Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zerojjc Oct 02, 2015 6:25:19	I'd like to hear from some of you on what you think the best Debuff or Crowd Control build would be? I'm thinking sorta along the lines of a blue deck in MTG. The last class I played in Pathfinder before switching to 5e was a Witch, which was fun with all the curses, cackling, & etc. So I was thinking of starting my next 5e character and making it specifically a chaotic character that likes to screw with the enemies more than just straight up murder them or worrying about highest damage. Lets say its a lvl 5 character and can be multi-classed, what are your opinions on some good builds?   Thanks in advance.
#2 Ralif_Redhammer Oct 02, 2015 7:51:02	Bane is a good debuff spell, but it’s only effective on one person. Same goes for Blindness. My vote for large crowd control is a higher-level casting of the simple Sleep spell.
#3 Tempest_Stormwind Oct 02, 2015 9:22:29	The debuff paradigm is different in 5th - you have fewer overall spells per day (though you max them out quicker, you don't have bonus spell slots from ability scores) and the Concentration mechanic prevents buffstacks (or debuffstacks). Similarly, the action economy is looser, particularly with how it relates to movement.   That said, there are similarities. Look here for a detailed view of how to do this with the wizard, for instance. I'd strongly consider Diviner as my subclass, or at least for a 2-level dip, because you can replace an enemy saving throw roll with a bad foretelling roll using Portent.   The stereotypical debuff classes are warlock (Hex in particular is a classic) and Lore bard (because Cunning Words is awesome.)
#4 zerojjc Oct 02, 2015 13:15:55	Would you mind sharing what you think a good build would be for this style of wizard? Lets say lvl 5 and it can be multiclassed. Race, Stats, Feats (if any), Spells. I just like to hear other peoples opinions and learn from them.
#5 Tempest_Stormwind Oct 02, 2015 13:25:23	zerojjc wrote:
(Reply to #5) zerojjc	Tempest_Stormwind wrote:
#7 Mazzy Oct 04, 2015 23:30:16	1) Wizard 5 (Diviner), Variant Human, Feat: Alertness. Hope for poor rolls on your portent and use them to sabotage enemy saves against Hold Person and Tasha's Hideous Laughter. Use your 3rd level slots for animate dead during downtime and maintain 4 zombies for mobile terrain and grapples and save the rest for Conterspell.    2) Bard 5 (Lore), Half-elf or another variant human with alertness. Get an Instrument of the Bard so all your charm spells must be saved with disadvantage. Use Hypnotic Pattern. Win.   3) Fighter 5 (Battlemaster, Archery), variant human with crossbow expert feat. Use Menacing Attack on melee brutish enemies before they close in so they can't do anything.    4) Fighter 3 (Eldritch Knight, Defense), Wizard 2 (Enchanter). This one is a little strange. Use Hypnotic Gaze to stunlock enemies at will. You will have up to 6 shield spells a day for when you get hit.   Options 1&2 are for more conventional battlefield control. Options 3&4 are more single-target, but less dependant on daily resources and far more durable.
#8 BloodMoon666 Oct 04, 2015 23:43:24	What's the best crowd control? Fireball ;)
#9 Mazzy Oct 05, 2015 14:33:29	BloodMoon666 wrote:
#10 BRJN Oct 05, 2015 18:22:21	BloodMoon666 wrote:
#11 Ashrym Oct 07, 2015 15:47:19	Fireballs only kill monsters much lower CR than the party.  CR2 Ogres live through them when the party is a minimum of 5th level.  Considering it averages 36 damage on a failed save and ogres have 59 hp it takes a lot of luck to use a fireball for crowd control on a group of ogres.  Hit points go up quickly with CR's and AoE damage tends to be restricted to lower hp enemies for crowd control as opposed to a softening salvo (which it does much better).    I prefer action denial CC like hypnotic pattern.
#12 BloodMoon666 Oct 08, 2015 4:56:42	Ashrym - Error 404: joke not found?
#13 Tfuture ago	Hypnotic pattern is pretty damn good, suggestion too (especially with portent)