Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zerojjc Apr 15, 2015 16:39:33	Hey all. I am planning on a character for the next campaign I play and would like some seasoned/expert advice please. I am planning on essentially making a pacifist monk. He will primarily be grappling, pushing, knocking prone, and doing non-lethal damage. He will kill but only when he feels there is no other choice, if it involves killing a beast for food, or any truly evil creatures that he knows is beyond reasoning with such as devils and demons. Im going to list my current thoughts on the character build below and hope you all may have some good advice/edits for him.   Race: Goliath Class: Barbarian / Monk (multiclass) Alignment: LG Background: Acolyte STR: 16 (+3) DEX: 14 (+2) CON: 14 (+2) INT: 8 (-1) WIS: 14 (+2) CHA: 9 (-1)   AC: 14 INI: +2 SPD: 40 Proficiency: +2   (Saves) STR: +5 DEX: +2 CON: +4 INT: -1 WIS: +2 CHA: -1   (Skills) Athletics: 5 Insight: 4 Perception: 4 Survival: 4 Religion: 1   (Attacks) Unarmed Strike Quarterstaff / Spear Net   (Feats & Traits) Goliath: - Natural Athlete = athletics prof. - Stone's Endurance = reaction to reduce damage (1/rest) - Powerful Build = lift, drag, push, carry weight as if one size larger. - Mountain Born = adapted to cold climates. Acolyte: - Shelter of the Faithful = aid from those who share my faith. Barbarian lvl 1: - Rage = 2/day - Unarmored Defense = Con mod to AC (no armor) Monk lvl 1: - Martial Arts = increased unarmed damage, use as a bonus action - Unarmored Defense = Wis mod to AC (no armor) Monk lvl 2: - Ki Points = 2/rest (furry of blows, patient defense, step of the wind) - Unarmored Movement = +10 speed Monk lvl 3: - Extra Ki Point - Deflect Missiles = reaction to reduce ranged damage - Monastic Tradition: Way of the open Hand Monk lvl 4: - Extra Ki Point  - Slow Fall - Trait = Grappler   (Possible low-level magic items) - Cloak of Protection - Gauntlets of Ogre Power - Immovable Rod - Ring of Jumping   I only planned it up to lvl 5 so far. I figured I would start as a Barbarian for the beginning HD and to get the Rage ability which can help a lot when im getting beat on while trying to grapple an opponent. Gaining the bonus unarmed attack action as a lvl 1 Monk would be nice once I grappled the opponent with my first action. Or I should be able to grapple two opponents within my reach, one with each action. So what do you guys think?
#2 RubenRybnikk Apr 15, 2015 17:27:20	Are you only taking Barbarian for the 2 rages a day?
#3 Weedeater Apr 15, 2015 17:59:22	I would honestly just pick one or the other. Probably monk. I'm fact I don't even get why you're getting barbarian except to be better at grappling which is pretty flimsy reasoning since your character seems like he would be the opposite of a barbarian.
#4 MasterNamer Apr 16, 2015 5:53:16	You may be better off going rogue instead of barbarian as you can add expertise to athletics to help your grappling. Also, you may want to check out the grappling guide for some additional inspiration, as it covers the subject quite thoroughly.
(Reply to #2) zerojjc	RubenRybnikk wrote:
#6 Danny_Montanny Apr 16, 2015 10:30:03	Things you need to think about:   Martial Arts allows for an unarmed strike as a bonus action when you use your Attack action with a monk weapon or unarmed strike. Attempting to grapple a creature is not an Attack action with a monk weapon or unarmed strike, so no unarmed strike as a bonus action.   Attempting to grapple a creature uses a special attack granted from using the Attack action. An unarmed strike as a bonus action is not a special attack grated from using the Attack action, so no grappling as a bonus action.   Until you reach level 5 and get the Extra Attack feature you will not be able to grapple and strike a creature on the same turn. The only work around before that is with the Tavern Brawler feat. It allows an attempt to grapple a creature as a bonus action if you used your Attack action with an unarmed strike.
