank DPS IMHO. Don't do this.
http://community.wizards.com/forum/product-and-general-dd-discussions/threads/4144431
Your entire post is irrelevent because of one fact:
The things being discussed, only effect DPR. Well that and survival. So basically just combat. So why/how could/would you rate them relevent to anything else?
Yunru wrote:
Kurgag wrote:
Magic Initiate lets you learn (and cast 1/day, but we're here for learn) a lvl 1 spell from any class. If you're going Eldritch Knight, Hex is the single best power you can pick up, it's better than Hasten (since that only lets you have 1 extra attack vs +3.5 damage to each attack).
mellored wrote:
Kurgag wrote:
I believe that OP should fix the "Extra Attack at 17th level" phrase, for clarity.
Otherwise, this guide is golden!
MykeSchultz wrote:
mellored wrote:
MykeSchultz wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
MykeSchultz wrote:
Mistwell wrote:
GladiusLegis wrote:
Ha, that's kind of depressing. Perhaps the fighter will get some sort of two-weapon fighting build in the future to make a TWFF more viable?I know this is the fighter thread, and I know barbarians are best off using a great axe, but how sub-optimal is a dual-wielding barbarian? (I'm thinking for a Berserker one it would be way suboptimal; but what about a Totem one?).
Kurgag wrote:
MykeSchultz wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
If he goes Arcane Knight he could pick up Hex via Magic Initiate which'd add +1d6 to each attack you hit with.
Alternatively around level 12ish you could pick up Hasten, for less dpr than running Hex would get you (they're both Concentration spells so they can't both be run by you), but a speed and armour increase.
If you're looking for support spells to be cast on you (warning: depends on party co-operation): Hasten. Hasten Hasten Hasten. Did I mention Hasten. Yeah, Hasten is good (although not as good as Hex, but that only effects the caster), an extra action a turn (but max 1 weapon attack (hint: Shove Prone if Str based. Shove is not a weapon attack, so you can Shove AND attack with your Hasten's action)) is nothing to sneeze at.
MykeSchultz wrote:
mellored wrote:
Guest703856308 wrote:
Just finished up the Maneuvers, which I'm sure will give you all fuel for debate. Also added a section about the philosophy and purpose of the guide at the beginning.
School is busy, but writing optimization guides is relaxing!
Feinting Attack can be used with spells. I wouldn't change the rating, but it can be rather nice for a multi-classing, helping you land contagion.
And i disagree with trip attack being bad for ranged characters. Slowing someone down could give you a full extra turn to pin cushion them.
mellored wrote:
Should also probably note that Trip Attack doesn't need to be taken if you have Shield Master and the STR and Athletics proficiency to put its bonus action shove prone to use. (Both have the same size limitation, too.)
Koga305 wrote:
Here's some math. Fighter vs Fighter vs Fighter. 20 Str. +9 to hit. No feats.
Protection. 21 AC (40% to be hit)
9.725
Dualist. 20 AC (45% to be hit)
11.725
GWF, 18 AC (55% to be hit)
13.75
P vs D
9.725 * .45 = 4.37625
P vs G
9.725 * .55 = 5.34875
D vs P
11.725 * .4 = 4.69
D vs G
11.725 * 55 = 6.44875
G vs P
13.75 * .4 = 5.5
G vs D
13.75 * .45 = 6.1875
Dualist beats Protection by 0.31375 per attack.
Dualist beats GWF by 0.26125 per attack
GWF beats Protection by 0.15125 per attack.
Looking at running a High Elf Dex Eldritch Knight. I rather like the concept of the dueling style with shield for this build.
I have a few questions regarding Shield Master.
I currently have stats set to 10,16,14,16,10,8. I'm also proficient in Athletics.
When I get to taking feats, is it worth it to take shield mastery even if my strength is suboptimal for the shove check?
I could drop WIS or CON by two to get points for STR. Would one of these options be a good idea?
Even at +3 it'll still be kind of suboptimal, right? Are the other benefits of the feat good enough?
Can I take the bonus action shove before my regular attacks?
I like the idea of standing up to a dragon with my shield in front of me, diverting it's breath from hitting me.
IxidorRS wrote:
mellored wrote:
mellored wrote:
GladiusLegis wrote:
Missed my addendum, contrasting with how the Monk's Flurry of Blows is different, in which it DOES specify "after" your Attack action.
GladiusLegis wrote:
But could you shove as a bonus action in between Extra Attack attacks (say after a grab)?
Yunru wrote:
I think menacing attack for a ranged fighter should be rated Gold. If used on consecutive turns you can keep an enemy out of combat for multiple rounds in a row while also helping focus down the closer enemies with your other attacks.
Assuming hits: A lvl 11 bow fighter can attack a far off creature with menacing and frighten it and then have 2 other attacks against enemies directly threatening the party. This can happen the next round as well (or more but you likely won't need it more than 2 or 3 rounds any given combat).
The ability to take an enemy out of most of the combat while also getting 2/3 of your attacks towards enemies threatening the party seems a must take to me, Especially given the other options you have has to make this ability gold for ranged fighters.
Yunru wrote:
FrogReaver wrote:
Ok, i've been convinced. You can shove before swinging.
Though, if you shove someone off a cliff, and have no one to attack, you lose the rest of your action.
Koga305 wrote:
Yunru wrote:
FrogReaver wrote:
Koga305 wrote:
Koga305 wrote:
mellored wrote:
Kurgag wrote:
FluffyBunbunKittens wrote:
FrogReaver wrote:
mellored wrote:
FrogReaver wrote:
mellored wrote:
Still depends on party makeup and what you're fighting. I know I've played with at least a few parties that would actually be angry at me keeping the guy from moving closer.
And while you've made very good points as to why it's good, you still haven't shown that it should be rated better than what it is.
I do think almost all Battlemasters, and especially ranged ones, will be taking it, but again that "almost" is what keeps it from bumping up.
What happens when a target Frightened by Menacing Attack is subsequently hit by a Goading Attack from the same source?
Direach wrote:
IxidorRS wrote:
Yunru wrote:
FrogReaver wrote:
mellored wrote:
FrogReaver wrote:
IxidorRS wrote:
FrogReaver wrote:
FrogReaver, I appreciate the insight you've given and I feel like I understand your position - and you have some great reasons as to why the maneuver is extremely good; I plan on modifying its description to better explain the tactical advantages of fear. That said, after this debate I stand by my original rating of Sky Blue for reasons which I've stated above.
Thank you all for your opinions! Let's move on to discussing something else now.
Yunru wrote:
Kurgag wrote:
It seems to me that Feinting Attack is one of the best (perhaps the best?) offensive Combat Maneuver at level 3, though it does pale in comparison to Trip Attack at higher levels.
The cost of a bonus action is not trivial, but until you have GWM or PM, non-Dual Wielders don't have a lot of ways to use it anyway.
Comparing Feint to Trip, knockdowns can, obviously, generate advantage for other allies, but might also be obnoxious for your ranged attackers ... barring some initative order juggling. So I figure it's fair enough to claim that the positive effects on other melee characters will cancel out the negative effects on ranged characters, and it's safe to just ignore the effects it has on the group. If you don't spend your first feat on a Style Mastery, then you won't have a bonus action attack and an extra weapon attack (guaranteeing that you can get advantage from a knockdown) until level 6, but you can freely retrain out of Feinting Attack at level 7.
Comparing Feint to Precision Attack, Precision Attack will, over time, generate a bigger +hit bonus (advantage doesn't scale with the size of your superiority die), and can be used after the attack roll - both solid bonuses. But Feinting Attack increases your likelihood to hit, your likelihood to crit AND the damage that the hit deals? That's a lot of icing on the cake, even counting the cost. Again, once Great Weapon Master enters the playing field, Precision Attack is probably going to be the preferred manevuer.
Anyway, instead of calling Feinting Attack a "Black", I think it should be blue at low levels, trending towards purple as the other maneuvers gain ground.
Parry is another rating that I think I disagree with. {die} + {dex} might be a lot of damage at level 3 (~ 1/3 to 1/2 of your total hp, given higher dex and lower con scores), but at high levels {die}+{dex} just doesn't seem like it's going to go very far. It seems to me that a level 20 fighter could easily have 200 hp, even assuming +5 dex mod and max rolls your die, you'll only be taking a tiny bit of damage off. Plus, it comes at the cost of your reaction, which locks you out of Ripostes/OAs ... So I would suggest also giving it a lower rating as time goes on, especially, as you mention, if Dex scores are low.
Actually if anything, Trip Attack loses mojo at higher levels as you fight more Huge and Gargantuan enemies.
Feinting Attack isn't ever anything higher than black for a straight Fighter, though. Rogues taking 3-5 Fighter levels, on the other hand ...
Hope you're still working on this, Koga.
LupusRegalis wrote:
Koga305 wrote:
Koga305 wrote:
Consider the feats RATED!
I had a lot of trouble rating Crossbow Expert so I'm tossing it out for your inspection. What are the benefits of this feat most useful for, and how would you rate it based on that?
Finally, I threw in a backup of Section II for now; I'll be re-formatting it and fixing typos/bad rating over the next few days.
I'm almost of a mind to rate Resilient (WIS) gold. Considering how many ASIs/feats Fighters get, along with them being generally SAD, there's really no excuse not to take it and shore up the Fighter's key defensive weakness.
Koga305 wrote:
Crossbow Expertise + Archery vs Polearm Master + GWF
60% base accuracy.
Level 1-4
1d10 (6.3)+3 GWF = 9.3 * 0.6 = 5.58
1d4 (3)+3 GWF = 6 *0.6 = 3.6
= 9.18
1d6+3 = 6.5 * .7 = 4.55
= 9.1
Level 11-19 (20 Str/Dex)
6.3 + 5 = 11.3 * .6 = 6.78
3+5 = 8 *.6 = 4.8
= 25.14
3.5+5 = 8.5 * .7 = 5.95
= 23.8
11-19 (20 Str/Dex + damage feat)
6.3+5+10 = 21.3 * 0.35 = 7.455
3+5+10 = 18 * 0.35 = 6.3
= 28.665
3.5+5+10 = 18.5 * .45 = 8.325
= 33.3
*crits no included, but would favor polearm by a ~0 - 0.4 difference, more for champion.
Other factors include polearms OA's, and melee only battlemaster dice.
Crossbows range, Intitive, and +2 AC (from a shield).
IMO: Crossbow expertise + archery + shield + sharpshooter is the all around best fighter. Mostly because i feel hitting something further away is better the controling it once it's close.
Either way, it's definatly sky blue.
Another fun thing about Shield Master is, if I'm reading it correctly, it replicates Evasion 
Lord_Phobetor wrote:
Got it! I now feel comfortable rating Crossbow Expertise Sky Blue - your descriptions helped me understand the usefulness of the feat.
Please do critique my ratings for the rest of them. I know feats are pretty contentious, so let me know if I've missed or overvalued something.
One thing I don't like about EK is that it doesn't seem War Magic plays nicely with one of the main perks of Fighter, Extra Attack. I want to play an EK because I really liked Swordmage in 4E and this is very similar. In doing so though, it seems at some point, I should not cast cantrips because then I won't get to take advantage of the Extra Attack(s).
Or am I misunderstanding how that works?
lokisapocalypse wrote:
I have a brief question about the Eldritch Knight. I've built a tiefling fighter for this, and currently have him in chain & shield, using a longsword and Dueling style.
Now, I get spells at level 3, but I can't cast with both sword & shield until 4 at the earliest (first chance to pick up the War Caster feat). So at 3, it looks like I spend a level either ditching the shield, or going very sparingly with the spells, right?
Thanks for your time.
Ghorrin
Ghorrin wrote:
Defensive Dualist should be blue for high level sword & board. You don't neccicaraly need to be Dex based, since rapier does as much as a longsword and can be swung with Str. Yes, it's only 1 attack, but stopping 1 attack per turn is nothing to scoff at.
For instance, your fighting a dragon. He hits you 3 times for 20 damage. You use your reaction to stop 1 of them, reducing the damage you took by 1/3.
At low levels, it's more likely to be wasted though, so wait till ~+4 or so, getting other things first.
I'd rate dual wielder purple.
Durable is blue if you have high (17, or 19) Con. And red with low (11, 13) Con.
Magic Initiate is not highlighted.
Heavy armor mastery works better for 2-handers, since they will get hit more (shield has more AC, and ranged is further away). They also don't get too many other defensive options.
I am thinking of making a battle master fighter "swashbuckler": dex-based fighter with a rapier and shield in light armor. I am looking at rogue level 2 for cunning action. I am also wondering if maybe I should throw in a few more rogue levels to boost sneak attack and get other benefits. I'll be starting at level 1 and likely playing through at least level 12. Questions:
1. When should I take those rogue levels?
2. How many rogue levels should I take?
Take 9 rogue levels. Take them after you hit Fighter 11. Because really, you want three attacks to trigger your Sneak Attack. As for why 9 in rogue? It's more varied and outdamages a further 9 in Fighter.
ppaladin123 wrote:
Always start as a Fighter, though. Because CON save proficiency >>>>> DEX save proficiency.
I'd progress as Fighter 5, then Rogue 2, then from there either Fighter to 11 and Rogue the rest, or just Rogue the rest.
Fighter to 5 for 2 attacks, or 6 if you want the feat/stat bump, then rogue 5 for 3d6 sneak and uncanny dosge, then fighter 11 for 3 attacks, then whatever, probably doesn't matter as campaigns likely won't go that long.
slaughterj wrote:
Assuming a lvl 16 character.
Lvl 5 fighter and lvl 11 rogue does about 29.525 dmg assuming duelist style and battle master fighter path and 50% chance to hit with no advantage. No rogue path assumptions were made.
Lvl 11 fighter lvl 5 rogue will do 28.51125 dpr under the same assumptions.
It really just depends in if you like the lvl 6 to 11 features of the rogue or fighter better
And there you go. I like the initiative and skills bump from remarkable athlete and the extra fighter ability (likely +1AC), etc., as well as the ability to either focus damage or spread it among foes instead of wasted overkill, which makes you much more effective overall. If you are going fully ranged without skulker, or really want evasion and reliable talent, maybe more rogue levels is ones preference, but otherwise more fighter is good.
On the other hand, going Rogue-heavy for a massive hit means you actually have a decent chance to disrupt enemy mages' concentration.
And less than 5% of your attacks will be against a concentrating caster.
slaughterj wrote:
Obviously it varies, and as you note, 3 attacks would be better against lower AC foes, so it seems roughly even as to AC between the two, meaning more attacks allows better distribution and less overkill in general.
Can one of you math wizzes do math on a 2 weapon using 1/2 Orc champion vs GWF thanks
kave99 wrote:
mostly I'm interested in maximizing the 1/2 Orc racial benefits and the champion seams to be the class to do it. So I'm trying to to see how uncompetitive the 2 weapon 1/2 Orc fighter is or do the radical bonus help mitigate the un optomised build of the 2 weapon style so yes put it up agenst the optimum builds
For simplification, I will assume you have 12 chances off 20 to hit the target. If you only have 9/20, it will add 2-3 damage overall without affecting ratios.
GWF increases average damage by 1/2 (d4) to 5/6 (d12).
This also assume everything hits. Multiplying everything by 60% to account for misses won't change how they compare.
At level 15, 3 of your hits are crit, or 25% of your 12 hits. We will divide the crit bonus by 4 to spread it across all hits.
- 2d6+5 GWF damage = 7 + 2*2/3 + 5 (+ 7 crit) -> 15.083 average per hit
- 1d12+5 GWF damage = 13/2 + 5/6 + 5 (+ 13 crit) -> 15.583 average per hit
- 1d10+5 GWF/PM damage = 11/2 + 4/5 + 5 (+ 11 crit) -> 14.05 average per hit
- 1d4+5 GWF/PM damage = 5/2 + 1/2 + 5 (+ 5 crit) -> 9.25 average per hit
- 1d8+5 DW damage = 9/2 + 5 (+ 9 crit) -> 11.75 average per hit
- 1d6+5 TWF damage = 7/2 + 5 (+ 7 crit) -> 10.25 average per hit
Note that champion's extra crits is close enough to battlemaster's dice. As an half-orc, you can choose whichever you want.
At level 15, if everything hits :
Best great weapon does 46.75 per round
Polearm Master does 51.4 per round
Dual Wielder does 47 per round
TWF does 41 per round
tl;dr
You do 10-14% more damage with great weapons than with 2 weapons.
bid wrote:
Thank you for this guide. It is a grest resource.
One thing you may want to point out in your Feats Section (V) is that the use of feats is optional. There is no guarantee that a DM will allow the use of feats in his/her game. I think most DMs do allow them, but players should be aware that a DM is under no obligations to allow feats.
PHB, page 165: "At certain levels, your class gives you the Ability Score Improvement feature. Using the optional feats rule, you can forgo taking that feature to take a feat of your choice instead..."
I mention this, as just this last week, I played under a DM who does not use feats in his game.
I would never play a fighter with a DM who didn't allow feats.
Oooh 7 ability bumps! I just can't wait until my wisdom hits 12!
1eejit wrote:
Thanks guys
Thanks guys
1eejit wrote:
mellored wrote:
Concentration Casters are also owned by DMs who don't allow feats (hopefully they still at least allow multiclassing).
Yeah, pretty much. Sorcerers would obviously still come away sitting pretty. The Paladin would probably do OK. All other concentration casters would be SOL.
FrogReaver wrote:
Bid, what u did was correct. I'm sorry. I didn't realize u compensated by upping the effective crit chance to 25% as opposed to 15%
Featless game is kind of better balanced with dual wielding as several strength based feats are more or less feat taxes.
FrogReaver wrote:
Bid, is there a way to use your method to compare a rogue using sneak attack vs a fighter?
FrogReaver wrote:
1eejit wrote:
bid wrote:
FrogReaver wrote:
Koga305 wrote:
Probably better off wizard 9/EK11.
Then you can keep Int for all your spells instead of needing yet another stat.
mellored wrote:
I wrote up Cantrip ratings for the Eldritch Knight; review it up!
Finieous wrote:
Koga305 wrote:
Finieous wrote:
Can see it being especially favourable with Fighter/Rogue Sword 'n' Board-ers.
Yunru wrote:
Koga305 wrote:
Eldritch Knight spells up to level 1 are up; check them out!
This is one area where I definitely need feedback - it's hard to judge the opportunity cost of a Fighter's regular attacks versus the EK's spells. A little help from the number crunchers, please?
It really depends on the level, and your Int.
18 dex, 14 int, archery style.
1d8+4 * 70% (archery) = 5.95
2d10 * 50% = 5.5
So firebolt isn't worth while from. Though it's close, and if you didn't have archery style, or lower Dex/Higher Int.
I would only use it as a ranged backup for Str builds. And even then, javalins.
mellored wrote:
Yunru wrote:
IxidorRS wrote:
Actually, since you get a third cantrip at 10, picking up poision spray would be ideal.
And you can retrain too.
Though i don't know why you call it a ranged weapon, it's range is only 10'.
mellored wrote:
IxidorRS wrote:
mellored wrote:
Koga305 wrote:
MightyThokk wrote:
I think it's reasonable to rate spells assuming Warcaster. Or at least add a conditional rating.
Yunru wrote:
Yeah but that armor bonus though. Assuming you max Dex then Con you've 20 AC by 13. 22 if you add a shield.
Koga305 wrote:
You should definitely add information about Hand of Vecna. Because that now exists in the game fighters may want to go entirely Dex until they get the Hand of Vecna.
....
Ok, I'm being totally facetious. Nice guide.
(If a fighter at my table tried to game the system by taking low strength he'd never see the Gauntlets. "Oh, I thought you didn't want Strength so I didn't bother putting that item in the hoard.")
Elfcrusher wrote:
But yes, definitely one to put in your Builds section: Crossbow + Shield Human (Variant) Fighter who starts as a Barbarian. By level 13 you've 22 AC and maxed Dex and Con. By level 15 you've completed the set with Sharpshooter (or level 17 if you don't start as a variant human). You of course start with Crossbow Expert. I'd mock one up except it's ludicrously simple for how effective it is.
IxidorRS wrote:
War Magic is great, but depending on how many attacks you get, attacking can still be the right option.
Magic Initiate does get you Eldricth Blast without a dip, though, which is very nice with Action Surge at later levels, even without Agonizing Blast, if you're in a situation where you need a ranged weapon. Since it sounds like you're going two-handed, this isn't as much of an issue for you and a longbow will likely be about as good for you (or slightly worse if you've got less than +2 DEX).
And it allows you to take a cantrip or two for purely RP/non-combat reasons, which is interesting.
So, with my Eldritch Knight, I got a Headband of Intellect. So, now my INT is 19. I'm level 3.
So now I'm thinking about taking Observant at some point to grab the 20. I probably wouldn't have considered it before this.
Also, I think I'm underrating Magic Initiate for Dex Fighters. You can get to AC 18 with Mage Armor (20 with shield), and it gets you two more cantrips to play with.
Currently STR 10, DEX 16, CON 14, INT 19(16), WIS 10, CHA 8
So what I'm thinking at this point is to grab War Caster at 4, Magic Initiate at 6, Dex+2 at 8 and 10, Observant at 12. The rest I guess I'll boost my CON score.
If I get some kind of magic armor item or something I guess I'll skip MI and boost CON sooner.
Thoughts?
I revised my ratings for first-level spells and added a section on choosing (non-magical) equipment. Check it out!
An edit in the Shield rating. The feat is War Caster, not War Magic.
The ratings look good to me.
Stats for an EK High Elf
Str:10
Con:14
Dex: 16
Int:14
Wis:12
Cha:10
Prob going Scimitar and Studded Leather and not sure on the Cantrip.
Good? Bad? Meh?
Also loving the guide.
Rapier* not Scmitar.
And Alt stat block is
Str: 14
Con:14
Dex:14
Int:14
Wis:10
Cha:10
Long Sword and scale.
jeremyc13 wrote:
jeremyc13 wrote:
Jeremy, I'd go for your first set of stats as Strength just doesn't help if you're going Dex (which is a better option as a High Elf, anyway). Rapier and shield is good (assuming you're going Dueling) but you'll want a longbow or heavy crossbow for a backup ranged weapon. For your cantrip, a bow attack will be much better than Fire Bolt etc, so go for a good utility like Minor Illusion or Mage Hand. Prestidigitation can be a lot of fun too!
Thokk 1: Maaaaaybe? At the moment iM just planning out a 1-10 fighter with EK. would Fighter 11, Wizard 9 be a good deal?
Thokk 2: It looooooks like the Dex build is winning out. I like my characters with big beefy swords, but Rapier vs Longsword just isnt all that impressive on the long sword side. Maybe if we get a sword mage it'll make more sense but for now the Dex build is just plain better. (Also I really should get more in touch with the rapier, im accutally pretty good with one in RL. If I had found myself Fencing at 12 instead of 22 I could have been a real competitor Im told.)
Annnd Koga. -minor squee for getting a response form the dude who made the guide (Or Dudette, dude is just easier to type)-
Thanks. ^_^
Would eventually grabbing fire bolt just be a terrible idea? part of me likes/wants to have it.
Looked through the completed spell selection, looks good so far. ^__^
Fire Bolt gets better once you gain access to War Magic, so it's definitely justifiable. Also, if you want a Fighter/Wizard multiclass 11/9 is probably the way to go. I'll get to that multiclass section eventually! *shakes fist*
Also, I am in fact a dude (although I appreciate that you didn't assume). Thanks for the compliment on the spell selection, but it'll be a long way to go before I knock them all out.
Also minor question:
On Shocking Grasp, you have it set up as black, and then say that in an armor heavy campaign that its better
If you're going shield+sword, having Fire Bolt or one of other ranged cantrips isn't terrible for situations where you're going to be goin from ranged to melee quickly as donning and doffing your shield takes an entire fricking action.
Also Im still not quite sold on MC 9 levels of Wizard. So feel free to sell or bash.
So Firebolt: Worth picking up, even as a Dex EK
Def go Sword and Shield (as I seem to have no reason not to go that way. in addition to having 0 reason to go two hand, even if I wasnt going for a Dex build.) And Duelist option, cause I AM using a Rapier.
Studded Leather, cause duh. If I am going to have +5 Dex, I might as well get it all.
Any particular feats worth grabbing for ths build you think?
jeremyc13 wrote:
jeremyc13 wrote:
Mmmk.
Assumption time, that with a Shield I can still cast spells, but drawing a crossbow is pretty much not going to happen.
So shocking grasp, not a bad early level cantrip, but so-so once I start getting spare swings on a regulart basis. But to take proper advantage of the shield/cantrip cast I want to take a ranged spell early on. (Prob my level 1 spell slot from my racial.)
Great guide!
I'm in the process of making a human fighter.
I have a few questions:
If I want to gain a feat wouldnt it be best to do that at 4th level and only lose 2 ability score improvement rather then being a variant human and losing 4 ability score points? I would want to add some points later to max out my strength. Why would I go variant human? If i was to go Variant human and take the 'great weapon master feat' & Great weapon fighting + Great sword. Is that a better move then the 4 points to abilitys that arnt my main 2 ? (str + con)
Also I have a half orc sword and board champion fighter in plate. love him. but this new campaign I was asked if I could play a fighter (which i love playing) but dont want to make him the same. I was going to go human fighter great sword with breast plate, so i can move in stealth and I'm playing a different type of char then my half orc. I was also going to make him a battlemaster. He doesnt have to be OP but I still want to be a dangerous player. Havnt made him yet so more then willing to change race etc (cant be dragonborn or tiefling)
Whats your thoughts?
Thanks again for the guide !!!
Shogun_Assassin wrote:
One problem I am having with fighter is any fighter that is not using great weapon master or crossbow expert really starts to fallbehind damage wise. Dex based fighters seem semi pointless.
Polearm fighter and shield master ones are also decent as well of course. Dex based fighter in melee just seems weak.
Didn't bother to read through the entire thread to see if someone else mentioned it, but the fighter doesn't get Persuasion as a skill choice as noted in the guide. The only CHA-based skill available by default is Intimidation.
Dyndrilliac wrote:
mellored wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
mellored wrote:
LupusRegalis wrote:
mellored wrote:
Coredump00 wrote:
FrogReaver wrote:
I don't think the issue is being OP or not, but rather the internal power balance isn't very good so the same feats are being taken over and over.
I think the way they could have changed it, is to have two separate feat lists. So on certain levels you can take ASI or 'combat' feats, and other levels would get a 'non-combat' feat.
Not proposing this as a refined and completed concept..... just an idea of how to make those second-class feats more likely to be utilized.
Coredump00 wrote:
I preferseperating comabt and non combat options like 2E or my home brew. The feats are more or less the ame in concept to 3.5 (I rewrote them all and ditched the crap ones) but classe like the rogue get bonus skill training and focus type feats in addition to a few martial and 1 feat/2 leels everyone gets.
5E problem is the game is heavily combat focused (look at the class abilities) and there are some combat feats that are out right better than the others AKA the idiot feats.
They either need to have seperate combat and non combat resources or have somethign like Star Wars Saga where skill use is more important, non combat resources are more abundent and skill have combat and non combat applications (example pilot, mechanics) to provide incentive for PCs to take them.
Dyndrilliac wrote:
mellored wrote:
Whew! It's been nearly a month since I updated the guide. This time, I've added second-level spells for the Eldritch Knight, and boy are there a lot of them! I'm not 100% certain my ratings are correct or take everything into account, so as always I'd appreciate any critique you all can offer.
I've also been thinking about what I want to put in the "FAQ" and "Builds and Combos" section.
Builds I might want to cover:
1-3 "basic rules only" builds (archer+ sword-and-board + two-weapon fighter?), with suggestions to expand for feats and possibly multiclassing
Two-handed damage dealer
Polearm wielder
Defensive (Sentinel, etc.) Fighter
Shield + Hand Crossbow archer (not sure if this one is still applicable - I recall a recent Sage advice indicating the Crossbow Expert feat might require a second weapon to get the bonus action attack)
Grappler
"Mage Knight" (EK with support spells)
Fighter/Wizard multiclass
Stealthy Fighter
Dagger thrower (?)
Fighter/Rogue multiclass (how do you deal the best damage?)
EK/War Cleric build suggested by Fineous
GladiusLegis's True Assassin
Suggestions for builds, criticism of the above builds, or FAQ ideas are all appreciated!
Continual flame, being permanate, doesn't take your concnetration, or even an action. Plus, you can simply make a bunch, and the swap it out next level. Plus, who doesn't want a flaming sword.
Though, still generally best to let someone else take this.
Cloud of daggers does can combo it with sential or grapple. Though given your only 1/3 caster, i would avoid any damage spells, as they simply won't keep up. Even AoE spells arn't going to see much use. Utility spells, and ones that effect a d20 (shield) are much more valuble.
And overall i think you should point out the other spells that don't need Int. Perhaps stick a little * next to them. Otherwise an EK can get quite MAD.
mellored wrote:
cloud of daggers doesn't have an Int requirement (no *)
mellored wrote:
Koga305 wrote:
Added third-level EK spells! There are definitely a lot of really good options at that level.
mellored wrote:
FrogReaver wrote:
Acid splash + eldrich strike, at level 11-16.
Assuming 50% base chance.
3d8+15 = 28.5 * 0.5 = 14.25
1d8+5 = 9.5 * .6 = 4.75
3d6 = 10.5 * 0.5 * .5 = 2.625
3d6 = 10.5 * 0.75 * .5 = 3.9375
= 11.3125
With archery style.
28.5 * .6 = 17.1
9.5 * .6 = 5.7
10.5 * .5 * .4 = 2.1
10.5 * .75 * .6 = 4.725
= 12.525
Nope. Still only good vs 2 targets.
Lance of faith...
1d8.... = 14.25
1d8... = 4.75
3d8 = 13.5 * .5 * .5 = 3.375
13.5 * .75 * .5 = 5.0625
= 13.1875
with archery style
= 17.1
= 5.7
13.5 * .5 * .4 = 2.7
13.5 * .75 * .6 = 6.075
= 14.475
Nope.
imaginary d10 save.
base 14.25
4.75
16.5 * .5 *.5 = 4.125
16.5 * .75 *.5 = 6.1875
= 15.0625
with archery style
weapon = 17.1
5.7
16.5 * .5 *.4 = 3.3
16.5 * .75 *.6= 7.425
=16.425
Kinda.
So yea, posion spray is the only one.
For Multiclassing Warlock 3 is insane on a Sharpshooter build. The Darkness + Devil's Sight combo undoes the penalty of the -5 acc and then some. Following the suggested layout (6 encounters, 2 short rests a day) you should have enough spell slots to have it in every fight too. Of course it might not be that even but that can be countered by being an Eldritch Knight.
EDIT: And Great Weapon Masters too I guess, although other players might not like fighting enemies in the dark (even considering the most it'd disadvantage them is a loss of advantage).
Koga - Great guide... thanks. Just looking at some of the feats comparatively and have a couple of minor comments for your consideration:
Lucky feels light blue to me. It is great when everyone is down and you need that last hit to finish a fight or when you fail a game changing save. I typically only spend luck points when it really counts.
I would list Resilient (Wisdom) as blue, better with an odd Wisdom score.
Similarly I would list Resilient (Dexterity) as better, with an odd Dexterity score.
Lucky is rated correctly. It's a solid feat to take if you have the room, but it does not define a build like Sharpshooter, Crossbow Expert, Sentinel, Polearm Master, and Great Weapon Master all do.
Resilient (WIS) does need to be sky blue at least. I'd debate rating it gold even. WIS saves are a Fighter's big weakness defensively, and that shores it up. And a Fighter should absolutely not take Resilient for anything other than WIS.
Koga305 wrote:
I, too, am interested in reading more on Fighter multiclassing options. I'm also thinking of dipping my Champion Dex Bow fighter into Rogue. I'm considering only going to Rogue 2 because all I really want is the Cunning Action for increased mobility. I'm most concerned about the timing aspect. My current plan is to go Fighter to level 5, get the two Rogue levels and then finish out Fighter to 18.
In general, Extra Attack is mechanically superior to almost all other options for boosting DPR. If you don't care about DPR, then it doesn't really matter which level you decide to multi-class at.
Either way...just my 2 cp
Something convenient you could add is beside the spell lists(by level) could be what level you can learn those spells.
Example:
Level 1 Spells(Eldritch Knight level 3)
Abjuration/Evocation
Alarm. Warding a campsite can come in handy, and it's a rare utility spell in the Abjuration/Evocation options. If you have a ritual caster in the party that can use this, let them take it.
Burning Hands.* A decent area of effect that can damage multiple creatures and scales. Be careful where you cast this, however - you don't want to hurt your allies.
Chromatic Orb.* Requires an expensive material component, and the variable damage doesn't compensate for this being more-or-less inferior to your standard attacks.
Mage Armor. This is better than .....
Level 1 Spells - Eldritch Knight level 3
Abjuration/Evocation
Alarm. Warding a campsite can come in handy, and it's a rare utility spell in the Abjuration/Evocation options. If you have a ritual caster in the party that can use this, let them take it.
Burning Hands.* A decent area of effect that can damage multiple creatures and scales. Be careful where you cast this, however - you don't want to hurt your allies.
Chromatic Orb.* Requires an expensive material component, and the variable damage doesn't compensate for this being more-or-less inferior to your standard attacks.
Mage Armor. This is better than .....
Something like that. But that's just an opinion. Would be nice.
Have anyone properly tested Heavy Armor Master at higher lvls, a bit more than theory crafting. Damage seems to scale with multiattack, and even thou many monster does allot of melee damage, most of them are "bosses". You always have does lowly monsters dealing normal damage, even at higher lvls, so I don’t think you can just count monsters and make stat after that. So how good is it really? I only used it on low lvls and its great, and lets not forget it grants a +1 to str, a big boost to dwarves or Half Orcs that start with 17 i str.
Having said that, I find it really strange that it doesn’t work on magic weapons. Don’t see how magic weapons pierce armor in yet another way, beside that increased accuracy and damage it already get for being a magic weapon. No reason for this from a balance perspective, as monsters starts getting the magic weapon property at higher lvls, and even less of a reason from a realism/logic standpoint.
Hi folks,
I still exist! Just got tied up writing other things and with real life. I'll come back and write some more multiclassing stuff, I promise (maybe talk about magic items a bit because of the DMG release as well)!
(Also, if you're interested I started a blog! It has some monster building walkthroughs using the rules from the DMG and will have more content - I'm going for a post a week for this year.)
Also, @Herman that's a good idea! I will add it when I get around to it.
thanks for the guide
would be interesting to discuss the pro and cons of Champion vs Battlemaster
i think that the Campion is less versaile but the damage and self healing is great too
Seuleslintan wrote:
guachi wrote:
Koga305 wrote:
I've never seen it mentioned on any thread discussing Edritch Knights, so I thought I'd point it out here in case you want to add it to your guide.
In the equipment section, make a special mention that the Eldritch Knight can use Spell Scrolls, and other spellcaster restricted items like wands.
The EK has a spell list, its the same as the wizards, so he is able to use all wizard spell scrolls (though there may be a spell failure chance for higher level scrolls)
The EK is a spellcaster, so he'd be able to use any magic item, notibly wands and staffs, that have a spellcaster only restriction.
Good guide
Hi everyone, I'm trying to start a Half-Elf BM Fighter/ Thief Rogue. The group I play with is all for fun and the DM is really laid back. Would like some opinions on how I should play the levels, what feats would be best, skill layout, and things like that. I've been playing a level 2 Half-Elf Rogue and we usually only play small quest, so xp has been slow, DM told me if I wanted to switch anything up I could and keep my level and stats. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Wanna start out as a fighter for the better HP and hit dice.
Koga305 wrote:
ChrisKlink wrote:
mellored wrote:
Assuming that's correct, it's definitely not the decisive difference that I was hoping to see. I have to agree with you that consistency would probably be the more prudent route. Also not factored in here would be the stabilizing effect of Great Weapon Fighting - which, I expect, would push the needle a little further towards the 2d6.
Great Sword, assuming Two Hand Weapon Style deals 7.8 damage on a hit, average. It deals 15.6 damage on a crit, average. For a Half-Orc, that becomes 7.8 / 19.5
Greataxe, assuming Two Hand Weapon Style deals 6.95 damage on a hit, average. It deals 13.9 damage on a crit, average. For a Half-Orc, that becomes 6.95 / 20.85
If we assume the fighter hits on a die roll of 8 or higher and only crits on a 20, then:
Great Sword deals 5.07 damage per attack (5.27 for a Half-Orc)
Great Axe deals 4.52 damage per attack (4.87 for a Half-Orc)
The Champion 19-20 crit works out as:
Great Sword deals 5.46 damage per attack (5.85 for a Half-Orc)
Great Axe deals 4.87 damage per attack (5.56 for a Half-Orc)
We really need an update to the Eldritch Knight's spell guide for the Elemental Evil spells. Absorb Elements is a flat out gift for EKs.
Here are the EK spells and my badly informed opinion:
Cantrips
A lot of fun, role playing spells for characters focusing on elemental magic. There's something here for everyone.
Create bonfire * (conjuration) - Make a bonfire in one 5x5 square. Anyone in that space, entering that space or ending their turn must make a DEX save or take damage. A very interesting control spell, but it's dependency on a DEX save means you need some INT investment.
Control flames (transmutation) - Prestidigitation for fire. Great for role-playing a fire themed EK. But you need a fire to begin with, which means you should have another fire based cantrip. Still, if you are a fire themed EK, you can use Firebolt for ignition and Control Flames to impress the natives.
Frostbite *(evocation) - CON save or take cold damage and disadvantage on their next swing. Interesting, but the folks taking swings at you are likely to have high CON, so connecting with may take some effort.
Gust** (transmutation) - Blow stuff around. Great for role playing and a creative character could use it in combat. It's push effect is a STR save, rather than the opponent choosing Athletics or Acrobatics, which means you can blow high DEX opponents all over the map.
Mold earth (transmutation) - Good role playing effect and you can create or dispell Difficult Terrain at will.
Shape water (transmutation) - The water RP option. Good RP effects, but your one combat ability is to freeze one 5x5 square of water, but only if there are no creatures present. Underwhelming.
Thunderclap *)evocation) - Thunderwave's little brother. Everyone within 5 feet of you must make a CON save or take damage. CON isn't great, but an at-will area of effect spell is worth a blue at least.
1st Level Spells
Two real standouts at this level. You should really have one of these as your starting first level spell.
Absorb elements (abjuration) - Reaction to take half damage from an elemental attack, resistance to that damage type until the start of your next turn; AND you're first melee hit next turn does extra elemental damage. Situational, but elemental attacks are so common and it is so thematically appropriate it is darn near gold.
Earth tremor * evocation) - A big ten foot radius area of effect, DEX save or take damage and get knocked prone, plus the area can become difficult terrain. Hoo boy!
2nd Level Spells
Given the poor selection of second level spells in the PHB, I think everyone will be sporting Agnazzar's Scorcher this season.
Aganazzar’s scorcher * (evocation) - Wanna be a Dragonborn for a turn? Line area of effect save or burn spell. There are very few reasons not to hit someone with your sword. Area of effect is one of those reasons.
Snilloc’s snowball swarm * (evocation) - Straight up damage. Hitting multiple opponents doesn't really come into play, since it's only a 5' sphere. Still, the idea of magically pelting some creature with hundreds of snowballs is hysterical.
3rd Level Spells
Control focused EKs love the Elemental Evil spells. Walling off the battlefield is the focus this level.
Melf’s minute meteors ** (evocation) - Concentration for damage over time, long range, plus a save only reduces damage by half. EKs are fighters, and do single target damage really well. The magic is there for things fighters don't handle well - hordes and spellcasters. Fireball and Counterspell work better here.
Wall of sand (evocation) - Change the battlefield, wall off a horde, make them work to get to you. If you need battlefield control, this is your spell. Note that this blocks line of sight, but doesn't slow missile weapons.
Wall of water (evocation) - Very similar to Wall of Sand, but it's easier for creatures to pass through. On the other hand, if you or someone in your party has spells that do cold damage, you can turn the thing into a wall of ice in a few turns, making it potentially more useful. A clever player could get a lot of mileage out of Wall of Water/Frostbite. But that player should really be a Wizard or Sorcerer, not an EK.
4th Level Spells
Damage is the focus here. I'm not sure if damage is what you want for this level. But if you do, Storm Sphere is your best bet.
Storm sphere * (evocation) - A big mess o' control. 20' sphere area of effect, with save vs damage, lightning bolts and disadvantage on Perception. If you want damage at this level, this is a good option.
Vitriolic sphere * (evocation) - A fireball for acid themed characters. If you invested in INT, this is one of your best pure damage option.
Mandarin wrote:
Mandarin wrote:
Mandarin wrote:
Coredump00 wrote:
Seuleslintan wrote:
Koga305 wrote:
Koga305 wrote:
I don't understand why dual wield gets such bad rep. If you are a dex based fighter, which I acknowledge may in itself not be optimal, it holds up well to sword and board.
You will need to be human and take a feat at 1st level to get full enjoyment from it, but this is I feel a fairly classic approach anyway. The way I stack it up dual wielder vs duelling sword and boarder. The :
1st lvl (Dex 16 [+3 dmg], Rapier + either Shield or 2nd Rapier - S'n'B gets +2dmg pr attack from duelling style. Dual gets +3dmg to bonus attack from dualwielding style)
- S'n'B: 1d8+5 / +2 AC / + Feat of choice
- Dual: 2d8+6 / +1 AC
4th lvl (Dex 18 [+4 dmg])
- S'n'B: 1d8+6 / +2 AC / + Feat of choice
- Dual: 2d8+8 / +1 AC
5th lvl (Extra Attack)
- S'n'B: 2d8+12 / +2 AC / + Feat of choice
- Dual: 3d8+12 / +1 AC
6th lvl (Dex 20 [+5 dmg])
- S'n'B: 2d8+14 / +2 AC / + Feat of choice
- Dual: 3d8+15 / +1 AC
11th lvl (2nd Extra Attack)
- S'n'B: 3d8+21 / +2 AC / + Feat of choice
- Dual: 4d8+20 / +1 AC
What the S'n'Ber has on the dualwielder is a free bonus action when applicable, +1 to AC and a feat of choice that can do whatever.
The Dual wielder remains a better damage dealer all the way, remaining roughly 1d8+1 better. And that's not even factoring in the fact that the dualwielder, having more attacks, is more likely to hit more often and thus get in more damage that way.
To me, the two options stack up very nicely against each other. I don't really see the suboptimal facet of dualwielding once you've decided to go dex-based.
I'm back!
Updated the Races to cover the DMG, Elemental Evil, and Unearthed Arcana options. I hope to do a quick run through the spells and add Elemental Evil ones sometime in the next few days.
Aarakocra. (EE) Flight is an amazing ability for any ranged Fighter (just don't get knocked out and fall!), and the Dexterity bonus synergizes perfectly; the rest is gravy.
mellored wrote:
It looks like the Eldritch Knight offers lots of possibilities to build different kinds of arcane gishes. In a glance, I can see three options:
Eldritch Knight 20 is meant to be a full-fighter (4 attacks, 2 Action Surge and 3 Indomitable) with some spell casting ability (a limited version of a Wizard 7) with 4th level spells, plus Eldritch Knight class features.
Eldritch Knight 12/Wizard 8 seems to be a 50%/50% fighter-caster approach. Since every 3 Eldritch Knight levels counts as 1 spellcaster level, so we have 8 Wizard levels + 4 caster levels (12/3=4) for a total of 12 spell caster levels. Since Eldritch Knights shares the same spell list and spellcasting ability with Wizards, at level 20 you are basically a Fighter 12/Wizard 12 character. Three attacks, 1 Action Surge, Weapon Bond, War Magic, Eldritch Strike and access to level 6th spells. Another plus is that you get 6 ASI... and the Wizard ability to cast Ritual Spells is equal to Ritual Caster Feat, for a total of 7 ASI/Feats.
Eldritch Knight 6/Wizard 14 is the very opposite of the Eldritch Knight 20. With access to 8th level spells (after all you're a level 16 caster), your arcane side is more prominent than your fighting side (specially because you get all the Wizard archetype features at level 14) . And you get 5 ASI (like Wizards and everybody else but fighters). Yet, proficience with all weapons, shields and heavy armor is awesome. Not to mention 2 Attacks, which seems to be good enough to make you comparable with Barbarians, Paladins and Rangers, at least in terms of number of attacks per turn (and let's not forget that 1 Action Surge!). Also, Weapon Bond makes you immune to disarm.
Both multiclass options gives you 7 cantrips, which might be another interesting addition.
4 attacks + 4th level spells X 3 attacks + 6th level spells X 2 attacks + 8th level spells.
Which one is the best? I really don't know. Maybe it's just a matter of taste/style. But all these options seems to be viable, at least in theory.
Did I forget something? Any thoughts?
EK 11/Wiz 9 > 12/8. The 11/9 split gets actual 5th-level spells, as opposed to just the slots. 5th-level spells are better than an extra feat/ASI.
GladiusLegis wrote:
GladiusLegis wrote:
Carlos_Barreto wrote:
abanathie wrote:
The problem with ek11/wis 9 is that you have to be ek11/wis 1 first. So that's 7 levels you don't have wall of force.
Compaired to ek12/wis1 who has the extra feat for 1/3 of the game.
mellored wrote:
Damn, I lost all the text I was typing...
Ok, the problem lies upon the second paragraph of the "Spell slots" at page 164. That makes sense with the Cleric-Wizard or Ranger-Wizard examples. But for Eldritch Knight/Arcane Trickster, that's odd. Yes, I know it's rule as written, but it's still so odd to me that it twist my mind. After all, they all share the same Wizard spell list. The Eldritch Knight/Arcane Trickster has special school restrictions, but I guess that the 1/3 level count would be a payoff for that.
That said, I start to wonder if Eldritch Knight is really an attractive option for Wizard multiclassing, since the sinergizing effect from Eldritch Knight levels doesn't look that appealing, given the rule restriction. A Battle Master 12/Wizard 8 would give you the same spellcasting ability of a level 20 Eldritch Knight, but much broader and an extra cantrip and spell slot. With Int 20 and 8 Wizard levels, you could prepare 13 spells, which is on pair with the Eldritch Knight 13 spells know. Of course, you would loose one Action Surge, two indomitable, some later class features and what is worse, one extra attack. That's a lot of stuff!! On the other hand, You would have Know your Enemie features, five d10 superiority dices and seven maneuvers, plus some wizard features.
Or you could go for Battle Master 11/Wizard 9, trading one ASI/Feat for level 6th spells.
Alternatively for two attacks, you could go Battle Master 6/Wizard 14 or Battle Master 7/Wizard 13, depending whether you preffer Know your Enemy feature, one additional superiority die and two extra maneuveurs or level 14 Wizard Archetype feature. I'd choose Battle Master 6/Wizard 14 with Riposte, Menacing Attack and Precision Attack (good combo with Great Weapon Master Feat) or Trip Attack (good for combining with Action Surge). On top of that, you would have plenty of Wizard spells with no school restriction, all while wearing armor (or even heavy armor, if you choose Strenght) and using weapons (possibily a two-handed weapon with Great Weapon Master Feat) with your style of choice.
Of course, all these things are just theories that someone else surely have thought before... but it might be a decent Sword and Sorcery frontline, with in and out-of-combat utilitary.
Criticism are welcome.
GladiusLegis wrote:
Wall of Force, "not all that"? Uh, lol?
GladiusLegis wrote:
I get the hunch, that resilience (dex) is better than what this guide indicate for fighters with shield master. The synergy between a high dex save, and shield masters options to take no damage from a dex save, is too good for a black rating imo. From my experience, reflex saves is quite common, if not the most common save, and the damage you might take from a say, dragons breath, is devastating. You could claim it`s only damage thou, but wisdom saves seems to have more ways to work around, like dispel magic, a spell that almost all casters get (Ranger is the only one without it), and most seem to pick it. Is it that you deem wisdom save that much better/important than dexterity saves, that you only give it a black rating? I assume you can only take the feat once, and that influence the strength of the other.
Mandarin wrote:
What are the best Evocation spells a Eldritch Knight could pick to increase his combat arsenal?
I like these:
Cantrips: Firebolt ; Thunderclap (From Elemental Evil) and Chill Touch
Level 1 - Burning Hands
Level 2 - Scorching Ray
Level 3 - Fireball and Melf's Minute Meteors (from Elemental Evil)
Level 4 - Fireshield
Fire is - at least till this moment - the element with the biggest number of damage dealing spells when compared with other elements. Yet, it's the most common elemental resistance you'll find out there. With so many fire spells (six), the Elemental Adept Feat seems to be a great deal (and to turn those nasty 1's into 2's is a nice extra). I think it could be a blue-ranked feat for Eldritch Knights with an elemental theme. Yeah, a swordsman with a mix of fire mage is cool.
i think we need an update on the multiclassing section of the build, especially considering the EK.
I think the EK is enough of a Fighter as is. I like using the spells for other stuff.
when psionics actually get realeased, i'm quite sure there will be some nice synergy between the fighter (any path actuslly) and the mystyc (immortal or whatever the new psionic warrior gets called).
as it is now with only the 5 levels mystic released, the path of the immortal seems VERY good to multiclass dip for a fighter
I can't imagine that Lethal Strike is going to stay as it is for the final version. Right now it's just plain broken in half.
GladiusLegis wrote:
On the plus side it's good even stand alone.
Yunru wrote:
Yunru wrote:
Unless you consider the +10 an "additional affect", in which case they take extra samage if they fail their save.
phoenixnemo wrote:
As long as you stick to heavy armour you should be fine. You've got an 18 Strength which means that at level 4 you don't have to worry about taking a stat boost and can instead take a feat (Great Weapon Master or Polearm Master depending on your weapon choice). The 16 in Intelligence will mean that you won't be too shabby with magic so spells like Burning Hands and Thunderwave will be useful to you.
You will have to be careful as you level up though as your abilities have three attack stats: Strength for weapons, Intelligence for EK spells and Constitution for Breath Weapon. You'll be fine for now but as you level you will want to increase you Con and/or Int (after you've got your Str to 20). Because of your low Dex you are also reliant on your magic or thrown weapons for ranged attacks. I would make sure that Firebolt is one of your cantrips as your go to ranged option.
Moonster21 wrote:
What are the thoughts on Fighter (Battle Master) 17/ Cleric (War Domain) 3?
From a new guy perspective, it seems like it would work decent enough.
Still a decent idea.
It also gets you channel divinity, some healing spells, spectral weapon and so on.
It also allows you to not use a polearm and instead allows you to use a great sword.
Even if it not the most optimized fighter, it is reasonable enough to multiclass into war cleric.
I've been looking at creating a Crossbow Battle Master and as someone new to 5e this has been an extremely useful thread for everything fighter, so thanks for that.
i was wondering if the clarifications in the errata and here http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/sageadvice_feats have changed anyone's opinions on the whole concept - now that duel wielding crossbows or the crossbow/shield combo seems against the rules (obviously irrelevant if the DM doesn't care) - and since the close ranged attack feature applies to spells as well does that alter opinions on the Eldritch Knight?
Simply out of disappointment or is there some procedure that negates the issue via dropping the weapon and interacting with object that makes it a moot point anyway (sorry, not played 5e yet - and not played at all since 2e!)? Though I'd imagine that doesn't apply to crossbow/shield.
Ive read (an unhealthy amount) on the topic and the impression I got was that many DMs only allowed it due to lack of clarification either way. I can imagine still allowing duel wielding for flavour sake, but if I end up as DM (fingers crossed that won't happen!) I'd personally have a hard time allowing shield/crossbow/sharpshooter (without penalties anyway) - but maybe this isn't the right place for that particular discussion.
I just wanted to know whether the ratings currently given regarding ranged fighters are taking this all into consideration or not (including the ranged spell attack benefit), or if it's relavent at all.
Koga305 wrote:
I think it meshes amazingly well
DrOct wrote:
The argument I could see against dipping Barbarian 2 strictly for Reckless Attack is that you only have 2 rages per day, so only 2 battles where you have the damage resistance to mitigate the risk of using Reckless Attack.
GladiusLegis wrote:
FrogReaver wrote:
Yunru wrote:
ArialBlack wrote:
It's not something you'd always use, but it's something you can sometimes use.
Paticuarly since dead things don't hit you back.
Or maybe the rogue has sentinal.
Noctaem wrote:
DrOct wrote:
mellored wrote:
How would you rate a shillelagh fighter? If you take one dip in Cleric with nature domain, you can get that cantrip, in addition to some neat spells, or just can just dip in druid (not as good imo). I am just thinking about such a figher, wielding quarterstaff/shield, and having polearm master.
Mandarin wrote:
there is something to be said for Wis over Str. not a huge amount, but a some. though Dex is still king.
that said, i agree you really only want to do it if it's a roleplaying concept, or if your party otherwise is missing perception.
also, you can take a feat instead of a level. fighters get plenty of those.
Thank you for this amazing guide. One thing I feel needs adding is the very obvious (Yet I never drew the conclusion myself for over a year) synergy with the Battle Master's Precision Attack and the Great Weapon Fighter feat using the -5 to attack for +10 damage option.
It's really powerfull
The OP should really SAVE thi guide and move it to the ENWorld forums, now that thse forums are shutting down.
so much usefull info, it would be a pity to lose it.
I have moved this guide to EN World, here. If the original poster would like to assume control of that thread please just PM me or Morrus at EN World.