(Reply to #4) zerojjc	MasterNamer wrote:
(Reply to #6) zerojjc	Danny_Montanny wrote:
(Reply to #8) Danny_Montanny	zerojjc wrote:
#10 zerojjc Apr 16, 2015 11:30:53	So if I start with Rogue at lvl one as MasterNamer has mentioned, then here are the changes to my build:   AC: 13   (Saves) STR: +3 DEX: +5 CON: +2 INT: +2 WIS: +2 CHA: -1   (Skills) Athletics: 9 Perception: 8 Acrobatics: 5 Stealth: 5 Insight: 5 Persuasion: 2 Religion: 2   (Feats & Traits) Goliath: - Natural Athlete = athletics prof. - Stone's Endurance = reaction to reduce damage (1/rest) - Powerful Build = lift, drag, push, carry weight as if one size larger. - Mountain Born = adapted to cold climates. Acolyte: - Shelter of the Faithful = aid from those who share my faith. Rogue lvl 1: - Expertise - Sneak Attack = 1d6 - Thieves' Cant Monk lvl 1: - Martial Arts = increased unarmed damage, use as a bonus action - Unarmored Defense = Wis mod to AC (no armor) Monk lvl 2: - Ki Points = 2/rest (furry of blows, patient defense, step of the wind) - Unarmored Movement = +10 speed Monk lvl 3: - Extra Ki Point - Deflect Missiles = reaction to reduce ranged damage - Monastic Tradition: Way of the open Hand Monk lvl 4: - Extra Ki Point  - Slow Fall - Feat = Grappler   This feels like a good idea, having double prof in Athletics means its going to be relatively easy to grapple opponents. And having the Sneak Attack dice will be nice as well to pump up my unarmed attack.
#11 Danny_Montanny Apr 16, 2015 11:14:47	Sadly, unarmed strikes are not finesse weapons on purpose. Yes, Martial Arts allows you to use your Decterity modifier to hit and damage, but that doesn't give them the finesse property. No property, no Sneak Attack.
(Reply to #9) zerojjc	Danny_Montanny wrote:
#13 Danny_Montanny Apr 16, 2015 12:41:10	Here's what I see as your options if you go with the Monk 4 / Rogue 1. One big thing I forgot about above is that you can toally use Flurry of Blows on the same turn as you grapple.   Turn 1: Take the Attack action to grapple.    -and if you like, use Flurry of Blows to make two unarmed strikes as a bonus action. Turn 2: If the target is still grappled take the Attack action to make an unarmed strike (doesn't need to be with a hand).    -and if you like (don't know why you wouldn't), use Martial Arts to make an unarmed strike as a bonus action (again, a headbutt is perfectly aplicable here).       -or instead, use Flurry of blows to make two unarmed strikes as a bonus action (a headbutt and a knee to the crotch for good measure).    -or if you like, Restrain using the Grappler feat.       -and if you like, use Flurry of Blows to make two unarmed strikes as a bonus action.   Now the biggest thing I think you're missing is in your concept with what you have going for you. The Grappler feat gives you advantage to your attack rolls against an opponent you're grappling. Sneak Attack requires advantage and a finesse weapon. You have advantage, but won't stab him with a dagger or short sword even though it's something that might save your life. Just seems like it's a waste. With that being said, if you're never going to go further into Rogue, then I could see him starting as a Rogue, getting sick of the violence and swearing to his new found brotherhood that he won't commit acts of violence ever again. Personally, I prefer a merderous Barbarian / Rogue grappler. That's a guy you don't want to have get his hands on you.
(Reply to #13) zerojjc	Danny_Montanny wrote:
#15 zerojjc Apr 16, 2015 13:32:20	Just thought of something, after the first round of grapple is a success, on the second round if there is another enemy within reach couldn't i then use that second round to grapple the second enemy? Lets say if i maybe wanted to then walk/push them off a cliff, or into a fire, etc?
(Reply to #15) Danny_Montanny	zerojjc wrote:
#17 BRJN Apr 17, 2015 19:06:29	You can also do a pacifist monk - or any other melee artist, really - by declaring that you are using nonlethal attacks.  Mechanically nothing changes (beauty of 5e; compare 3e's to-hit penalty to do the same thing) but when your enemy reaches 0 HP he is "Unconscious for an hour" instead of "Dead".  Note that magic and ranged weapons do not have this same option.   I have an AL Monk2/Rogue1 and have found myself to be an effective Striker.  Contrasted to a Barbarian, you have to get used to the fact that you don't do the Hulk's one big hit; instead you give your enemy the death of a thousand paper cuts (plus a cardboard scrape with Sneak Attack) with lots of unarmed strikes.
(Reply to #16) zerojjc	Danny_Montanny wrote: